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Opinion Anti-Legalization Recreational Drug Users Unite

birdup.snaildown

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Conservative drug use is sustainable, on a personal and social level.

I don't believe in the legalization of everything. I would be much happier about the legalization of marijuana if it coincided with the illegalization of alcohol. Adding legal weed to a world of legal alcohol (combined with motor vehicles) doesn't seem like a good idea. I'm sure, statistically, there's reason to argue otherwise. I'm certainly more grounded and sensible when I consume marijuana. Alcohol makes me sloppy. Weed just makes me weird.

I don't like having to worry about drive-side testing. It detects people who have consumed weed at least one day before. The same can be said for alcohol, but you can calculate your BAC more or less. Weed content (in saliva) is an incredibly inaccurate measure of whether or not you can drive a car.

I guess weed should be legal. I was always passionate about it, until it started to happen.

I don't like celebrities getting on the weed wagon and advertising it as cool.

Alcohol and tobacco and weed aren't that different.

We're kind of adding one.

It happens to be the best of the three, but that's kind of meaningless.

It's not the best drug. I think it has remained the most popular recreational drugs in the world for so long because it's like alcohol. It's sloppy. It makes you slow.

Is there a drug you'd rather be legal?

Mine is amphetamines.
 

Perforated

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I think most drugs should be legal but regulated with their taxation being used to fund harm reduction and rehabilitation for those who will inevitably need it. A bit like smokes but with the taxes going into a dedicated fund for the purpose and not just topping of general government revenue like a sin tax.

I mean people are going to be taking it anyway. It seems foolish to criminalise drug taking but sensible to criminalise socially undesireable behaviour resulting from drug taking. Like driving while under the influence (though it’s debatable whether the crime should should be “driving while under the influence” or “driving while impaired” because the standard of proof might be different.
 

MydriHaze

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The most inherent problem comes from the regulation in a large scope social way, there should be a whole department to deal with it, you can't just sell the drugs and let the users fuck themselves up if they can't handle it alone, there must be a solid accompaniment. Without talking all the benefits it would bring to society, like it could create jobs, refund the debt, save the world and all of that...
 

dalpat077

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You sure do know how to start controversial threads I'll give you that! 🤣

I'm getting the popcorn out as we speak...

As a matter of interest though: how do you figure that tobacco belongs up there with alcohol and weed? This is something that has always perplexed me. Especially in these countries that want to ban tobacco products but legalize weed. I just don't get it. I can tell you that I've been smoking my head off (cigarettes) since I was in school and that was a fuck long time ago i.e. many many years and copious amounts of cigarettes over the years. Not once has a cigarette resulted in my making shit, causing me to drive like a lunatic and write cars off, or generally just make a fool of myself. I cannot say the same for alcohol. And I know from the two, possibly three, times that I've smoked even a PART of a joint: I'm a useless basket case. Certainly not capable of driving let alone doing anything else (other than cleaning out the refrigerator and then sleeping or being lethargic for two days).
 

✿Dai₷y✿

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Im not sure if its helpful to anyone besides suppliers and traffickers who profit from the whole "not illegal" grey area.

These drugs just get banned when they start to get any attention and the market jumps around, cant see how thats great harm reduction wise.

Making known and classifying potential future drugs legal does open the door for any fallout from misuse to users or the public somehow alright?

Legalising would make drugs taxable and create black markets anyway.

Some should be illegal.

Common sense should be compulsory
 

MydriHaze

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In term of harm reduction, i guess we could say that prohibition is like the plague for addicts, that's what marginalize people and let the users go fuck themselves, sort of speak. You couldn't imagine a world where drugs are legal and then not having a whole different system of social following, look at all what is already in place to help drugs users even though it's illegal, i guess it's more a question of process than simply switching coat legaly and politically....
 

Yourbaker

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Has there been any issues in states or other countries where marijuana has been legalized? Has there been any negative blowback from the last two years of legalization in Canada?

