Anxiolytic options in Australia

[KingConvenience]

Hope this is in the right place, I guess because certain pharmaceuticals and notably psychiatric medications are only approved in certain countries I would put it in here.

Executive summary:

Take 150mg venlafaxine XR daily, helps with major depression but anxiolytic properties are pretty inconsistent. I am well aware of the inherent dangers from prolonged benzodiazepine use and the dirty tolerance/habit that would come from using these. Reason I ask is that I have a tendency to self medicate with codeine, alcohol and marijuana which all help in allowing conversations with other people, but are not sustainable and detrimental to health and studies.

Does anyone know the prevalence (ie: ability to be prescribed in AU and general willingness of GP to write up) or any other information on efficacy of the following (for anxiety specifically):

Lithium, buproprion, amineptine, DRIs, Buspirone, reboxetine,

Basically something that does not make you drowsy and will help with the upper ends of what one can call a severe anxiety problem. Are SNDRIs, DRIs, NDRIs, ARIs in Australia? All from what I have seen and heard of in my limited experience are SSRIs, SNRIs and tetra/tricyclics.

 

[mcwally]

here is a link to a useful pdf

http://www.rxfiles.ca/acrobat/cht-Psyc-Antidepressant.pdf

so ur on effexor now what if any you had in the past?

 

[KingConvenience]

Have had zoloft when I was younger and that's all. Effexor works but not enough for anxiety (slightly better) which is what I'm trying to find something to help me with. This is anxiety to the extent that my neck freezes up sometimes, sudden heavy sweating, rapid voice, etc, usually I don't care but I heard someone call me a 'freak' under their breath because my actions resulting from intense nerves were so obvious and strange. That paper seems to indicate venlafaxine is one of the best for this case, a bad thing to know since there may not be many other options.

Is wellbutrin/buproprion available for script in australia?

I'm assuming this would take care of it.

I really don't want to start taking benzos

Thanks for your help, that file is amazingly informative. (lol at the reference section).

PS: are lithium salts necessary to get a script for, or are they OTC?

 

[atropine]

.

Is wellbutrin/buproprion available for script in australia?

I'm assuming this would take care of it.

No, it's available as a once only prescription to stop smoking, and that's it. It doesn't have any anti anxiety properties for most it has the opposite effect, it causes anxiety and stress.

I

PS: are lithium salts necessary to get a script for, or are they OTC?

lithium is incredibly toxic and not used for anxiety. it's used for bi-polar to regulate mania/depression mood swing. When you take lithium I think you have to have continuous blood tests to make sure you havent' started dying.

It is ofcouse prescription only, and probably(not sure) many GP's would refuse to prescribe it, they'd send you to a psychiatrist

 

[Flexistentialist]

CBT has been proven to be effective for treating anxiety. No drugs necessary.

 

[mcwally]

^that would depend on the person and condition and you cannot diagnose Kconvenience thru one post on the internet. It is accepted knowledge that there are genetic, behavioural and chemical/neurological reasons for depression/anxiety so both fronts are best tackled if ones life is getting fkd around, but yeh CBT /therapy can help. Some have heavily screwed neurotransmitter paths/levels or whathaveu and only appropriate meds can help. Others dont respond to or need say SSRIs cause their seretonin lvls are fine and see a phsychologist and find CBT or counselling does the trick.

 

[KingConvenience]

Ah k, I just thought that with DRIs etc that dopamine reuptake inhibition would mean increased levels of dopamine and so a more relaxed and euphoric state leading to greater empathy and ease in assimilating into a social environment -- similar to benzos/opiates without addiction? Maybe just wishful thinking.

Have tried a couple of therapy sessions and they are all pointless.
ie: "when you feel anxious you need to breath more" err yeah but its a bit more intesne than that "just count to 10 and breath" err... I think you might be underestimating it here. "1...2...3..." *cue walk out*... or even better is.. "do you feel like killing yourself?" Pretty much all the time. "Well that's pretty normal, how's your diet?"... (that was before venlafaxine controlled those thoughts... hence my advocation psychiatric meds b/c they have helped me greatly).


On that note, are benzos in Australia allowed for anxiety? Is there anything similar that avoids dependance and the lethargic state they put you in? I need my brain/memory to be in good condition for exams and all that.

 

[mcwally]

bupropion isnt really indicated for anxiety but your reasoning above for it is sound imo, I want to try it out also. It will take alot of time/heckling even various doctors however to get it prescribed for you for this here though it is gay.

ofcourse benzos are allowed for anxiety in aus lol, thats what they are universally for, aswell as hypnotics and lowering seizure threshold anticonvulsant. You may well be able to swindle a xanax script to be used sparingly on an as needed basis like for use a maxiumum of 2-3 times a week for full stressout scenarios, so no dependance is developed and you wont be given a repeat of it.

