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  • AADD Moderators: swilow | Vagabond696

[AUST] Higher and higher one day work shop 10th Feb -15 April 2007

Smile Police

Bluelighter
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Jun 21, 2000
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Hi guys if you every wanted to give up drugs but finding it hard or you have given up and are really struggling this work shop is for you.

I have read this Jost Sauer book and seen the DVD and I tell you its awesome and makes so much sense.

If want to continue the journey of getting higher and higher without drugs then this workshop will give you those answers.

Good luck hope you enjoy the work shop

jostii.jpg
 
This sounds great but I am moving it over to Aus Drug Discussion as it might get more or a response over there. Thanks
 
Sounds positive.. but I think I have a natural hatred for anything entitled "One Day Workshop".. this is simply a psudo-Tony Robins workshop with all the same "empowering slang",
Cutting edge workshop
And
new pathologies .... innovated techniques and ideas
8)

I don't know about you but I don't need to spend $100-150, or $275 listening to a group of ex-druggies - or worse just one - tell me about drugs, why they are bad and how to beat them!

Also, gotta love that irony of The Mother Earth organisation or whatever they are being total capitalists and charging a ridiculous amount of money to hear them ramble :\ Seems patronising to me..
 
I think you could do a whole lot worse than this guy if you're looking at addiction treatments with a religious bent.

His website and papers make for an interesting read, I liked "03. Don't talk to your Children about drugs" and "20. Ecstasy". It's good to hear about drugs from a different perspective even if the spirtuality side might not be your cup of tea.

From Number Three:

Giving your children mainstream drug education material is often not helpful either. This material is generally produced by non-drug users for non-drug users and, in drug culture, has absolutely no credibility

In general I found it pretty sound, if anyone goes it'd be good to hear your reports.
 
"In general I found it pretty sound" really? even the bit from 20 ecstasy about the heart and spleen? hmm, let me read it again
 
It's good to hear about drugs from a different perspective even if the spirtuality side might not be your cup of tea

Personally, I see great holes in this man's reasoning and perspective. We've always talked to our kids about drugs, and have an open dialogue where we are told what they think and we generally know before hand what they're up to - regardless of the activity. So far that has been fruitful and avoided any consequences to their health. I have no problems saying "don't take that, it's a bad one" and they listen. Why? Because we have talked about drugs openly for years and through our work in HR, they have seen first hand what some drugs can do.

What should be encouraged, is for parents to learn about drugs themselves, and I don't mean from a TV ad or newspaper article. I'm talking about real facts; read the survey results, learn the how drugs are made and the pharmacology - hey people are willing to learn what their medication may do to them, so why not drugs? - and in particular, generate discussion on their kids level, not solely from a "wiseman's" perspective.


The more I read Sauer's writings the less I'm convinced. Using examples from Taoism and recommending studying the laws of energy as applied to taoism, hinduism and the like is not the way to go IMO. This form of spirituality is nothing more than veiled religious doctrine. If the guy was speaking to scholars of eastern philosophy then maybe, but not to western based parents - and that's coming from someone who spent many years studying Taoism and Chinese thought. While his description of how drugs affect the body in relation to chinese medicine is as far as I can tell correct, comparing the two systems; chinese/western medicine is not as easy as he concludes.

Perhaps for some this is a plausible option to treating a drug problem, but in a world where we need to take more of a grasp of the facts of science and rational thought based on scientific findings, I find it to be just more of the same hyped up BS.

To me the concept stinks of capitalistic exploitation shrouded in eastern mysticism. Protection charms and spiritual books need to give way for a more factual based approach. While I hold many of the taoist writings in high regard, there's aspects of the philosophy that I don't agree with. If anyone thinks Taoism can't be interpreted as religion then read "The Jade Emperor's Court" chapter 6 of "Taoism; The Quest for Immortality" by John Blofeld.

If Taoist principles are to form the basis of such an educational course, then at the very least IMO these workshops should be offered for free and not conducted like a traveling show.

In the pursuit of learning, every day something is acquired.
In the pursuit of Tao, every day something is dropped.

Less and less is done.
Until non-action is achieved.
When nothing is done, nothing is undone.

The world is ruled by letting things take their course.
It cannot be ruled by interfering.

