Anybody want to guess what's going on in my serotonin receptors?

[vortech]

So here is the setup, I am currently taking 50 milligrams of Zoloft a day, and the last 3 days I have been taking taianeptine at recreational dosage (between 100-200mg at a time. Yesterday I got a chance to try 3-Meo-PCE which also has some sort of activity on my serotonin receptors on top of the two drugs I'm already taking. So I've been experimenting with 10-20mg doses either oral or insufflated. Three drugs with different ways of messing with serotonin. What's happening?

 

[Mracid]

You are not really doing good to your brain, tianeptine works differently (works with NMDA and AMPA receptors), with the researches they concluded its serotoninergic activity is none. So on that case its only zoloft that affects serotonin. As for the 3-MEO-PCE it might potentiate or reduce Zoloft by having the same activity, I dont know if they fight for the receptors or complete each other tho, which would define if it potentiate or reduce.

That is all about serotonin but its not the only receptor in your brain, there are TONS and if you have an amount of unbalanced receptors that makes your brain less effective you can tolerate sress alot less and become unstable. I suggest you look into increasing LTD in your brain instead of simply overloading serotonin. It might be better.

Peace and good luck with your anxiety and drug use.

 

[vortech]

How would I go about increasing LTD?
The conditions in which I found myself in this particular situation are unique, as I have been been normally taking suboxone 4mg /day for the last few weeks, trying to find the best way to taper that down, and thats where tianeptine comes in. But I Realized I need to taper the suboxone to a much lower dose first, and then supplement with something along the lines of tianeptine. Last time I stopped suboxone I was not able to reach a homeostasis over 4 months of attempts. So I am researching ways to supplement my brain chemistry, these include tianeptine and 3-meo-pce, which seem to fill the gaps quite well so far as I have been experiencing.

 

[Mracid]

Well long term depression is a pattern of action in your brain that is activated when it is required. So to increase LTD you need to provoke something (action or drug) to increase LTP and then your brain will selectively choose which part of your brain loses the action potential to stabilise your energy depending on the context you are in.

To do that My suggestions are supplementing on L-Glutamine and Glycine, I would also stop any NMDA antagonist since it only reduce LTP and consequently LTD. Tianeptine is not a serotonin booster it is a AMPA stabilizer and NMDA amplifier. So I think tianeptine is helping you. I would add Noopept and L-Theanine. That is it for supplements, As for actions I suggest you do alot of exercise and alot of work to make your brain want to create more LTP to act and consequently LTD to compensate.

As for the opiate withdrawl nothing can really help, your body needs to stabilize and it will not be fun, the only thing to do is tapper off slowly.

As for Zoloft My opinion is that it dissociate people and reduce the potential for conscious decision even if it is somehow good for the brain at the right dose and the right person.

It doesnt work for me so I use Mushrooms to compensate. I use them 10 times a year mabe more mabe less. They work by making every hesitation in your brain come out and speak out. So you are less ignoring parts of you that want things, know things and can do things, making you more you, temporarely, and when you come down its like landing a plane of thoughts in a land of personnality. You can choose which part of your personnality gain strenght and which give it. But there are limits its not a magic solution to every problems, it only makes you gain control over your thoughts and come back to your mental routine when you come down. But how to know which will make you happy other than try it?

I hope I could help you, if not I hope you will find peace somehow.

 

[serotonin2A]

LTP and LTD happen at the level of individual synapses and are not something that you can control or would even want to control. An analogous discussion would be to say that you want to put more binary ones on your harddrive to make your computer function better. Like binary bits, the pattern of LTP and LTD is what is useful, rather than simply whether they are present or not.

 

[aced126]

Well long term depression is a pattern of action in your brain that is activated when it is required. So to increase LTD you need to provoke something (action or drug) to increase LTP and then your brain will selectively choose which part of your brain loses the action potential to stabilise your energy depending on the context you are in.

To do that My suggestions are supplementing on L-Glutamine and Glycine, I would also stop any NMDA antagonist since it only reduce LTP and consequently LTD. Tianeptine is not a serotonin booster it is a AMPA stabilizer and NMDA amplifier. So I think tianeptine is helping you. I would add Noopept and L-Theanine. That is it for supplements, As for actions I suggest you do alot of exercise and alot of work to make your brain want to create more LTP to act and consequently LTD to compensate.

As for the opiate withdrawl nothing can really help, your body needs to stabilize and it will not be fun, the only thing to do is tapper off slowly.

As for Zoloft My opinion is that it dissociate people and reduce the potential for conscious decision even if it is somehow good for the brain at the right dose and the right person.