 

[Anon Ymous]

Yo Konvenience:
Firstly,
alot of people have serious anxiety problems. You are not the only one, so it was very rude of that person to mutter 'freakk' under his/her breath. Fuck the motherfucker. He/she will probably start taking a benzodiazepine when they are around 25 to get a good night's sleep, but continue taking the medicine to go comatose as a way of escaping their wretched and fucked up lives. 6 years later he/she will stop taking the benzodiazepine and start going INSANE like a motherfucker and be hospitalized. He/she will successfully withdraw from the benzodiazepine while being in the comfort of a hospital bed, then they will get sent home diagnosed with Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder and a whole array of anxiety conditions (GAD, SAD, Panic Attacks) and be on an anti-depressant until they die.

That's how dickheads go about treating their anxiety problems. You need to be informed about medicines. Unfortunately, all of Australia's 'Psycholeptic/Psychoanaleptic' medicines' indications need reviewing, so by chance if you goto a doctor you'll leave the surgery with a script for '50 mg sertraline twice daily'. Fuck that shit. In lay-man's terms, Anxiety is caused by over-excitation of the GABA receptors. Most anti-depressants tackle norepinephrine, dopamine and serotonin...not GABA! So fuck anti-depressants. There a crock anyway, only people who wanna 'git high!' all day take them. If you lack the right chemicals in your brain, take a pill, if your life sucks, fucking change it through the right way. Ok. Here's some medicines of interest in treating anxiety disorders:

Exercise.
No, sorry, we don't talk like that here.
Eat healthily/3 square meals a day.
CBT.
See your doctor and ask for Xanax 1mg for when you just can't take it, when the 'Healthy Option' of treating anxiety only works to some degree. DO NOT FUCKING ABUSE THE XANAX! Removed abuse.Also, if you are willing to pay Removed price for 56 tablets of 300mg, then get some Lyrica (pregabalin). It's the best medicine to treat anxiety disorders. No withdrawal, no negative health consequences, no tolerance/decrease in effectiveness, yet Australian Health organizations have failed to approve pregabalin for anxiety disorders, unlike the UK and Europe.

Neurontin (gabapentin) - Same deal as above except this one is the original and less potent form. 2400mg is equivelant to 300mg of pregabalin.

Do some PubMed research of 'pregabalin + anxiety' and research away! PS, don't any of you XXXX think of swindling your friendly neighbourhood DoctorB into prescribing this medicine for your 'refractory neuropathic pain' otherwise it'll get put in Schedule 8 like Codeine and DXM eventually will be.

Edit- You might want to lose the attitude and read the guidelines mate. lil angel15

 

[jayslapmc]

i am anxiety prone and have done the ssri thing then the snri thing then the cbt with snri thing and now the xanax+snri thing.

i would have to say that cbt does not work for everyone and the use of ssri+snri does not help people who are especially prone to anxiety like me. now i don't take xanax every day, i would say i take it about 2~4 times per week doses from 1mg to 3mg.

my doctor thinks 3mg is too much and it would put me to bed, but i have had to explain to him that when my heart is about to jump out of my chest, racing at 100bps, my hands start shacking so bad i cant even draw a straight line (thinking back to drawing graphs in UN), The 3mg of xanax it nearly enough to bring be back to baseline and it definitely does not put me to sleep.

If you find a good doctor its not hard to get scripts for xanax, they don't come with repeats so u have to go back to the doctor to get more, but its best that way so that they can monitor you and make sure your not abusing them.

the main point i want to put across to people reading this is that CBT does not work for everyone.

 

[filenet]

Anon Ymous - chill the fuck out dude and stop mixing your own issues with what KingConvenience asked. Thats the craziest 1st post Ive seen!

KingConvenience - no one on here can really answer your questions - you need to see a professional. Medications do not effect everyone the same way - that is why you need to find a good psyc (preferably recommended by a friend) who can properly assess your conditions and work with you to find the right holistic treatment.

good luck

 

[atropine]

he just needs a valium

 

[atropine]

bupropion isnt really indicated for anxiety but your reasoning above for it is sound imo, I want to try it out also. It will take alot of time/heckling even various doctors however to get it prescribed for you for this here though it is gay.

A dr Cant' prescribe it to you in Australia for any other reason than for the prevention of smoking. the PBS will only cover a single prescription of 150mg tablets, as that is all that's needed to give up smoking using bupropion (supposedly). It it not a relaxing drug. It makes many or even most people quite nervous, and irritable.

 

[Mr Blonde]

In lay-man's terms, Anxiety is caused by over-excitation of the GABA receptors. Most anti-depressants tackle norepinephrine, dopamine and serotonin...not GABA! So fuck anti-depressants. There a crock anyway, only people who wanna 'git high!' all day take them.

You must be fucking kidding right?

If your GABA receptors were to be over 'excited' as you put it, or subject to increased neurotransmitter binding, then it'd be like you've become doped up on benzos. GABA is responsible for calming the brain, which is why people with anxiety use benzodiazepines, which potentiate the action of the GABA neurotransmitter. So there's one thing you got wrong.