Lao Tzu
 
p_d
If Taoist principles are to form the basis of such an educational course, then at the very least IMO these workshops should be offered for free and not conducted like a travelling show.
So true^ A "Workshop" like this seems little more than the antithesis of an evangelical gathering - it has similar objectives, to fool the masses. He might be thinking he's spreading a positive, "enlightened" message but instead he's de-legitimising himself as a sell-out fraud, and worse making sceptics like me even more cynical about "spiritual" teachings.
 
"In the pursuit of learning, every day something is acquired.
In the pursuit of Tao, every day something is dropped.

Less and less is done.
Until non-action is achieved.
When nothing is done, nothing is undone.

The world is ruled by letting things take their course.
It cannot be ruled by interfering.

Lao Tzu"
A penny 4 your thoughts/interpretation on this quote p_d as your opinion is highly regarded here.
 
Well, I just lost a page of explanation somehow. Perhaps you're meant to solve it on your own ;)

I'm a bit busy this morning but I'll have another go at it when time allows.


In the meantime, you might like to read the meaning of wu wei
 
Firstly I would like to state that while many Taoist principles do hold in todays world, IMO some do not. At the very least these have to be broadly interpreted.

I mean this in the sense that unless you're single, live simply (close to nature) and have ample time to meditate, then the Tao may not apply well to your situation. At a time when I was able to live like this, Taoism seemed like a way to understand the world. It also seemed to provide plausible answers to some of the big questions and I found the basic principles to be in harmony with science.

I had studied and worked in electronics from the time I was 15 - fixing peoples radios and TV's, and building all manner of electronic projects, then later completing an apprenticeship and gaining high marks in electronics and electrical theory exams. But it wasn't until sometime after I began studying Tai Chi and Taoism at 24 that I felt I really knew this stuff. Something just clicked one day, and my ability to solve electronically related problems improved 100 fold. It's hard to explain, but electronic theory suddenly felt completely natural and very simple.


Anyway, I chose the above poem from the Tao Te Ching by Lao Tzu because I felt it was one of the more easy to interpret. It should also be realised that there are many English translations of the Tao, some of which appear contradictory. The version I prefer, and the one I took the 48th writing from, is by Jane English and Gia-Fu Feng.

It's often said that nothing in traditional Chinese thought is easy to grasp until you learn to relinquish your western ways of analysing the world. So, in the minds of the great masters, a true understanding of the Tao involves unlearning much of how we have been conditioned as children.

In the pursuit of learning, every day something is acquired.
In the pursuit of Tao, every day something is dropped.


The first two lines of the poem imply that conventional learning tools are no good for understanding the Tao. We pick up something and progress to learning something else by referring back to those things already learned. By this form of analytical reasoning, we can validate or question newly acquired knowledge. To better understand the Tao or the essence of nature, these tools don't suffice - you might learn a series of taoist principles, but to intrinsically understand and apply them is something else. So, by undoing the reasoning processes we all have, the essence of Tao becomes more revealed.


Less and less is done.
Until non-action is achieved.
When nothing is done, nothing is undone.


The second verse is fairly self explanatory; by doing less, less tends to be undone. An interesting physical manifestation of this can be seen in Tai Chi or the yogic arts. When first learning Tai Chi, the form is somewhat exaggerated; large sweeping movements, performed as pronounced expressions. To the outsider, a novice can appear superior to a grand master. As the student progresses however, the chi is manifested in shorter movements, although muscles, tendons etc are still fully exercised. As this is perfected, the movements are hardly noticed. I once knew a master who could stimulate his chi virtually without any physical movement. It made sounds like a grumbling stomach as the chi circulated around his Tan Tien (lower abdomen) and then his upper body.

From the point of view of the Taoist, as the unnecessary is reduced, realisation of Tao manifests. The wu wei or effortless effort (see link in my above post) is that most wondrous state of realisation; understanding through purely instinctive processes free of incremental or programmed reasoning. Being as unrestrained as a leaf in the wind, feeling one with nature and being free of ego - to accept [and move with] situations as they are.


The world is ruled by letting things take their course.
It cannot be ruled by interfering.


Many interpretations exist for the last verse and I believe it can be applied to many situations. I particularly like the interpretation mentioned in the World Peace version of the Tao Te Ching: Peace and harmony are sacrificed by manipulation

Hope that makes sense.
 
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