Mental Health Anhedonia MEGA Thread

[Dysphoric]

Thanks for the reply.

I've even changed my life up to some extent other than the whole diet change and physical activity. I'm now finishing community college and going to be transferring from there to a University. I've also found several new interest/hobbies within the last few years and yet, I still have this void that makes me feel incomplete. My psych said that anhedonia is actually due to my depression. I've recently accepted that I might be mildly depressed, but the biggest symptom being anhedonia right next to low motivation and anxiety (this hasn't been an issue lately though ). Like I said for the past 4 years this hasn't gotten much better even with some major changes.

Some things I should mention just in case. Bipolar does run on my moms side of the family. However I was tested and as of right now they say its inconclusive.

 

[WantToBeReborn]

Anedonia to me (an older person) is a word that I have trouble with. I am not trying to deny the existence of it--just take it out of the realm of physical or mental illness and into the realm of spiritual illness. I think when you cannot experience pleasure in your life that your life is not a good fit for you. I also think this is a modern epidemic! Take a good look at your life and then fantasize a life. How are they different? What thoughts does your mind heave up to tell you you can't have the fantasy life (Not enough money, not enough time, too risky, what would people think--whatever)?

I think that being separated from pleasure is a condition in our minds that is fed by two things: expectation and fear. When I started to practice letting go of those two things, pleasure became abundant and intense again--the way it was when I was a little, little kid. Expectation and fear (anxiety) always keep tossing us out into an imagined future and deprive us of being right where we are in the present.

Recently I took myself on a journey to be alone. I left everything familiar and just wandered for 4 months. I recommend some form of shake-up for your life. You are right IMO to call what you are looking for a "magic bullet" and I can hear in your voice under the words that you know you are looking for something more than that. Don't fall into the trap of thinking there is a chemical answer only. Sure they can work very well temporarily but what you are looking for is deeper. So go deeper in some way that only you can define. Ask for more, find more, give more--I think that will be life-changing for you in a really positive way.

^^ Absolutely spot on.

 

[Dysphoric]

Anedonia to me (an older person) is a word that I have trouble with. I am not trying to deny the existence of it--just take it out of the realm of physical or mental illness and into the realm of spiritual illness. I think when you cannot experience pleasure in your life that your life is not a good fit for you. I also think this is a modern epidemic! Take a good look at your life and then fantasize a life. How are they different? What thoughts does your mind heave up to tell you you can't have the fantasy life (Not enough money, not enough time, too risky, what would people think--whatever)?

I think that being separated from pleasure is a condition in our minds that is fed by two things: expectation and fear. When I started to practice letting go of those two things, pleasure became abundant and intense again--the way it was when I was a little, little kid. Expectation and fear (anxiety) always keep tossing us out into an imagined future and deprive us of being right where we are in the present.

Recently I took myself on a journey to be alone. I left everything familiar and just wandered for 4 months. I recommend some form of shake-up for your life. You are right IMO to call what you are looking for a "magic bullet" and I can hear in your voice under the words that you know you are looking for something more than that. Don't fall into the trap of thinking there is a chemical answer only. Sure they can work very well temporarily but what you are looking for is deeper. So go deeper in some way that only you can define. Ask for more, find more, give more--I think that will be life-changing for you in a really positive way.

^^ Absolutely spot on.

Refer to my last post!
This might apply to some peoples situation, but I'm 99% sure it is a neurological issue. One thing I've been looking at for sometime now is Tianeptine, but its not available here in the U.S.

 

[a dream]

I am an occasional stimulant user (30 mg Vyvanse 0-5 days/week) and experience anhedonia most of the time. It's been going on for a while, with occasional breaks that are like hypo-hypomanic episodes. For a long time I thought it was a symptom of depression but it usually persists independent of mood.

I have tried tianeptine (Stablon, manufactured by Servier) and it seems to do nothing for me, although I've never actually used it as indicated while not taking another serotonergic drug. I have taken doses ranging from 12.5 mg (3x daily for a few weeks, while on Zoloft and/or Zyprexa and perhaps on its own) to 187.5 mg (one-off, while on Zoloft) and have never felt euphoria. I may try it again once I am off the Zoloft.

