Bupe At Home Suboxone Rapid Detox (Plus Long term suboxone side effects)

[insidious]

In Ausralia; that is the policy, you cannot get prescribed less than 2mg, they force you to jump from 2mg to nothing. Of course, a lot of people stash away some to allow an easier transition, but plenty jump from 2mg. And yeah, it isn't pleasant, I wouldn't call it 'Hell' - it doesn't give you seizures or anything, but yeah, it's not fun and you feel pretty bad for about a month (I woke up in cold sweat - literally a puddle on my bed, drenching me) for nearly 5 weeks after I jumped from 2mg.. But, I still went to work during this time, sometimes you just gotta 'man up' and accept you did it to yourself, feel the pain and hope that it helps you not make the same poor decisions in the future.

This is still irrelevant, rapid taper or ct detox for that matter is waaay different than getting off suboxone maintenance after a year. The longer you stay on the worse/longer the withdrawals will be, bupe is nothing like heroin/oxy in that regard. Suboxone only comes in 2mg here in the US also, thats why they make the strips now. It has nothing to do with being able to, "Man up."

I wouldnt give out false info like that in a thread about maintenance, suboxone withdrawal is no joke after extended periods of time.

 

[insidious]

I have a general question regarding this rapid Detox thing: I always thought Buprenorphine could not be "countered" with Naloxone/Naltrexone due to its high affinity.

At least with Bupre ODs this seems to be the case. So how does this rapid method work?

Also I disagree with jumping off at 2mg without further tapering. It would be hell for me, I even had a very harsh WD from ~0,5mg/day so tapering down to sub-mg-doses should always be considered.

However great job OP, you got some balls. I'd never dare to do this.

I honestly have no idea, I have heard the same thing after reading on forums but I do not have a reputable source on the process. I know that it worked but I ended up having a bad reaction to the vivitrol shot. All I can say is that it was not a pleasant experience by any means.

 

[insidious]

I have some Xanax. And kramtom ? Will that help ?

Yes XANAX is perfect. I honestly have never done kratom, but whatever gets you through it.

 

[Usa51]

Started sub this morning. Dosed 2 mg. hour went by still felt like crap dosed another 4mg feeling much better. Took an adderqll too for little pep and ate nice breakfast all my vitamins and what not.

Ready to get better and be normal.

 

[adder]

I have a general question regarding this rapid Detox thing: I always thought Buprenorphine could not be "countered" with Naloxone/Naltrexone due to its high affinity.
At least with Bupre ODs this seems to be the case. So how does this rapid method work?

Naltrexone has a higher affinity to MOP receptors than buprenorphine does. According to this study naltrexone's affinity is 0.11 nM as opposed to buprenorphine's 0.21 nM, and naloxone's affinity is 0.66 nM. What's important here is that all drugs were tested in the same study under the same conditions. Clearly naltrexone binds more potently than buprenorphine. Rapid detox is supposed to shorten the duration of withdrawal, the major downside is the intensity of withdrawal symptoms is much increased. Often a patient is even put to sleep with an anaesthetic for the process of "detoxification", I'm actually amazed that a doctor decided to inject the OP with naltrexone outside the hospital and then sent him home with a script for pills. In extreme cases opioid withdrawal can be fatal and with rapid detox the severity of withdrawal is much stronger, so the danger increases. I can imagine the doctor may have made this decision because the OP was on a partial agonist but I still think this is unacceptable unless there were some studies done on rapid detox from buprenorphine and it turned out that it's much safer than with full agonists but I doubt that.