Anxiety in most cases where it is biologically based will be caused by increased levels of norepinephrine...I don't know of any medication that will simply lower the levels, which is why benzos are used so often I guess. About the only thing you got right in your post is that an anti-d that is used to raise levels of norepinephrine will be unsuitable...and you didn't even really say that I had to take your words and actually put meaning behind them. 8)

And who the hell gets high off anti-depressants anyway? Certainly not me; Zoloft and therapy pulled me out of a deep depressive rut.

Ah k, I just thought that with DRIs etc that dopamine reuptake inhibition would mean increased levels of dopamine and so a more relaxed and euphoric state leading to greater empathy and ease in assimilating into a social environment -- similar to benzos/opiates without addiction? Maybe just wishful thinking.

I can't think of many euphoric DRI's that get prescribed in Oz...in fact I can't think of one. I've heard of them being around in Europe though. Bupropion is a DRI to some extent, but will raise dopamine levels in parts of the brain that aren't going to make you feel great. It will quite probably raise your anxiety as it also increases norepinephrine levels.

Good luck finding the right medication for yourself KingConvenience. Once you do, things should start looking up!

 

[mcwally]

A dr Cant' prescribe it to you in Australia for any other reason than for the prevention of smoking. QUOTE]

rubbish, the PBS is not the law or saying what can and cant be prescribed its a benefit/subsidy scheme dude. Doctors can prescribe a noradrenaline/dopamine reuptake inhibitor if that is what they want to do. You are the one who has to pay for it however. I know someone who is on it for depression/anxiety and for him was the only thing that worked.

And talk about noradrenaline reuptake inhibitors inducing anxiety across the board is also diddly squat. I took reboxetine for a while which is purely a NRI with no increase in anxiety, however it didnt help my depression. Why the hell would effexor being a SNRI be the most indicated above SSRIs for anxiety if noradrenaline reuptake inhibitors were accepted to generally increase anxiety. Peoples brains react differently to these specific molecules, not only the fact that something is a ssri, a snri or a ndri (like bupropion). Some people get more depressed from say sertraline some get happy, some put on weight with effexor some lose weight, for some it makes them sleepy some energetic.

Bupropion is one of the highest prescribed antidepressants in the US and it doesnt even work on Seretonin, why would this be if it caused heaps of people anxiety. It can be a bit energizing for people with lethargic depression and the slightly elevated levels of dopamine may well give a sense of contentment and a lower risk of seeking a quick reward path like a ciggy or a line of coke. The beauty also is that it can be used in conjunction with a SSRI. Or one could be put on an SSRI and a NRI (reboxetine), it is the only antidepressant NRI really in Aus though (atomoxetine) Strattera is very similar. If you were on a SSRI and reboxetine you can adjust the ratio of seretonin to noradrenaline reuptake inhibiting but with effexor it is one venlafaxine molecule so this extra luxury isnt possible.

Not saying bupropion is the bees knees just sayin noradrenergic and dopaminergic systems can be significant parts of depression/anxiety not only the seretonin. At the moment they are developing such things as SNDRIs and better/ more NDRIs, why not they will be better than what we have atm and no doubt they will again make a killing.

 

[atropine]

A dr Cant' prescribe it to you in Australia for any other reason than for the prevention of smoking. QUOTE]

rubbish, the PBS is not the law or saying what can and cant be prescribed its a benefit/subsidy scheme dude. Doctors can prescribe a noradrenaline/dopamine reuptake inhibitor if that is what they want to do. You are the one who has to pay for it however.

Hmm Maybe, Maybe not!. You say it's just to do with the PBS, but I remember having a weird situation with benadryl tablets (S3), before they were removed from the Australian market.

My use for benadryl tablets was as a sleep aid, the pharmacist said that was not an approved use for benadryl tablets and could not sell them to me for that reason but he could sell me "unisom sleep gels" which also contained 50mg of Diphenhydramine Hydrochloride.

I said "That's crazy", he said "that's the law", so I had to pretend I wanted the benadryl tablets for hayfever. He then sold me the tablets.

Based on that exchange. I don't think a Dr could prescribe Zyban for any other purpose than as an anti smoking drug, as it's only approved for anti smoking in this country. The fact that Wellburtin WAS an anti depressant in Australia but discontinued has no relevance.

All Scheduled medication in this Country are licensed to be prescribed for certain alements. Zyban can't be prescribed for Depression, as the TGA has not approved it for anti Depression.

 

[mcwally]

that was a pharmacist trying to play dr (which they essentially do for S3s but he was being a tool), different ball game for a doctor prescribing,you cant base it on that exchange

a doctor could prescribe tramadol for depression if he wanted, this was even suggested to me by my dr, though he was more thinking aloud. I know it is not technically approved for an antidepressant but the makers of those lists are not lawmakers.