Opioids Are my Hydromorphones/Hydrocodones weak from being expired, or do I naturally have a high opioid tolerance(relatively opioid naive)?

[Hc77]

Just a little about me and my experience with opioids in general: Ive dabbled very rarely with opiates here and there, have taken a few blues here and there, as well as some norco's/hydromorphones over the past 5-6 years (and by that I mean, very randomly, maybe 5-6 times a year at most) and I seemed to always feel like despite my rare usage, a 30mg roxi DEFINITELY should have done more to fuck me up the handful of times Ive taken them. I remember being prescribed and taking 5-10mg of hydro for various surgeries when I was younger and generally didnt understand why people took them because I didnt feel much at all from them despite having absolutely zero experience with any opiate or opioid back then.

Flash forward to today and Ive been taking Kratom fairly regularly over the past 2 or so years (just for pain and anxiety) but not in any crazy high dosages, and whilst I know there is cross tolerance that can develop...Im a bit surprised at the effects(or lack there of) I had with some opioids Ive used recently.

I happened to find a bunch of old scripts that belonged to me or my brother, and father(from when he was in palliative care years ago) which consist of a relatively small amount of 5mgHydrocodone w/ APAP, 5-7.5mgHydro w/ Ibuprofen, Codeine+tylenol, and 4mg IR Hydromorphone. With the Hydro w/ Ibuprofen and Hydromorphone being the most "recent" of scripts and only being around 3+ years old. The other scripts ranging from being filled in 2005-2012...so quite old. All have been stored very far from any moisture or light.

(Note: Havent taken any "real" opioid in probably over a year for context, and whilst I take Kratom daily at very modest dosages, I made sure to refrain from dosing any kratom for anywhere between 8-12+ hours before ingesting any of these pills)
So far Ive tried taking 2 of the 7.5mg Hydro w/ Ibuprofen's (3+ years old script), and all it did was at best just make me tired, fairly disappointed there.
Ive also tried snorting 4mg of the Hydromorphone(theyre the small yellow pills, ideal for snorting) followed by another 4mg roughly 30-45 min later just to be "safe" and kind of access where my tolerance is at and I was relatively disappointed there as well, definitely no where near as strong of euphoria or effect as the last time I snorted them 3-4 years ago.
Following that, today I decided to try snorting 8mg, and then another 4mg about 30 min later. Again, minimal euphoria, just some reduction in anxiety mainly and DEFINITELY not what I was expecting given the fact that should be a pretty solid dose for someone who doesnt regularly use prescription opioids.

So mainly im asking
1. Could my relatively light but regular kratom use (and despite not dosing any for 10+ hours before the Hydro's) actually have created such a significant tolerance that 12mg of hydromorphone snorted over 30-45 minutes felt rather disappointing and "weak"? Or could the pills actually lost a lot of potency? And/or could I also just generally have a naturally high tolerance to begin with?
2. Regarding the Hydro w/APAP and other pills that date back to between 2005 and 2012 that I havent taken yet, are they still fine to take? I understand expiration dates have more to do with potency, but 15 years is still quite a long time and im not sure what to expect there.
3. What should I do with the remaining pills (dont really want to boof anything, and IV is definitely not a path im willing to try going down right now) to get better effect out of them? Snort more Hydromorphone at once? Combine taking the hydrocodone orally, with snorting some of the hydromorphones?

Much appreciated, probably been lurking on this site since I was a teenager, but this is the first time I really needed some advice on harm reduction.

 

[tarman]

If you're taking kratom on a regular basis, then that most definitely has had a major impact. It may not make sense intuitively, but kratom may have altered some interrelated neuronal systems (like those kappa receptors or whatever), so that maybe your mu receptor response is dampened. However, if you were in kratom withdrawal, the hydromorphones should've felt good at 8mg.

How much kratom were you throwing back a day? There's probably something else going on, but my vote is the kratom has altered your brain's response to traditional opioids.

 

[supersonic89]

Yeah It's definitely the kratom. That thing seems to screw up any opioid tolerance. Its for the same reason that I refuse to try it.

 

[Hc77]

If you're taking kratom on a regular basis, then that most definitely has had a major impact. It may not make sense intuitively, but kratom may have altered some interrelated neuronal systems (like those kappa receptors or whatever), so that maybe your mu receptor response is dampened. However, if you were in kratom withdrawal, the hydromorphones should've felt good at 8mg.

How much kratom were you throwing back a day? There's probably something else going on, but my vote is the kratom has altered your brain's response to traditional opioids.

I assumed there was some interaction going on with the Kratom similar to what youre describing, but being that it only has a partial effect on the receptor and it being a relatively weak opioid(not opiate) I figured thered be no way it could have a significant impact on something as strong as hydromorphone but..I suppose Ill abstain from dosing any for a few days and see how much of an effect it has. Generally take 4g doses 3-4 times per day of plain leaf, which certainly isnt much compared to some peoples doses. I just figured that given how long its been since I took ANY form of actual strong opiate that the pills should have a greater kick.
Even before I was using Kratom on a regular basis, I remember Id be able to go take 30mg of roxi every once and a while(few friends were a lot more regular users) and Id definitely feel it but it never felt overwhelming at all and Id even take up to 45mg, which I know can definitely fuck up people who used opiates on a far, far more regular basis than my random once and a while use.

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

I find it hard to believe myself that any amount of kratom would alter your tolerance substantially. I have never been able to achieve any sort of opiate-effect from any brand of kratom whatsoever.

I'm not exactly sure what's going on in your case, but I thought I'd mention that most meds don't really expire. It's just a gimmick to get people to throw out their meds or buy new ones. Unless they are subjected to extreme heat or light then they should not have lost much potency.

I was once given 4 year old tramadol pills that had been through god knows what, but they still worked like they were brand new.

The only medications that would really expire are antibiotics and possible liquid drugs.

Do you feel an opiate effect from kratom? If so, then maybe, just maybe, it did raise your tolerance a bit.
Drugs from 2005 very well may have a reduction in potency though, especially if they've been through lots of temp changes or had any moisture soak into them.
Not sure. Or you possibly do have a natural high tolerance, but if you did, I can't imagine you would feel much from kratom either.

Did you ever decide what to do with the rest?