It doesnt work for me so I use Mushrooms to compensate. I use them 10 times a year mabe more mabe less. They work by making every hesitation in your brain come out and speak out. So you are less ignoring parts of you that want things, know things and can do things, making you more you, temporarely, and when you come down its like landing a plane of thoughts in a land of personnality. You can choose which part of your personnality gain strenght and which give it. But there are limits its not a magic solution to every problems, it only makes you gain control over your thoughts and come back to your mental routine when you come down. But how to know which will make you happy other than try it?

I hope I could help you, if not I hope you will find peace somehow.

Wouldn't this be potentially harmful with glutamate excitotoxicity concerns?

 

[Cotcha Yankinov]

I am mixed on the role of glutamate as far as being protective or damaging - I have seen some instances where glutamate has a neurotrophic/neuroprotective role, where blockade causes cell death.

In one study there was a suggestion that ketamine's negative effect on developing GABA interneurons is due to suppression of a trophic effect of glutamate.

Whether or not excess LTP might contribute to mental illness in some instances is another matter I think...

 

[Mracid]

I am not suggestiong that you can control wether LTP or LTD happens. I only say that we can strenghten both or weaken both at the same time. So increasing what you can do will lead into a an increase in what you will be able to stop. Call it flexibility if you want. All I am saying is that by reducing the amount of LTP and LTD (that can come form inactivity, or wrong drug use) you can reduce your ability to chose what you want to do when along with your comfort zone, so with that thought the opposite is also true, with activity and good drug use you can increase it. But that is only what I think of it.

 

[serotonin2A]

I am not suggestiong that you can control wether LTP or LTD happens. I only say that we can strenghten both or weaken both at the same time. So increasing what you can do will lead into a an increase in what you will be able to stop. Call it flexibility if you want. All I am saying is that by reducing the amount of LTP and LTD (that can come form inactivity, or wrong drug use) you can reduce your ability to chose what you want to do when along with your comfort zone, so with that thought the opposite is also true, with activity and good drug use you can increase it. But that is only what I think of it.

I understand your point, but what I am saying is that strengthening or weakening LTP/LTD globally won't help with any of the things you are talking about, and may actually be detrimental. Too much LTP and LTD is actually dangerous, because it makes it too easy to overwrite the adult structure of the brain. Restraining LTP and LTD allows the brain to retain memories, skills, et al. for long periods of time. Ultimately, unless you have some disease that causes you to have deficient LTP/LTD, or you take a pharmacological agent that disturbs them, then those processes already occur at the optimal level in your brain, and it would actually be detrimental to change them.

 

[Mracid]

First I agree with you if I was suggesting drugs. But I am suggesting nearly non psychoactive nutritional supplements which are either endogenous peptide or amino acid. How can that be bad? I think it doesnt take control of your brain like drug does, it just nurish it.

Assuming that no one is perfect, change is always needed and trial and errors is how consious minds work what they can't understand. We can't understand our body chemistry perfectly so we have to use the minimal knowledge we have and use trial and errors (usually with animals but with cognitive/neuronal adjustments it's hard to have a smart enough gunnea pig), some people just can't stand how they feel and decide to become the gunnea pig.

I agree when I described the Ideal I thought of, I didnt think to mention you need to take baby steps at the beggining to become comfortable and eased with the supplements and work it up when you feel. I think that with nutritional supplements you can follow your feeling since its like eating but more precisely and more intense. (none of what I mentionned to add is usually exogenous except green tea)
I also forgot to say that you can use Gaba supplements and chamomile/spearmint tea when you need to relax and/or overload your brain like in an exam(lower the dose for an exam for better recall). GABA wont pass you BB but your body will store it for sure.

I use all of the nutritional supplement I mentionned (Tianeptine isnt a supplement) and know their potency which is why I also know It does not change anything longer than a day, except if you do what most nootropic users do which I think is ignorant and pushed by the fact that school give you the illusion that you always need to be performant. But the truth is that you only need performance at precise moments which is why I use them litteraly when needed instead of alternating with different drugs to be on the same level all the time which is what most nootropic users do. I also do not use racetams other than phenypiracetam for exams, they are too unnatural for me.

I think everything is possible with a brain, with the right balance and direction we can "go" anywhere in our personnality stock. Psychedelics showed me that clearly. Psychedelics and supplements are the best I have seen to increase brain activity easily.With my supplement regimen I increased my "hard drive" memory by 200% and my RAM by easily 600%. I also increased my reflex, reduced my perceptual pain caused by hyperactivity of all senses and increased the balance between my two emisphers (creative thinking). Overall I gained alot.So I think that in the right condition and context it can be good for everyone.