RCs Any differences between prolonged 4fa use vs normal amphetamine? I've an issue ...

[DistyBoi]

Right so I've got myself in a very sticky situation at the moment. I'll make it breif. Been at uni 3 yrs and every single deadline and work was done with the use of 4fa binges over weeks period, it worked a charm, got all work done to high standard.

However now in my final year (with the last hand in date within 3-4 weeks now) i've stupily done the same procrastinating with the work and I've got so much more work to do than other years that I've already spent a good 2 weeks using it nearly daily, with quite frequent day long binges mixed in too. Now I'm at the point where do any work at all I feel I need to use some, and my tollerence is going up and up for diminishing returns, and have generally decreased physiological signs when I do take it (heart rate always stable but doesn't rise much) I have been taking concomitantly with etizolam to stop the anxiety, muscle tension and too high BPM which has been a saviour to me. I'm more than happy to sacrifice a month or so of amphet and benzo withdrawal hell to pass a degree ive worked on for four years. I'll roughly exaplin my doses and useage habit below in a sec, but having read through the amazingly informative Amphetamine - The Drug You Learn to Hate I really am curious how different 4fa should be the effects of normal amphet?

Since amphets binges is usually a monthly thing for me I need a highish dose to start anyway, 120mg in the morning is perfect for work without too much stimulation, then 50xmg bumps every 3-4 hours as needed lasted about five days.

On 4-5 day 120mg basically gave nothing, or marginal effects (heart rate not effected at all) so I topped up to 200mg, same the previous 120mg. Bumps needed were rising to 75 now.

On tenth day after a few binges (side note: Throughout I have gotten lots of sleep and maintained a very healthy diet) in total from seven in the morning to nine at night I needed an entire gram simply to maintain my focus on my work, with a couple of etiz to calm the jitters, and extra to sleep.

Well now it's day 14 and im at the point now where 250-300mg will give me a decent initial boost of motivation (I drink it over 20-30 mins), and top ups every 1-2 hours of 100mg are needed (stuff wears off sooo quickly now). So I'm pushing a gram a day. Oddly even when buzzing and concentrating my heart rate is nearly normal, but when I move around and exercise I get very out breath very quickly. This effect recovers after a nights sleep.

So the issue is I have another two weeks where I am going to have to be concentrating daily on work to pass my degree. But never having done an amphetamine for this long, or gotten to this level tollerance, I have no idea if what I'm doing is just silly or actually dangerous. Any feedback from oher amphet addicts here on how it effected you would be greatly appreciated. I've no idea if people often use amphets daily, morning to night, for this long, with such such tollerance, so dont know if this is a typial amphetamine addiction or more serious. Extrapolating the above rising dosage with time by the end of the next 2-3 weeks I could be using 2-3 4fa a day?!

So just a two few breif questions that will really help me work out what I am to do:

Tollerence can not rise forever until something physiological gives signs of strain, or gives up entirely, so what would be the first warning signs the amount I'm using should go no higher?

What advise would you give to me for my situation, either important advise or just a suggestion, any recommendations would be appreciated.

Thanks.

 

[DistyBoi]

So generally safe to kep pushing dose higher for productivity I presume since no-one jumped on this post waning me of anything?

 

[Coviekiller5]

So generally safe to kep pushing dose higher for productivity I presume since no-one jumped on this post waning me of anything?

Well a bit late but I have a lot of experience with taking Amphetamines for extended periods, I've taken more than a gram a day of speed for a few days at a time. It didn't bother me all that much, never experienced bad side effects, but I always sleep a decent amount and I drink tons of protein shakes + whole milk, seems to keep me healthy.

I take it orally in capsules anywhere from 50-400mg depending on what potency/the drug is. I do not recommend snorting I think that is going to lead to worse health effects than taking it orally.

Also I have to mention I have used 4fa in the past, I found it to be bad to take a lot of, like made me feel sick.

Be aware that unlike regular Amphetamines, 4fa is releasing serotonin and therefore likely neurotoxic for the same reason as Methamphetamine. Could be wrong on that but its what I have read.

Hope that helps, if you need any more specific info I keep a dosage log of everything I take, 1.5 years

 

[Burnt Offerings]

Snorting 4FA hurts worse than any drug I've ever snorted. It is very painful, don't do it.

 

[Coviekiller5]

Never tried but snorting speed was pretty painful I never much liked it.

Oh and I never answered the original question. The difference between 4fa and amphetamine use is the neurotoxicity that 4fa will more than likely cause. This is because 4fa releases serotonin while amphetamine does not (or very little atleast).

