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arylcyclohexylamines neurotoxicity recovery

hydroazuanacaine

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May 17, 2007
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i found this class of drugs and have had with fun with them for a bit. if i were to stop, does the brain recover? i tried googling and couldn't find much. there's no way i'll never use again, but if went years without does science show that the brain recovers? because despite all the beauty these drugs offer, they are neurotoxic.

i've used ...

.5g k (comforting)
.5g 2fdck (less wild but even more more comforting)
.75g 3-meo-pce (let me kiss angels once i found out how to use it right, my favorite)
.5g probably less of mxpr (taught me a lot but to hard on organs. by far the most extreme and least recreational)

i know this post is selfish. people still use these drugs and i totally understand why. i want to know when we each decide to move on how much our brains will recover. and again, i'm not trying to put any shame on people who still use these drugs because they are so beautiful. like i said, there's no way i can never use 3-meo-pce again. it's the closest thing to grace i've ever encountered. i can't believe how beautiful it feels. opiates were good; dissos are divine (or give the appearance of being).

thanks
 

hydroazuanacaine

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i don't know that i have. because i've used neurotoxic drugs? i am not saying to a significant degree.

i do know that when i close my eyes i don't see darkness anymore. instead i see other worlds. i figure that is acute and could be related to other mental illness, though likely triggered by the dissos.
 

PYTH

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I don't think the research is really there, in some of the animal studies showing neurotoxic effects they really hammer the test subjects with high doses in short time periods. Certainly many folks use high doses daily but I haven't seen much research on other usage patterns. My anecdotal experience from moderate binge use is that decent recovery of psychological symptoms like paranoia, being over-attuned to synchronicity, visual effects, memory, and cognitive decline is possible by diet, exercise, other supplementation / psychoactives, and, most importantly, time off. That's not to say there won't be other complications later in life, such as an increased risk of alzheimer's, etc. The most worrying side-effect I've noticed which I haven't been able to fully come to terms with is a seemingly permanent erasing & dulling of past memory.

I've tried to juggle psilocybin/LSD microdosing, racetams, ALCAR and other misc. stuff... they definitely significantly help but if overdone you have to watch out for other sides like mania, etc. The best I ever felt was after a four or five month break experimenting with the above regime, however slipping back into an even monthly habit vanished many of the gains.
 

hydroazuanacaine

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May 17, 2007
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the benzos will give me alzheimer's. serotonin psychs are were cool. then i found opiates and benzos and forgot about them. after benzos and opiates revealed themselves as a drain, i reconsidered psychs. that's when i got introduced to dissos. once i saw the angels, serotonin psychs were out of the picture again.

i swear to god i've kissed an angel. almost as good as kissing alex over 10 years ago on new years when she was rolling and her mouth tasted like ring pop. same thing. alex moved on. those angels are still waiting for me. signing their song. luring me into the sharp rocks. i kinda wanna sink.
 

Cream Gravy?

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I just wanted to ask what makes you think benzos “give” you Alzheimer’s? I’ve researched the subject heavily as I’m gonna be on them for life most likely, and there are a lot of factors that contribute towards the risk for Alzheimer’s, and no study has conclusively shown that BZDs cause it. They can be associated with it but... just being white instead of black can make you less at risk. Reading books and doing sudoku in your old years can reduce chance. Exercise can reduce it. People who eat Mediterranean diets are less prone to it (probably the fish oil). So basically I’ve altered my lifestyle to do all those things and my memory seems to be holding.

OT: Yeah, I don’t think dissos are neurotoxic. Olney’s Lessions has been proven wrong just like the MDMA puts holes in your brain lies have been proven wrong. Like the guy prior said, in studies that support you thinking it’s neurotoxic, they inject heavy ass doses into those poor rats. You shoot a gram of ket into a person there’s bound to be repercussions

I think, and I mean this in the most loving way possible hydro <3, that you just need a break from them. They seem to be having a profound effect on your life right now, and whether that’s positive or not, I do not know.

If it helps, I don’t see darkness behind my eyelids anymore either. Always color and chaos. Maybe it just comes with the territory.
 

Vastness

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Yeah, I'm not sure there's much evidence to suggest arylcyclohexylamines on their own are neurotoxic, although personally I don't believe they are entirely benign either, especially with the heavier, prolonged sessions most dissociative fans like to indulge in.

The primary danger is when they are combined with other drugs, particularly stimulants, there's a pretty cool study somewhere where they scanned the brains of a range of polydrug users who combined ketamine with other drugs on a regular basis, and pretty much all of them showed what you could call "minor brain damage", obvious structural changes and shrinkage of various brain regions.