The less involvement our government and legal systems have in the drug world the better. Let people with understanding run things not people who live in a bubble of fear and misinformation. Beyond health checking and safety checking the operations (like any other food producer), government should not be involved in drugs.
 

dalpat077

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While I'm here... And I realize this is going to be unpalatable to some:

I think there's more than a few here that overestimate the benefits of legalization. And this coming from someone who not that long ago came out guns blazing in favor of this very notion.

Ya'll do realize that drug users are a minority? As some will know: I spend most of my days researching shit. And I can tell you that the latest worldwide drug use statistics, according to the UNODC (for 2018 but released in 2020), showed that only 3.53% of the entire world's population in 2018 used drugs (excluding alcohol and tobacco products i.e. opiates, cocaine, cannabis, amphetamine-type stimulants and new psychoactive substances). And of that: only 0.45% of the entire world's population in 2018 suffered from substance use disorders (which includes addiction of course). So let's assume they're out by 100% i.e. double those figures for 2018. You're still not talking about a majority by any stretch.

True: all is on the rise. No question about that. And we are all aware of the intrinsic value and profitability of the business. So there's no question that substantial amounts of money could be plowed back into economies, treatment and rehabilitation centers, etc. But let's not get ahead of ourselves here. And I submit that legalization will not result in less resources being necessary. Quite the opposite in my humble opinion. And the point: on any other issue whatsoever you'd be hard pressed to find an instance where even 10% of a population would cause a seismic shift in policy and societal perception and acceptance. Not trying to burst any bubbles here or be the party mood killer. Just giving you some perspective is all. And hopefully food for thought.

Of course (and as we've seen on some of the CEPS threads): statistics and data can be manipulated or be unrepresentative of a picture in many ways. One could make the argument that once you start splitting the above figures up on a country-by-country basis, for example, that the percentages and ratios would increase by a fair margin of course. Of this I'm only too acutely aware. So there's some additional food for thought. And of course: the DEA, for example, has been more than forthcoming in their statistics and data presented insofar as it pertains to the USA on the topic of use and abuse.

But, and assuming that there's a worldwide shift of seismic proportions on the topic, there will always be winners and losers. Prime example: if Cocaine was legalized the world over in the next half hour the increase in consumption of Cocaine in South America, for example, wouldn't even be a blip on the radar. Production and distribution would increase however. And somebody, somewhere, will be buying boatloads more. Yeah, yeah. We can argue about price and purity and harm reduction until the cows come home. But I think my point is clear.

Oddly enough: as I sit here and type this, right at this very minute, there's a talk show host on national radio extolling the virtues of weed vs. alcohol and tobacco products! How's that for coincidence! Should be an interesting half hour!

I personally think we're on shaky ground here with all of this. And to be quite frank: although I'm not one for conspiracy theories I'm starting to question motives behind some of these moves. And try as I might: I'm not coming up trumps when it comes to the notion that legalization is going to be of benefit to all and beneficial to those that have already gone down a less than ideal, or unwanted, path. To think that these governments actually give a shit is pure folly in my opinion. Financial motive is the first thing that comes to mind. But I'm starting to wonder if there's something more nefarious to it all than that. I shall reserve judgment (or at very least keep it to myself for now).

Thesis for the day done! :)

I shall now don my suit of armor and begin dodging the incoming...
 

aemetha

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I personally think we're on shaky ground here with all of this. And to be quite frank: although I'm not one for conspiracy theories I'm starting to question motives behind some of these moves. And try as I might: I'm not coming up trumps when it comes to the notion that legalization is going to be of benefit to all and beneficial to those that have already gone down a less than ideal, or unwanted, path. To think that these governments actually give a shit is pure folly in my opinion. Financial motive is the first thing that comes to mind. But I'm starting to wonder if there's something more nefarious to it all than that. I shall reserve judgment (or at very least keep it to myself for now).
I think you're rather missing the point that many advocates of legalisation make. The point isn't that drugs are good, or that drug use will be lessened by legalisation. The point is that illegalisation doesn't help. The harms of drugs are obvious. Addiction, and accidental death being the most serious and prolific. Making drugs illegal doesn't address those. It doesn't provide for quality control of the substance (fentanyl in the heroin). Also, if you assume that a belief that one can change one's behaviour is an essential element to that change (and you should, because there have been a lot of studies that support it), punishing someone through the criminal justice system is literally doing the opposite of what you need to do to help someone battling addiction. Instead of encouraging someone to self-efficacy, the criminal justice system removes choice and freedom entirely. People offer the trite "you can't help them unless they want to change" up all the time when discussing addiction. Why would anyone want to change when they don't feel like they have the control, the ability to make that change?

