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  • AADD Moderators: swilow | Vagabond696

Australia: The new police state (Welcome to 1984)

m4dd0g said:
Ive never changed my opinions through politics or media.
They've changed gradually through interaction with the people who surround me.
You may not have (at least that you're consciously willing to admit), but I can assure you that the vast majority of people have been and will continue to be. Why do you think a Government can blatantly lie to the public and get away with it? Have you ever heard of the concept of propoganda? The Soviet Union was based on it.

m4dd0g said:
Polititians are motivated by the desire to capture the countries beliefs, they dont set them .. they are slaves more than we are.

Successful journalist are motivated by drama not content (cf. my rant yesterday).
What the hell does that mean? Life is not a conspiracy. People choose to become Journalists & Politicians the same reason people choose other professions. Because it appeals to them and maybe in some naive way they think they can change the world. I don't think Little Johnny woke up one morning and said "You know what? I want more power than anyone else in this country! I'm going to become a politician and install draconian new policing law to infringe on everyone's rights and make sure we all live in misery for the rest of our lives! mwahaha".
 
villz said:
Have you ever heard of the concept of propoganda?
Nup ... never heard of it ;)
I'm always curious about what nerve causes inflamitary comments, defending a meme?
Heard of memes? (legit Qn and extremely relevant)
A unit of cultural information, such as a cultural practice or idea, that is transmitted verbally or by repeated action from one mind to another.
Your stance on east timor is not a meme.
Your emotional reaction to pedophilia is a meme.
30 years of media or politics will not change that.

You are right tho, I just spoke in terms of myself (i dont watch the news).
Media/Politics does wear away slowly at your core beliefs.

villz said:
What the hell does that mean? Life is not a conspiracy.
LOL
My bad .. by 'capture the countries beliefs' I meant .. they research, study, and try to determine what the majority belief is so they can represent the largest group of voters. mwahaha :)

Do you think being evangelical about your beliefs (politics/media) can be contrary to them?
Its my opinion that people who are extreme/passionate about their views are generally the least rational
 
m4dd0g said:
Nup ... never heard of it ;)
I'm always curious about what nerve causes inflamitary comments, defending a meme?
Heard of memes? (legit Qn and extremely relevant)

Your stance on east timor is not a meme.
Your emotional reaction to pedophilia is a meme.
30 years of media or politics will not change that.
By that reasoning, it could be argued that you comment further above about homosexuality & the female vote should not have changed over 30 years of media and politics. Were/are they not units of cultural information (in terms of discrimination) as well? It certainly seems to me that discrimination is something passed down through generations. For that matter, a person's political stance may well be a meme as well, depending on when and how they formed it. Actually, what IS your point in the first paragraph... ;)

m4dd0g said:
LOL
My bad .. by 'capture the countries beliefs' I meant .. they research, study, and try to determine what the majority belief is so they can represent the largest group of voters. mwahaha :)
I know what you meant, just not what you "meant". Of course the science of politics is one of, if not the most, important part of a political party these days. What I don't understand is your comment that it IS the driving force behind politicians. These guys aren't motivated by the desire to influence the most amount of people or " desire to capture the countries beliefs" as you put it. They're motivated to change the country for what they perceive as the greater good. To do that they need to get elected, hence the need to appeal to the majority.

m4dd0g said:
Do you think being evangelical about your beliefs (politics/media) can be contrary to them?
Its my opinion that people who are extreme/passionate about their views are generally the least rational
No, I'm actually trying to change your belief system by posting this. Waxing lyrical about meme's and "inflamitary comments" (sic) is fine, but you haven't actually rebutted my initial points in the first place.

The words "kettle", "black" and "pot" spring to mind also... :)
 
I agree with you Villz which is why I'm doing a Diploma of Natural Resource Management rather than a Bachelor of Commerce like most of my friends.

The environment tops my list of things that I care about so therefore I'm dedicating my future to that direction.
 
villz said:
... Actually, what IS your point in the first paragraph... ;)

... but you haven't actually rebutted my initial points in the first place.

I was wondering if you had come across meme theory and how it works.
Propoganda is like meme control for preschoolers, its very temporary and usually explosive.
The theory explains how politicians, media, famous people, historical events, etc.. are the voice not the brain of cultural change :)

Rebuttal was never my intention; but it sounds kinda hot! :)

Unfortunately I cant see a provable way around our differing beliefs:
I dont think getting into media/politics will make a dent in cultural history due to meme theory and you think it will as media/politicians spread thier own beliefs instead of reflecting the masses.
Correct?

To sum up my pov:
More enforceable laws is bad as it restrects change.
If you are serious about your views the best way isnt to get into politics/media as meme theory states you become more of a victim than a catalyst in that role

I love being wrong .. it means Ive learnt something, but havnt read any new ideas here that would catalyse that belief change.
 
