Misc Anyone know anything about bromantane?

[Mycophile]

Ok so I know I'm just asking this question again which I've asked before and that most likely no one knows the answer but I'm going to ask again.

I just ordered some Bromantane (Ladastan) and I'm wondering if anyone thinks that this will interact badly with Lexapro??


Obviously this is a relatively unknown Russian nootropic but from what very little I've read it seems to act mostly on Dopamine and not as much on Serotonin, although Wikipedia did say that it might possibly also have some Serotonin Reuptake action.

I want to try this stuff when it comes, but I don't think anyone is going to be able to tell me whether or not such an obscure chemical might interact badly with Lexapro.

So I'm just throwing this out there to see if I can get some more guesses as to whether or not this combo might be safe or not.

Obviously I shouldn't do anything based on the guesses and assumptions of strangers, and I'm not saying that I will, but I'm just trying to do what very little research is possible.

Any answers would be appreciated.

 

[Slow_Mobius]

From whatbive read, it's theorized to affect gene regulation. That's going to make it especially difficult to predict how it might interact with other drugs. I'm interested in how it might interact with DNA

 

[Bluuberry]

Bro man, tane!? I heard bad shit about 'tane, bro man.

I'm sorry, I just couldn't resist.

 

[Mycophile]

From whatbive read, it's theorized to affect gene regulation. That's going to make it especially difficult to predict how it might interact with other drugs. I'm interested in how it might interact with DNA

What does that mean that it might effect "gene regulation"??

How might it effect DNA??

I mean I only bought 50 doses so even if I take them all I don't see how that could leave a permanent effect on me.

Are you saying this shit could alter the structure of my entire being if I take it?!?!!

I honestly don't know exactly what you mean when you say "alters DNA" but that sounds kind of scary so please get back to me on that one lol...

 

[Mycophile]

A poster from Reddit pointed to this quote from Wikipedia which he thought SEEMS to indicate that normal doses of Bromantane would PROBABLY not very strongly effect serotonin in the bolded part so I was interested if anyone else understood this to mean the same thing:


[h=3]"Monoamine reuptake inhibition[edit][/h]Originally, bromantane was thought to act as a reuptake inhibitor of serotonin and dopamine.^[4][25][34] Indeed, bromantane does inhibit the reuptake of serotonin, dopamine, and to a lesser extent norepinephrine in vitro in rat brain tissue.^[25][34] However, the concentrations required to do so are extremely high (50–500 µM) and likely not clinically relevant.^[25][34] (Although one study found an IC₅₀ for dopamine transport of 3.56 µM, relative to 28.66 nM for mesocarb; neither drug affected serotonin transport at the tested concentrations, in contrast.)^[30] In any case, the lack of typical psychostimulant-like effects and adverse effects seen with bromantane supports the notion that it is not acting significantly as a monoamine reuptake inhibitor, but rather via enhancement of dopamine synthesis."

 

[kleinerkiffer]

What does that mean that it might effect "gene regulation"??

How might it effect DNA??

I mean I only bought 50 doses so even if I take them all I don't see how that could leave a permanent effect on me.

Are you saying this shit could alter the structure of my entire being if I take it?!?!!

I honestly don't know exactly what you mean when you say "alters DNA" but that sounds kind of scary so please get back to me on that one lol...

From what I've read it'll alter the expression of different genes, including dopamine receptor genes
The mechanism isn't know afaik but it may interact with receports we don't know yet.

 

[Mycophile]

From what I've read it'll alter the expression of different genes, including dopamine receptor genes
The mechanism isn't know afaik but it may interact with receports we don't know yet.

Ok, so I still don't understand what that means, so let me ask you to please translate this into simpleton talk lol:

The safety profile on the site reads like the shit is nearly harmless and it's been tested on olympic athletes, but then again, someone was probably paid to write that.

I wish there was someone I could talk to who had combined Bromantane with an SSRI safely...


Does that likely mean that experimenting LIGHTLY with a few pills of Bromantane here and there is going to be a considerably dangerous activity that could have any kind of serious or long term effect???

If it is likely to do that I won't, however, I tend to usually assume the dose makes the poison so would I not be somewhat likely to be ok just VERY slowly testing the waters with single doses of the stuff, or is that dangerous??

 

[bakeryrogercow]

No one knows the exact answers. There is limited published data on DDI. You could always start with sub doses.

 

[kleinerkiffer]

What I meant to say is that bromantabe could cause more for example dopamine receptors to be build, so you have more dopamine receptors than you'd normally have, meaning that more receptors can be activated -> bigger response

 

[mike.vick]

^^^ I believe if more dopamine receptors were built that would be a negative, like it is with opiate receptors, because they would be upregulated, and more dopamine molecules would be needed to fill the receptors. .. Either way, if there is an involvement in genomics sounds, this sounds very dangers.