I really sympathize with you, insidious, however, I certainly don't agree that buprenorphine is not what it's cracked up to be. It's unfortunate that it stopped working for you so soon. I was addicted to full agonists for around 8 years before I started maintenance on Suboxone and I became an addict very early in my life as well. It kind of was a last resort for me as I had quit methadone 2 months earlier and the withdrawal from it was a never-ending horror for me, I could have never made it if it wasn't for marihuana. I was chain-smoking it all the time during my methadone withdrawal. I guess I was already experiencing the PAWS, having gone through the worst first 2 weeks, I experienced a very mild improvement but even after 2 months it was far from the end. I was first prescribed 400mg of tramadol a day to ease the withdrawal but it didn't work at all and even made some symptoms worse. When I was out of options, my psychiatrist offered me Suboxone maintenance. Even though I did criticise Suboxone in the past, I think it was one of the best decisions in my life and I'm really grateful to my doctor for all he's done for me. At the very beginning I felt very sick when my dose was raised to 4mg on the 3rd day (not sick like from withdrawal but sick like from too much buprenorphine) but when my body adjusted to the drug, in a manner of 2-3 weeks I increased my dose up to 8mg. I'm now sure I didn't need as much back then to feel all right but a higher dose provided a better antidepressant effect for me at the beginning. 2.5 years later it certainly doesn't work as good as it did during the first few months but I still often get pronounced opioid effects in the first few hours after dosing, sometimes it actually feels too sleepy for me, the downside now is that I need to dose it twice a day, otherwise it doesn't hold me for the whole day. I found out that 2 or even 3 lower doses work much better than the whole dose taken at once. Having already quit methadone and then a year later clonazepam, I definitely don't plan to stay on Suboxone for the rest of my life especially when I can already feel that its magic is slowly beginning to die out, but nonetheless I'm sure I've made the right decision in Nov 2012.

I hope things will now only get better for you. It does take some time for the opioid system to start working properly again after long-term opioid dependence but it looks like you're on the right way now. Cheers!

 

[insidious]

^ Best response yet. I am glad you posted that info which is in fact correct. What I read in a case study (that didnt specify the opiates rapidly detoxed from) anywhere from 1/500 to 1/1000 die from things like pulmonary embolism or hypertensive crisis; However the real threat is the anesthesia. I believe he sent me home because I was on a low dose, but as you know doctors are not always geniuses in regards to opiate withdrawal. Im sure no one has died from such a low dose.

In regards to the suboxone thing, that was just my personal experience. Some people actually do great on suboxone, I however am not one of them. I get allot of side effects after being on it for more than 6 months of using it.

 

[mostly-human]

This is still irrelevant, rapid taper or ct detox for that matter is waaay different than getting off suboxone maintenance after a year. The longer you stay on the worse/longer the withdrawals will be, bupe is nothing like heroin/oxy in that regard. Suboxone only comes in 2mg here in the US also, thats why they make the strips now. It has nothing to do with being able to, "Man up."

I wouldnt give out false info like that in a thread about maintenance, suboxone withdrawal is no joke after extended periods of time.

What are you talking about?

I'm talking about coming off (long term) maintenance and jump from 2mg to nothing (CT). And I did it myself, so I know what I am fucking talking about. Yeah, it's not fucking pleasant, but it's not going to fucking kill you either.

EDIT: Here is the post I made last time I came off suboxone maintenance, it's about a year ago. Unfortunately it didn't stick (I eventually relapsed). I doubt you'll bother opening it, since you couldn't even follow what I was saying on here (is it that hard to tell when I'm talking about rapid-taper/detox and when I'm talking about jumping off maintenance ? Surely it's not that difficult to follow). But just so you know I'm not just talking out my ass, or if I am, I am playing a very long game by setting myself up over a year ago on here, just to deride you.

http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads/713909-Coming-off-Suboxone-(buprenorphine)-a-POSITIVE-story


And btw: I was never talking about taking something like naltraxone after long-term maintenance, I've had 'narcan' enough to understand the hell of PWDs. So I'm sorry if I came across as suggesting taking naltraxone after long-term sub maintenance would be easy. I just mean going from 2mg to nothing, is quite doable, if unpleasant. I can completely appreciate that going from 2mg to a shot of naltraxone would be fucking awful.