If anything, at least you've studied your Introduction to Sociology notes well... ;)

My point of view wasn't anything as in-depth as debating the mechanisms of Media in cultural change. I'm rather indifferent about the whole politics thing at the moment. Just a little frustrated at people wanking on about the evils of Howard that a) are just repeating what they've heard from friends so they seem cool or b) not having the motivation to do anything it, or both. That, and attempting to procrastinate from exam study... :)
 
villz said:
If 1% of the people who raved on about liberalisation of society and left wing politics were serious about what they believed in then we WOULD have a more balanced political landscape.
I'm not talking about going to rallies, attending lectures and printing posters to put on poles.
I'm talking about studying politics, becoming politicians, convincing people of your beliefs enough to get elected and then changing our society in line with those beliefs. I'm talking about studying law, joining the Unions and fighting the government legislation. Or studying journalism, and shaping the way the nation thinks through the media.
Too many people wank on about left-wing ideals in their younger days and then when they grow up and start a family they realise the IR reforms put in place by the government actually help them as small business owners, or they support the change in anti-terror laws to make the world safer for their children, or they realise they now have more in their weekly pay packet because of the GST & other economic reforms. Most of you are even too young to remember what being economic recession is like...

The point I'm trying to make is that if you're still SERIOUS about your beliefs against the way in which this country is run, after all things are considered, said and done, don't post on a drug forum, DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.

i do.

i am.

whilst i appreciate that you make a very valid point, in some ways you're kind of pandering to that apathy by writing off people's opinions like that: for all you know the great majority of people talking about these kind of things in this thread might be already doing something about it, so don't be so quick to write people off.
 
m4dd0g said:
Originally Posted by muzby
"if you are not doing anything wrong, why should it matter??"...


Because we need the law to evolve with society and not halt its progression.
It didnt use to be legal for gay sex, females to vote, etc...

Society changes, then its laws reflect it .. but if the law is so enforceable it prevents gradual change you end up with a backlash (cf. prohabition)

i'm not quite getting the point here?

so what you are saying is that a law to prevent terror should not be introduced, we should simply let society go down that path?
 
^ not being m4ddog, i can't be 100% sure, but i'd venture to say that he was referring to the capacity of the laws to detain and persecute those who speak up against the stance/actions made by the current government.

IMO this is regressive, as we live in a democracy, of which the ability of free speech is allegedly a cornerstone ---- therefore not being allowed to speak against it would constitute a turn for the worst, or preventing gradual change, as m4ddog put it. :)
 
onetwothreefour said:
i do.

i am.

whilst i appreciate that you make a very valid point, in some ways you're kind of pandering to that apathy by writing off people's opinions like that: for all you know the great majority of people talking about these kind of things in this thread might be already doing something about it, so don't be so quick to write people off.

You self centered fuck, he wasn't talking about you. You already moderate the forums, have some consideration for other people and give someone else a chance for a change

:p
 
thanks MP .. thats heaps better than what I was going to say:
"you know you are, you said you are, so what am I?"

damn gateway laws .. give the government one, they go nuts on the power and they start pushing the heavy stuff in no time.

btw, law enforcement = big group of fallible humans
the baby does fine with a plastic shovel, lets not give it a loaded shotgun plz :\

this thread sux, makes me look like i care :(
 
lostpunk5545 said:
What's even more scary is Beazley thinks the laws are not tough enough.

Wasn't there a time when the Labour Party was considered left wing?

ALP = Another Liberal Party. *sighs*
 
muzby said:
so what you are saying is that a law to prevent terror should not be introduced, we should simply let society go down that path?

a law to prevent terror should be passed and it should be dubbed "the make sure people who manufacture nike sportswear be given bathroom breaks and less than 12 hour shifts bill" =D

*note before responding, i'm not having a dig at muzby, that kid's alright*
 
villz said:
The point I'm trying to make is that if you're still SERIOUS about your beliefs against the way in which this country is run, after all things are considered, said and done, don't post on a drug forum, DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.
Well I'm not paying the taxes that support this fucked up system and I try hard to remove myself from the machinery of the state whenever reasonably possible.
What are you doing? Paying for laws you don't support while whinging at people who see the injustice in the relationship of the individual and the state? Some of us admit and stand against our own forced hypocrisy, and some of us just moan when someone points it out to them. Clear which side you stand.

Anarchy
 
MoeBro said:
You self centered fuck, he wasn't talking about you. You already moderate the forums, have some consideration for other people and give someone else a chance for a change

:p

i wasn't really talking about myself either; i just started my sentence that way. like i said, villz can't judge the OTHER PEOPLE in the thread.
 
SteveElektro said:
Well I'm not paying the taxes that support this fucked up system and I try hard to remove myself from the machinery of the state whenever reasonably possible.

Or you could work in say the public health system where you take far more from the government than what you give back in return in taxes (believe me it is fuck all!) and keep the soapbox too.
 
villz said:
The point I'm trying to make is that if you're still SERIOUS about your beliefs against the way in which this country is run, after all things are considered, said and done, don't post on a drug forum, DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.

2 Years into a BA. Majoring in International Relations & Political Science.

Got to understand the way the system works to fight it properly.

-plaz out-
 
villz said:
I don't think Little Johnny woke up one morning and said "You know what? I want more power than anyone else in this country! I'm going to become a politician and install draconian new policing law to infringe on everyone's rights and make sure we all live in misery for the rest of our lives! mwahaha".

you sure about that???
:\
 
get out your chalk and write diatribes on the concrete, because that's how the modern university student fights an oppressive government
 
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