 

[Mycophile]

What I meant to say is that bromantabe could cause more for example dopamine receptors to be build, so you have more dopamine receptors than you'd normally have, meaning that more receptors can be activated -> bigger response

Are you of the opinion that this would be a very dangerous drug to experiment with and that if you were me you wouldn't take it??

I do know that it is approved for usage in Russia and was tested on Russian athletes in 1996 and shown to have very few side effects and they consider it to be a very safe substance.

Please let me know what you think as it will help me decide if this is a bad idea or not.

 

[Mycophile]

^^^ I believe if more dopamine receptors were built that would be a negative, like it is with opiate receptors, because they would be upregulated, and more dopamine molecules would be needed to fill the receptors. .. Either way, if there is an involvement in genomics sounds, this sounds very dangers.

So do you mean it sounds to you like it would PERMANENTLY alter my brain even if I only took one single dose?!?!!

As I mentioned above, this drug has been approved, I think for prescription usage, in Russia, probably much the same way as Phenibut has, and has been studied and tested on Olympic athletes in 1996 and said to be very safe by them.

On Reddit I talked to a few users who said they took it and felt fine with no noticeable side effects.

However, I want to be safe as well.

This is the hard thing cause for me I get very curious but I don't want to fuck myself up.

It's just that the very long list (you can see it where I posted it earlier in this thread) about how safe it is and how it was tested and everything makes me feel like this is probably not dangerous.

It's not a complete unknown and might not even be considered an RC since it HAS been tested on people.

I think the difference is maybe just that it's approved in Russia and not here, but if it was approved for use in the U.S. and not in Russia would it change your opinion??

I know it would change mine.

 

[kleinerkiffer]

I have to read up on it, but to quickly answer your question, I doubt that'll alter your brain/DNA permanently and I personally would try it, because it seems like a really interesting drug, but I need to readmmore about it

 

[Mycophile]

^^^ I believe if more dopamine receptors were built that would be a negative, like it is with opiate receptors, because they would be upregulated, and more dopamine molecules would be needed to fill the receptors. .. Either way, if there is an involvement in genomics sounds, this sounds very dangers.

Here's what someone from Reddit said.

I'm starting to really enjoy Cross-posting drug comments from posters on Reddit and bluelight back and forth to get a kind of "3rd hand discussion" between you guys.

Here is what a Reddit user said (I think he might be Russian but I'm not sure):

"changing expression of genes is how most substances work, just its not obvious so i dont see anything special in that. When you take amfetamine and it downregulates your natural dopamine levels its also trough changing genes trascription.Genes rule it all. Its aproved to use in Russia and i used it without problems its much safer than most substances that werent researched in humans (like racetams except piracetam)."


What do other posters think about this guy's comments??

He's doing a pretty good job of convincing me it might be relatively safe to try, along with Kleiner Keifer.

Now DON"T take that as meaning I am being reckless.

Some have suggested I ask my pharmacist about this but wouldn't that be stupid????

What the fuck is a pharmacist going to say??

Me: "hey, I was just wondering if you thought mixing a drug that is unknown in the U.S. but known in Russia which effects Dopamine and gene regulation might be safe to mix with my Lexapro??"

LOL

Who wants to guess as to the kind of answer I'd get??


Anyways, I'd like to keep the responses going.

The vendor I bought this from is now saying he hasn't even received my money order even though it should have arrived 2 days ago.

So I may be asking questions about a drug I will never even get which will = $103 down the drain.

Isn't there something VERY ODD about the idea that a money order placed on OVERNIGHT PRIORITY MAIL just simply "wouldn't arrive" at a vendor??

I think if I was buying a book this would be no issue and it seems VERY fishy to me........

 

[Mycophile]

I have to read up on it, but to quickly answer your question, I doubt that'll alter your brain/DNA permanently and I personally would try it, because it seems like a really interesting drug, but I need to readmmore about it

PLEASE DO read more about it for my sake, preferably if you could just devote 5-10 minutes on reading about it over the next few days I'd GREATLY appreciate that as you may be effecting my choice to try this stuff and I don't want to jeopardize my health.

I'm not placing it in your hands or anything...that's not exactly cool lol....but I have to admit, I am kind of naive with drugs and pretty easily swayed by anecdotes and I know that's NOT a good thing...but I still DO believe I have more common sense than some people and have so far avoided a lot of drugs I knew would hurt me.

 

[kleinerkiffer]

To answer your questions

1.

Western blotting analysis showed increased expression of BDNF protein in the hippocampus after subchronic administration of L-theanine. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21861094

Even something found in green tea (L-theanine, I'm currently experimenting with this amino acid) can alter your gene expression

2.