I can't remember offhand if there were any test subjects who didn't combine with anything, I think there might have been one but I could be wrong about that... either way though I think he had used fairly heavily for a while, I'll have to dig it up when I'm not on my phone.

But anyway, even the lightest users studied showed measurable changes in brain structure, so Olney's lesions or not, arylcyclohexylamines cannot be said to be entirely safe, neurologically. That said, I would expect most minor damage to be far more reversible that the kind of toxicity induced by abuse of stimulants, for example.
 

PYTH

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Yeah, I often get wicked day or two long ketamine hangovers that feel a lot like binge drinking hangovers, minus the dehydration. That can't possibly be good. Neither is binge drinking. If I'm co-administering with high dose tryptamines I can eliminate most negative after-effects... but that's a different trip ;)
 

Hexagon Sun

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Yeah, I dont think, a priori, are neurotoxic.

But bladder and kidney toxic, hell yeah, there´s a ton of evidence suggesting that. So better space all the takes, go for lighter doses and try to use better the potent ones (3-meos>than K) as your body needs to process less amount.

Take all this info with a grain of salt, as it could be that K is safer than 3-meos, for example, as we are moving in a pretty speculative territories yet

I love my dissos as well. I haven´t kissed angels but similarly impposible to conceive things while in the zone.

Im positive in future we will learn how to get the most of the disso space without damaging our precious bodies. In the meanwhile stay safe, space the doses and use the minimum quantities that you can
 

sekio

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I've used way too many arylcyclohexylamines and have no complaints, in fact two CT scans I had done years ago at the peak of my dissociative use were utterly unremarkeable.

So my answer is yes, if you cease use you will probably be fine. In fact if you continue to use dissociatives infreuently you will also be fine, in my books.
 

hydroazuanacaine

bluelighter
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I just wanted to ask what makes you think benzos “give” you Alzheimer’s?
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6325366/
i know dementia is a symptom of alzhimer's, but there's a strong connection between the two. there are also lots of studies specifically about alzhimer's. i picked this one because it's a meta-analysis including many of those studies and is on the first page of google results. the comment was offhand, sorry. in the citations there are plenty of studies that say it's not conclusive that long-term benzo use increases the risk. it isn't something i pulled out of the air either; they suspect and are looking into it. i too use benzos dailey and have more more have for most of my life. doesn't mean i think it's healthy.

i agree, i do need to cut back on disso use. no doubt.

interesting that you don't see darkness when you close your eyes either. do you like it? i do not. i wish it was dark when i closed my eyes. i hope that once i cut back on dissos that it will be dark when i close my eyes again. i don't see colors and chaos, but clear images. those images often disturb and or confuse me. mostly confuse me, because when i open my eyes and am somewhere else it shocks me. i do not even know that the two are connected. the timing matches up; that doesn't prove anything.

there is evidence to suggest arylcyclohexylamines are neurotoxic. is it conclusive? no. research almost never is. the possibility is there.

i suppose i shouldn't worry so much about what can and can't be undone and focus on my future behavior. which again, i agree should involve less disso use. easier said than done. the only reason i haven't used today is because i'm out of sterile water packs and the needle exchange bus is far away today. i will work on it. i will.

i appreciate all the replies.

I haven´t kissed angels
it's wonderful. they're quite good kissers.
 
Last edited:

Cream Gravy?

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I think my “colors and chaos” is basically just HPPD from tripping well over 100 times and smoking weed all my adult life. I don’t mind it at all. I used to enjoy sitting around my old college campus and staring at OEVs while totally sober. I love popcorn ceilings lol. But I imagine if I saw formed imagery it might bother me too.

In regards to benzos, yeah, they might contribute, they might not. I have no choice in the matter so I just try to address other known causes of Alzheimer’s. If I didn’t need them for GI pain I wouldn’t allow myself to use them daily like I do.

And yeah, maybe ACHs do do some changing of the brain, maybe there is damage. Idk. Since nothing definitive is known I just don’t worry about it. I also don’t use them very often, it’s been years since I last did anything but nitrous. But I did have a year with weekly (sometimes more frequent) MXE use and I don’t feel any worse off for it. I plan to use MXE in the future and other ACHs as well. Until someone can prove it’s actually THAT bad for me, I’ll keep using them.

So I guess I’m saying, don’t worry, be happy? No sense in worrying about something you can’t change. I regret my abuse of alcohol more than any of my otter drugs of abuse. I know for a fact I’ve lost some of my brain to booze. And 25i-nbome... I still have frequent headaches even many years after my 4 uses of the drug. Now that’s an evil drug...

Take care hydro, be safe, and try not to worry so. You’ll be okay <3
 
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