I am a fast responder to SSRIs & become hypomanic on them. Besides sleep loss, excess spending, and disinterest in taking care of myself, Zoloft is an excellent antidepressant for me. It doesn't quite fix anhedonia for normal everyday activities, but gives me way more motivation in working towards interesting projects than any stimulant I've ever taken. The closest cure for anhedonia I have right now is a very low dose of Zoloft + a few other drugs + a few drinks. Not good or sustainable at all, but it makes it possible for me to enjoy life for a few hours. Zoloft greatly potentiates alcohol for me.

Pramipexole (dopamine receptor agonist) is of interest to me. I may be able to get it prescribed (or try it on my own if I really want). Tranylcypromine (Parnate) is also something I would like to try, but I'd have to stop taking 2 or 3 other drugs right now in order to try it safely and I don't think I would be able to do that without falling into depression and becoming unable to work. I've taken another MAOI, selegiline (Emsam transdermal patch), but it had no effect.

At some point in the past two years, I lost the ability to feel euphoria on drugs. Ritalin + alcohol used to be ecstasy-like for me; last time I tried it it barely worked, while taking no other drugs besides weed. Hydrocodone was quite euphoric too and I got no nausea, also while on weed - hydrocodone and oxycodone are actually dysphoric now.

 

[pinpoint]

OP - everything that you've stated has come as no surprise to me. I too was Rx'd amphetamines for symptoms of ADHD. What you're experiencing is definitely dopamine related so a chemical answer outside of the realm of dopamine is unlikely to help. I, like many, have become sensitized to stimulants.. they are no longer euphoric but rather anxiety provoking. However when I'm not on them I feel there is something missing. Introducing a new chemical fix will temporarily solve your problem until inevitable tolerance. At that point you have no choice but to either increase your dose, which will simultaneously increase side effects (re: anxiety) or stop intake, which will result in withdrawal and receptor downregulation. Either choice will result in you being back at square 1. It's a real catch-22 and one that gets many caught in a vicious cycle. You have two choices.. you know what you need to do.

There is a particular quote I find accurate:

"A mind that is stretched by a new experience can never go back to its old dimensions."

If you must turn to a chemical solution to a chemically-made problem please look into something such as deprenyl or other MAO-B inhibitors. Research their effects (AND INTERACTIONS!) and decide whether this may be an option for you. I'm currently on modafinil (Provigil), which gives me the alertness and focus without the body load (since Adderall gave me Raynauds Disease).

Good luck.

 

[Dysphoric]

OP - everything that you've stated has come as no surprise to me. I too was Rx'd amphetamines for symptoms of ADHD. What you're experiencing is definitely dopamine related so a chemical answer outside of the realm of dopamine is unlikely to help. I, like many, have become sensitized to stimulants.. they are no longer euphoric but rather anxiety provoking. However when I'm not on them I feel there is something missing. Introducing a new chemical fix will temporary solve your problem until inevitable tolerance. At that point you have no choice but to either increase your dose, which will simultaneously increase side effects (re: anxiety) or stop intake, which will result in withdrawal and receptor downregulation. Either choice will result in you being back at square 1. It's a real catch-22 and that gets many caught in a vicious cycle. You have two choices.. you know what you need to do.

There is a particular quote I find accurate:

"A mind that is stretched by a new experience can never go back to its old dimensions."

Good luck.

I haven't taken a stimulant in years. I'm trying to look at stuff a little more subtle now like say tianeptine. At this point I feel like an AD would help, especially something like an SSRE instead of an SSRI.

 

[pinpoint]

No way to tell you if it'll be the medicine of your dreams or a nightmare.. just doesn't make sense that serotonin would be involved in your specific case. If you were using MDMA, then yes, that'd make sense. The reason I mentioned an MAO-B inhibitor is because it works on your dopamine system.. unlike MAO-A inhibitors. If MAOI's don't work for you perhaps try something like Welbutrin or Effexor.. at least these are reuptake inhibtors at DA/NE sites.