So basically, it shouldn't be a question of "Why should we legalise it?" it should be a question of "Is keeping it illegal helping anybody?". Legalisation, while offering support for people when they need it without judgement or repercussions, puts choice and the ability to exercise ones self-efficacy back in the hands of the afflicted.
 

alasdairm

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^ nicely put.

you also echo bluelight's own mission statement well: "Bluelight neither condemns nor condones the use of drugs. Rather, we accept that drug use will always exist irrespective of legal status or societal norms. While there is no truly safe way to use drugs, we understand that prohibition and abstinence are not realistic or desirable solutions for everyone, nor have they been adequate in addressing the serious public health concerns associated with drug use."

alasdair
 

birdup.snaildown

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dalpat077 said:
As a matter of interest though: how do you figure that tobacco belongs up there with alcohol and weed?

Tobacco is the worst offender of the three, as far as I'm concerned.

I look at it in terms of risk and reward. Heroin is beautiful but it is equally horrible. Tobacco is just horrible. It is the worst.
 

birdup.snaildown

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To generally respond to other comments and posts: I'm not convinced that the benefits of legalizing marijuana outweigh the benefits of it being illegal. Therefore I'm absolutely not convinced of other drugs, since marijuana is one of the least offensive.

One of the questions I asked in my OP (which I don't think anyone has answered) was badly phrased. I'll rephrase it.

Assuming only one drug should be legalized (ATM). Which one should it be?

I'd rather amphetamines be legal, which is controversial (I suppose) because most noobs subscribe to the idea that meth is a nasty drug without merit.
 

Xorkoth

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I think you're rather missing the point that many advocates of legalisation make. The point isn't that drugs are good, or that drug use will be lessened by legalisation. The point is that illegalisation doesn't help. The harms of drugs are obvious. Addiction, and accidental death being the most serious and prolific. Making drugs illegal doesn't address those. It doesn't provide for quality control of the substance (fentanyl in the heroin). Also, if you assume that a belief that one can change one's behaviour is an essential element to that change (and you should, because there have been a lot of studies that support it), punishing someone through the criminal justice system is literally doing the opposite of what you need to do to help someone battling addiction. Instead of encouraging someone to self-efficacy, the criminal justice system removes choice and freedom entirely. People offer the trite "you can't help them unless they want to change" up all the time when discussing addiction. Why would anyone want to change when they don't feel like they have the control, the ability to make that change?

So basically, it shouldn't be a question of "Why should we legalise it?" it should be a question of "Is keeping it illegal helping anybody?". Legalisation, while offering support for people when they need it without judgement or repercussions, puts choice and the ability to exercise ones self-efficacy back in the hands of the afflicted.

Great post. This sums up my views on it very well. Illegalization of drugs is not helping anyone. Drugs have won the war on drugs, this is completely self-evident. People are going to get drugs, we have utterly failed to stop that through illegalization. What we HAVE "gained" through illegalization is a whole host of problems that would make a pretty good horror movie. Cartels and gangs that control the supply and have turned neighborhoods, cities, and entire countries into war zones, with terrorized populations. Addicts who are pushed to the margins of society and locked into prisons instead of rehabilitation. Prison systems that create traumatized career criminals out of nonviolent drug offenders. And others who are labeled as felons and unable to rebuild their lives due to the stigma and criminal background checks once they get out. Illegalization of drugs helps no one except for the people profiting from the distribution of drugs, and the people profiting from the incarceration of drug addicts. And do we have less drug users? No, we don't. Prohibition doesn't work. It's time that we face this fact and try something new.

dalpat said that drug users are a minority, and this is true. But legalizing and regulating drugs won't change that. People can already get drugs easily if they choose to go down that road. Most people don't choose to go down that road, which is good. I don't see how legalization would change that.
 