Originally, bromantane was thought to act as a reuptake inhibitor of serotonin and dopamine. Indeed, bromantane does inhibit the reuptake of serotonin, dopamine, and to a lesser extent norepinephrine in vitro in rat brain tissue. However, the concentrations required to do so are extremely high (50–500 µM) and likely not clinically relevant.(Although one study found an IC50 for dopamine transport of 3.56 µM, relative to 28.66 nM for mesocarb; neither drug affected serotonin transport at the tested concentrations, in contrast.) In any case, the lack of typical psychostimulant-like effects and adverse effects seen with bromantane supports the notion that it is not acting significantly as a monoamine reuptake inhibitor, but rather via enhancement of dopamine synthesis. Wikipedia

and

Bromantan induced a significant increase in the 5-HT and 5-HIAA content in the frontal cortex and delayed an increase in their content in subcortical brain regions. A stable decrease in the 5-HT and 5-HIAA levels in the cerebellum is observed. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7580761

So even though quote one says that bromantane doesn't affect serotonin transporters, I'd say don't combine a SSRI and bromantane

3.

bromantane instead acts via indirect genomic mechanisms to produce a rapid, pronounced, and long-lasting upregulation in a variety of brain regions of the expression of tyrosine hydroxylase (TH) and aromatic L-amino acid decarboxylase (AAAD) (also known as DOPA decarboxylase), key enzymes in the dopamine biosynthesis pathway. Wikipedia

In terms of its pharmacological action, bromantane shows an antiasthenic effect, increases resistance to overheating, and, thereby, contributes to the restoration of working capacity after physical loads. This compound, which possesses combined stimulative and anxiolytic effects, increases physical and intellectual working capacity; inhibits the development of fatigue processes; accelerates restoration under common conditions and conditions complicated by hypoxia and hyperthermia; promotes improvement of mnemic processes (learning); improves the coordination of movements; increases body temperature; has a neuropsychoactivation effect (therefore it is sometimes referred to as a psychomotor stimulator); reveals antagonism to the sedative action of tranquilizers; displays a positive inotropic action without affecting the heart chronotropic function or systemic arterial pressure, and produces immunomodulation activity

The mechanism of bromantane action is based on the facility to increase the activity of the lower centers of the central nervous system (the hypothalamus nuclei, the reticular nuclei of the operculum, the hippocampus). It does not exert any expressed action on noradrenergic mediators, but implements the activation properties through the dopaminergic system. Bromantane strengthens GABA-ergic mediation, reducing gene expression, supervising synthesis of GABA-transporters, and functioning as a return capture mediator. A potentiality for central serotonin holding effects is also assumed.

A definite role in the implementation of the bromantane pharmacological effect is played by its antiradical and membrane protective properties: bromantane increases immunity even after a single dose (increases the level of B-cells and circulating immune complex in the blood-stream), and it is more powerful than another synthetic adaptogen, levamizol, in terms of its effect on immunity (Morozov et al., 1999).

Bromantane stimulates synthesis of cytochrome P-450 and thus facilitates detoxifying liver functions and reduces the hypnotic action of thiopental sodium (but at the same time, does not weaken the anxiolytic effect of benzodiazepines).

Bromantane administration in therapeutic doses is characterized by the almost full absence of side effects including manifestations of withdrawal syndrome and hyperstimulation (Morozov et al., 1999). In animal experiments, toxic reactions were observed only after high doses of bromantane administration (>600 mg/kg). http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3762282/

 

[mike.vick]

I was under the impression that bromantane worked on basically all but the opiate and cholinergic systems, so like dopamine + serotonin + norepeniphrine and mainly thru nmda action.

EDIT: I think I am thinking of mematine

And it seems safe, I would probably give a few bucks to try a few doses

 

[Mycophile]

To answer your questions

1. Even something found in green tea (L-theanine, I'm currently experimenting with this amino acid) can alter your gene expression

2.
and

So even though quote one says that bromantane doesn't affect serotonin transporters, I'd say don't combine a SSRI and bromantane

3.

Wait, so now you have totally shifted gears and think it ISN'T safe to mix with an SSRI???

I didn't fully read all you quotes but will go back and do so, but the wiki page said that it did NOT have a significant impact on serotonin in normal dosages and that only a very large amount would be likely to cause a problem.

Could you explain why you no longer think this is true???

 

[Mycophile]

Man, everyone I talk to, between here and Reddit has me going back and forth on whether or not I should take this shit.

I mean one way or another it's arriving in the mail for me next week so I have to decide.

I COULD just hold on to it and not take it for a long time but knowing me that isn't that likely.

So I'll have to make a choice and because I am so interested in it and don't REALLY know it necessarily does interact badly with SSRIs I feel like I'd be lying if I said I don't think I will probably try to pop one of the 50mg pills and see what it does.


I mean if I do and it DOESN'T have a bad effect the first time, doesn't that leave me with some realm of knowledge on which to base the idea that it might not have a bad effect the second time??

I mean I guess with shit like this it's all about that one first time you try it and wouldn't you probably know pretty quickly if you were going to react badly to it??

Like don't you think you'd know in the first few hours or do you think it could wear off and have felt just fine but the next day you might have some horrible after effect??

 

[EMODAFINIL]

So basically I know bromantane is a stimulant drug that also has anxiolytic properties.