That said - mileage probably varies, I have a friend, who was on long-term methadone and then waited about 4 days and switched to a naltraxone implant and suffered nearly no ill effects, I couldn't believe it. But the same guy could also abuse xanax (10mg+/day) for months at a time and then quite CT and hardly suffer at all. So I guess everyone is different.

 

[insidious]

What are you talking about?

I'm talking about coming off (long term) maintenance and jump from 2mg to nothing (CT). And I did it myself, so I know what I am fucking talking about. Yeah, it's not fucking pleasant, but it's not going to fucking kill you either.

EDIT: Here is the post I made last time I came off suboxone maintenance, it's about a year ago. Unfortunately it didn't stick (I eventually relapsed). I doubt you'll bother opening it, since you couldn't even follow what I was saying on here (is it that hard to tell when I'm talking about rapid-taper/detox and when I'm talking about jumping off maintenance ? Surely it's not that difficult to follow). But just so you know I'm not just talking out my ass, or if I am, I am playing a very long game by setting myself up over a year ago on here, just to deride you.

http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads/713909-Coming-off-Suboxone-(buprenorphine)-a-POSITIVE-story


And btw: I was never talking about taking something like naltraxone after long-term maintenance, I've had 'narcan' enough to understand the hell of PWDs. So I'm sorry if I came across as suggesting taking naltraxone after long-term sub maintenance would be easy. I just mean going from 2mg to nothing, is quite doable, if unpleasant. I can completely appreciate that going from 2mg to a shot of naltraxone would be fucking awful.

That said - mileage probably varies, I have a friend, who was on long-term methadone and then waited about 4 days and switched to a naltraxone implant and suffered nearly no ill effects, I couldn't believe it. But the same guy could also abuse xanax (10mg+/day) for months at a time and then quite CT and hardly suffer at all. So I guess everyone is different.

I agree with most of what you said it was just the, "Man up" part that bothered me when it had nothing to do with the thread. As for jumping off at 2mg, there are plenty of threads about people tapering all the way down to small increments like .25 or even less. So you might actually not be human. I am not an advocate for the taper method it's just way too drawn out and risky, in regards to relapse.

 

[mostly-human]

I agree with most of what you said it was just the, "Man up" part that bothered me when it had nothing to do with the thread. As for jumping off at 2mg, there are plenty of threads about people tapering all the way down to small increments like .25 or even less. So you might actually not be human. I am not an advocate for the taper method it's just way too drawn out and risky, in regards to relapse.

Yeah - I take your point and criticism of my terminology. The reason I used such language is just simply that I think we (opiate addicts and addicts in general) sometimes tend to suffer a certain victim complex, and I think sometimes we give ourselves far too many 'outs' when really, we just need to toughen up and take action.

 

[insidious]

I agree... I was just sharing my experience because the method my doctor used is not exactly orthodox, I wasn't looking for an argument. Furthermore I think that many addicts are martyrs (Like you said), but addiction isnt exactly an easy life choice. I personally believe addiction is a choice to a certain degree, I think our brain chemistry is different but that doesn't mean the "disease" concept should be used as a cop out. Its all about action, like you said.

Im glad you took the time to clarify, because you are obviously not looking for an altercation.

 

[insidious]

In Ausralia; that is the policy, you cannot get prescribed less than 2mg, they force you to jump from 2mg to nothing. Of course, a lot of people stash away some to allow an easier transition, but plenty jump from 2mg. And yeah, it isn't pleasant, I wouldn't call it 'Hell' - it doesn't give you seizures or anything, but yeah, it's not fun and you feel pretty bad for about a month (I woke up in cold sweat - literally a puddle on my bed, drenching me) for nearly 5 weeks after I jumped from 2mg.. But, I still went to work during this time, sometimes you just gotta 'man up' and accept you did it to yourself, feel the pain and hope that it helps you not make the same poor decisions in the future.

I did misread this post by the way... I thought you said you were on suboxone for 5 weeks. So I understand the confusion on your part lol.