Xorkoth

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To generally respond to other comments and posts: I'm not convinced that the benefits of legalizing marijuana outweigh the benefits of it being illegal. Therefore I'm absolutely not convinced of other drugs, since marijuana is one of the least offensive.

One of the questions I asked in my OP (which I don't think anyone has answered) was badly phrased. I'll rephrase it.

Assuming only one drug should be legalized (ATM). Which one should it be?

I'd rather amphetamines be legal, which is controversial (I suppose) because most noobs subscribe to the idea that meth is a nasty drug without merit.

What are the downfalls of legalized marijuana? Have you ever been to Colorado? That place has all brand new infrastructure and is doing great. And society hasn't fallen apart either. I'm actually curious as to what you see as any negatives resulting from it.
 

w01fg4ng

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There are different levels of legalization and the gray area is as ambiguous as the OP's question.

For the thread title, did you mean "bootlickers anonymous"? :p jk, even i don't think meth should be sold in stores. Safe drugs should be medically accessible however
It's odd that this is the only mention in this thread about medicinal purposes. Well said anyway.
 

Yourbaker

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From a risk, perspective only marijuana should be legal (of the 3 alcohol, tobacco and marijuana). I can't speak for heroin or cocaine etc since I've never really used them enough or studied them unbiased.

From a health benefit perspective only marijuana but for medical use alcohol may have value I'm not in the profession to speak for it.

I've used all 3 and was honestly best at alcoholism, it was easy to use never failed to ruin my future and probably most of my liver. Tobacco should probably be on a "grow your own" basis like marijuana is in Canada. It would eliminate a lot of the additional ingredients people say is the real killer in their cigarettes... Or not but some would be happy.

I believe money spent on truthful education gets more accomplished vs huge costs of law enforcement, court costs and punishment.

My government has never gotten my permission to involve themselves in drugs at all. I'm really tired of paying heavily for the repeated failures of the misguided legal enforcers.
 

birdup.snaildown

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Xorkoth said:
What are the downfalls of legalized marijuana?

It's hard to measure them. I smoke everyday. On paper, I'm a functional person. I know a lot of people like me. We suffer from weed. It is a cage. It is a poison. In some ways, I think, because it is such a mild poison we disregard it's potential for harm. I've known many people (myself included) who have smoked more than 50% of the days of their adult life. But, hey, everything is relative. We compare ourselves to drinkers.

As far as statistics go, I'm sceptical. That's my default position. I'm sceptical of anti-drug stats and I'm sceptical of pro-drug stats.

Also, I don't think enough has time passed.

The jury is out, IMO.

I suspect I am wrong. I suspect I am seeing things the way I want to see them. I do not take for granted that my position is neutral. Maybe it is better for weed to be legal, but is it better for me?

Marijuana is a vice. It is better (in every way) than alcohol, but that doesn't mean anything. I don't want alcohol to be legal either.

Something else I haven't mentioned is the appeal of danger.

I like taking illegal drugs, because they're illegal.

Sex, too, is dirtier when you combine it with shame.
 

Gormur

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Marijuana is a no brainer in my experience. It doesn't even seem to fit into a legal category because it's a plant. The same goes for magic mushrooms, mescaline and salvia. It just seems futile to try to control these plants without seeming to be a drug dealer yourself trying to profit from a drug war

On the other hand I think cocaine should be legalized because it's dangerous to manufacturers as well as consumers. I can't say anything about heroin production but I think legalizing/making chemicals OTC to produce meth would actually help to combat its spread is a logical step for a variety of reasons. That one is based on person experience

Obviously I'm just giving my personal opinion here. You probably want to hear from people who support keeping the laws as they are. I just don't see the reason for keeping marijuana and similar plants illegal or restricted. When you look at it at face value, it looks like somebody is being paid off and I don't like that.. There are other factors as well but you haven't mentioned them so I'll wait till somebody else responds
 
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