 

[St3ve]

Your use is approaching very worrisome levels I'd say. You're using a full gram of 4-fa a DAY and plan to keep doing this for another two weeks, whilst upping the dose more? Sounds like an absolute disaster waiting to happen. I get a horrible week long hangover if I take more than ~250mg of 4-FA in a weekend, I can not imagine what I'd be like if I dosed a gram over a weekend let alone if that turned into a daily habit. 4-FA is becoming quite popular around where I'm from, and I know people who use it heavily in the weekends but I've never met anyone who's using entire grams in a 24h period...

Remember, just because you have a tolerance to the psychological and apparently physiological effects doesn't mean that you're not causing damage. Higher doses in general will produce more toxic effects.

4-FA I'd say is more similar to amphetamine than it is to anything else, but it does release some serotonin as well which will probably cause a more severe depression/come down when you eventually do stop. The concomitant use of etizolam (while good now to cover up the nasty side effects you'd otherwise be experiencing by now) will likely also cause you problems when you stop. How much etizolam a day are you taking to be able to sleep after dosing so much 4-FA during the day?

I seriously advise you to re-evaluate what you're doing. I understand you're approaching the end of your degree and you'd like to pass, but at what point does that become more of a priority than your overall health? Such heavy abuse of 4-FA could have very long lasting/permanent rebound effects. I'm guessing you're taking multiple mg of etizolam a day as well, keep in mind that even a modest benzo habit can have pretty atrocious withdrawal effects. Could you potentially do a resit or redo the year?

 

[Dresden]

I feel sure 4-FA is worse for you than AMP.

 

[Coviekiller5]

I feel sure 4-FA is worse for you than AMP.

Thats what I have always heard myself. I have to imagine it is fairly neurotoxic just like meth since it releases serotonin.

 

[lazyman]

4-FA is definitely no-go for long term use because of significant serotonin release compared to traditional "study" stims. BTW why did you choose 4-FA instead of more commonly used 2-FMA?

 

[FoReaLL]

Ive never tried 4-fa but ive def wanted too. Ive heard several ppl say it feels alot like a cousin to mdma (both dumping seratonin). And I dont think ANYONE wold advise doing mdma more then once every few months. Taking something similar to that every day cant be good in the long run. Id be afraid id never be able to feel what happy is without having to take something. If you have adhd cant you get an adderal script? i know alot of ppl take addy every day without the dose exponentially increasing like that. Good luck

 

[Crashing]

I've abused 4-FA and treated it as amphetamine on a few occasions, used for 1-2 weeks continuously. I must say, withdrawal from that is serious business. It's way worse than normal amphetamine. Each time i binged on 4-FA like that, i had about a week of horrible detox at the end.

2FMA on the other hand had never given me any negative effects, even when using daily for months. Sadly, it's days are numbered.

 

[tacodude]

There is some info on how flourinated compounds (4-Fa) are quite toxic as when the compound is metabolised the flourine attached to the molocule metabolises into a toxic byproduct especially when the compound is heated to vaporize. The thread was in the cannibis section something like synth cannabinoid design from drugbto chemical weapon. I will try to find it.

Edit: Here you go

http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads...-Weapon?highlight=cannabinoid+chemical+weapon

"Fluoroacetate is similar to acetate, which has a pivotal role in cellular metabolism. Fluoroacetate disrupts the citric acid cycle (also known as the Krebs cycle) by combining with coenzyme A to form fluoroacetyl CoA, which reacts with citrate synthase to produce fluorocitrate which binds very tightly to aconitase, thereby halting the citric acid cycle."


"Sub-lethal doses of sodium fluoroacetate may cause damage to tissues with high energy needs — in particular, the brain, gonads, heart, lungs and fetus. Sub-lethal doses are typically completely metabolised and excreted within four days."

http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads...cal-Weapon?p=13185825&viewfull=1#post13185825

The link below has vapor temps for each cannabinoid and THC burns the lowest temp.

http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads...cal-Weapon?p=13186233&viewfull=1#post13186233

 

[Skorpio]

Not to necro, but fluoroacetate cannot be formed on a ring substituted compound.

I was about to talk about how certain length alkyl chains could release fluoroacetate, but then re-checked the thread to realize that isochromium really doesn't know what they are talking about and hasfragments of truth and actual chemistry mixed with a hell of a lot of mischaracterization and nonsense.

Sry again about the necro, was just doing some extra reading about 4fa (which is most definately somewhat neurotoxic due to its simultaneous release of serotonin and dopamine) and didnt want to let falsehoods go uncorrected.