 

[mostly-human]

I agree... I was just sharing my experience because the method my doctor used is not exactly orthodox, I wasn't looking for an argument. Furthermore I think that many addicts are martyrs (Like you said), but addiction isnt exactly an easy life choice. I personally believe addiction is a choice to a certain degree, I think our brain chemistry is different but that doesn't mean the "disease" concept should be used as a cop out. Its all about action, like you said.

Yeah - addiction is a strange beast. I completely agree - it's not an easy life choice, but it is a choice, to an extent - I mean, despite any chemistry that is influencing the choice, the choice is being made - even if we're highly susceptible to making the choice. As an addict myself, I don't by any means judge addicts harshly in that sense, but I am careful not to adopt a victim mentality either.

I think when it comes to mental health in general, as well as addiction specifically, we have a long way to go in understanding it, treating it, relating to it and being aware of what it means to ourselves as addicts. Addiction is very strange. Conflicting - and fills one with cognitive dissonance.

Im glad you took the time to clarify, because you are obviously not looking for an altercation.

Thank you, you too, it's good to actually reason something out with someone, get past the miscommunication and find some mutual ground. It's rare sometimes on the Internet.

 

[METESKY]

Hey, first time posting here. I actually came here because I was looking for info on doing a Suboxone taper. I'm in my third day, doing 12mg today, down from 24mg a day. I've been doing 24mg a day for five years. Ten years of morphine and dilaudids before that. First got off on smack in ‘68. I'm permanent due to a degenerative disease that's attacking my nervous system. I'll be on something till I die.

You know, it's odd but I never felt high on the Suboxone. I felt more normal than I had for many years. For a number of reasons I wanted to get off the Suboxone, probably go back on the morphine with dilaudids to cover then sane pain moments that happen every day. But because of how I felt about the Suboxone I figured that detox would be a snap... figured a nine days tapering down ought to do nicely.

Then I came here yesterday! Shit! Double shit!

I've only been noticing any WD symptoms for the past few hours, and they're mild. In the past 45 years or so I've kicked more times than I could count. No problem. Always worked a plan, made it through alive. ;-) Now I'm beginning to wonder if I've underestimated this process. I go back to the doc's on Friday to get set up with my new script.

So, my new friends and colleagues, do you have any suggestions for me? I don't have much in the way of helpers except for Clonazepam and Promethazine. Will they be of any assistance?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

God bless y'all.

 

[ShiningStar]

lethal combination!! Not a joke and not a way out!!!

Yeah, but now that its over I don't regret it. Slow taper from suboxone is a slippery slope. At least with an antagonist you can't get high and you are forced to stick it through. I just recommend a hospital setting for anyone else with the audacity to try rapid detox.

Wow! I had experience with being very high on heroin and took Revia(naltrexone)crushed tablet in my juice. I didnt know it was there, just my mother wanted to check if im not using again. That started from burning in stomach and going every organ, every thousand corners of every bones and skin hurt so bad just because clothes are touching it. Honestly at that moment i could fully understand the meaning of <burning in hell>and i would not offer that for my worst enemy!!! My body was on the bed , i was holding on the metal railing with my arms up and the rest of body was jumping up like being electro shocked with those things in hospital. Having a gun would seem like an easy way out - no doubt about that! Even in my worst heroin wd i never had a thought about that. Ambulance ride i remember that i was knocking my head on the metal wall parts to redirect the pain to somewhere else... The tied me up completely in hospital so much i my body was jumping. Said that hardly saved me. This is a lethal combination to take an antidote. Plus suboxone stays a lot longer in the system than heroin and if you havent noticed its a lot harder to do cold turkey from sub.than from heroin. Heroin will make you sick 3-5days and you keep getting better each day. Subutex, if you been long time on it, will keep you sick for a month if not more! I dont understand what kind of doctors put people on it for years and even life. I have a good system for myself and many people i see do it to get off heroin. It works brilliantly. Take subutex 3 days. First and second day same dose and third day a bit less. Of course being on high dose first day its not helping like a fix, but second day its better already. (can take up to 5days if you lower it down, not to get addicted). It rushed out the heroin faster and gives you a background of familiar feelin of a fix, which is so important for the first days of new start. There is no one that died from this method, only cutting it off after 3days is a risk you go back to H. Need a safe place or a change of place and some help if you really want to stop. 4th day without subutex may get a feeling of tiredness, weakness and missing something, but no, you wont be sick at all!! And i wont believe otherwise!! I see so many people do it 3days and stop and they were all fine. But mixing sub with naltrexone is a suicide. I would sue that doctor because there is alot of lethal outcomes from that. Subutex stays in your body 32 hours, and heroin 6-12hours, so even taking an antidote to get rid off sub.addiction is even worse than a lethal heroin-naltrexone combination. You was very lucky to survive. Never do it AGAIN!!! 2 time may be too much for your body to handle.

 

[ShiningStar]

I once went to hospital for a nomal 5 day detox, where they give you pills and wash your blood, so you come out clean and then can decide if you want a naltrexone imlpant or tablets or just do whatever you want again. So Dr.narcologist offered to me to participate in his recent study, which basically means to be his experiment rabbit. (He said i can choose the ordinarydetox, or the fast one,which was that study) So the idea was how to make an opiod addicted person go from opiates to naltrexon in 5 hours! Idea was good and interesting, if i hadnt done it on my own body. They put you in hospital after using heroin, 2days they keep giving you morfine shots in the ass muscle, so you feel the same, no WD, 3day is operation day. They come and bring you in for operation in a room full of machines ect. Pur you to sleep on a full body narcose! And then start injecting you with antidote, naltrexon! Basically the same thing your body goes thru as in your storu INSIDIOUS, but in your sleep, under full control of operating doctors. So you dont know it untill you wake up after five hours or so. I dont remember but mom said they come visit and my body was still jumping up like hell in my sleep the next night after op. Off course they sedate you more when you wake up, because i dont remember nothing. Just next day i was ready for an implant of more naltrexone. And next 2weeks was dreadfull i had studies and 2jobs after, i could hardly reach the job place. Fall in the chair and try to breathe, Legs like wooden, no energy at all, like it was all sucked out. That study never got trough, it was not accepted and i was not happy to be a rabbit after all.

 

[ShiningStar]

Fast Antidote forced detox - never approved

8sus:

I once went to hospital for a nomal 5 day detox, where they give you pills and wash your blood, so you come out clean and then can decide if you want a naltrexone imlpant or tablets or just do whatever you want again. So Dr.narcologist offered to me to participate in his recent study, which basically means to be his experiment rabbit. (He said i can choose the ordinarydetox, or the fast one,which was that study) So the idea was how to make an opiod addicted person go from opiates to naltrexon in 5 hours! Idea was good and interesting, if i hadnt done it on my own body. They put you in hospital after using heroin, 2days they keep giving you morfine shots in the ass muscle, so you feel the same, no WD, 3day is operation day. They come and bring you in for operation in a room full of machines ect. Pur you to sleep on a full body narcose! And then start injecting you with antidote, naltrexon! Basically the same thing your body goes thru as in your storu INSIDIOUS, but in your sleep, under full control of operating doctors. So you dont know it untill you wake up after five hours or so. I dont remember but mom said they come visit and my body was still jumping up like hell in my sleep the next night after op. Off course they sedate you more when you wake up, because i dont remember nothing. Just next day i was ready for an implant of more naltrexone. And next 2weeks was dreadfull i had studies and 2jobs after, i could hardly reach the job place. Fall in the chair and try to breathe, Legs like wooden, no energy at all, like it was all sucked out. That study never got trough, it was not accepted and i was not happy to be a rabbit after all.

 

[antman25]

Does Anybody know about the naltrexone implant?

 

[kleinerkiffer]

Does Anybody know about the naltrexone implant?

Wrong thread..
You should check out Sober Living