 

[Dysphoric]

If you must turn to a chemical solution to a chemically-made problem please look into something such as deprenyl or other MAO-B inhibitors. Research their effects (AND INTERACTIONS!) and decide whether this may be an option for you. I'm currently on modafinil (Provigil), which gives me the alertness and focus without the body load (since Adderall gave me Raynauds Disease).

Luckily I saw your edit was made after my latest reply.

Anyways, Desmethoxyyangonin (found in kava) is a reversible MAO-B. Funny because I was looking into buying some kava in another tab.

just doesn't make sense that serotonin would be involved in your specific case.

I'm fairly certain Tianeptine also works with dopamine indirectly. Not to mention its not just a dopamine issue I'm afraid. I also just lack overall happiness which is more of a serotonin thing. I think both my DA and 5-ht is out of whack.

 

[Dysphoric]

Seriously, no one has any input other than environmental changes? That's not going to help.

 

[herbavore]

Seriously, no one has any input other than environmental changes? That's not going to help.

I definitely was not talking about an environmental change. I was talking about a change in how you view your own unhappiness. It seems like you are looking for a medication at the exclusion of going deeper. I am not trying to ignore the fact that you believe you have a neurological problem and that finding the right chemical is the solution--I just think you may be selling yourself short by limiting your exploration to that alone.

You started a thread in which you asked people to weigh in with advice, similar experiences and opinions. So far several people have taken the time to read what you wrote and to respond with empathy for your situation and opinions on things you might try. I'm sure there will be more responses as time goes on, but remember that none of us are going to be able to give you anything more than our own experiences.

 

[Dysphoric]

I definitely was not talking about an environmental change. I was talking about a change in how you view your own unhappiness. It seems like you are looking for a medication at the exclusion of going deeper. I am not trying to ignore the fact that you believe you have a neurological problem and that finding the right chemical is the solution--I just think you may be selling yourself short by limiting your exploration to that alone.

You started a thread in which you asked people to weigh in with advice, similar experiences and opinions. So far several people have taken the time to read what you wrote and to respond with empathy for your situation and opinions on things you might try. I'm sure there will be more responses as time goes on, but remember that none of us are going to be able to give you anything more than our own experiences.

I know. Like I mentioned before, thanks, but I'm seriously just frustrated after 4 years of dealing with it. I've already had one of my teachers a while ago tell me to not view it negatively and take on a more positive optimist outlook on things, but I don't know. Its not only that but I've been lacking in the motivation department pretty severely and have even taken on a 10+ hour sleep schedule due to how bored and lackluster life is for the most part. I feel like if I could just make this slight change, be it psychologically or neurologically. I could finally get out of this rut. I'm so close yet so far.

 

[herbavore]

^ I hear ya and I don't want you to think I am trying to minimize anything. I went through a few years of feeling very disconnected to life when I was young and it was soul killing. I think it is only because I am sixty now, and I can look back and say truly that nothing worked except the hard painful work of going deeper and deeper into my own mind's traps. I have a friend that says, always start by asking yourself what you are getting from something you perceive as negative (in my case, anxiety). That would not have made sense to me years ago but now it does. We hold ourselves down way more than our external environment usually does and we do it with thought patterns. Shaming yourself out of the thought patterns ("you should think more positively", "other people have it worse" etc) rarely does anything but deepen the rut.

For me the most useful way of thinking is to continually ask myself what kind of life I want. Imagine it. Tell myself ways to go for it, point my compass and then start the slow and often tedious work of changing whatever it is that is holding me back. (In my case it is usually fear of failure but it is worth getting to know what it is for you.)

 

[JJ-180]

I have a real problem finding joy in anything. At a spiritual as well as a physical level. I have treatment resistant depression and GAD and the anhedonic state is well known to me. It cuts my connections to my life,my God,aesthetic feelings,emotions other than indifference, friends etc.

 

[Achten]

I'm kind of surprised no one mentioned nootropics. I use Noopept. Does wonders for my motivation. Not the same as anhedonia, I know, but chemically slightly related, not ?

I used weed way too often and although I had no problem quitting, I did have a period where I found it difficult to enjoy things. I worked through this period with psychedelics (low dose, once or twice a week) but that's no solution in the longterm ofcourse. I think it stems from a serious dissatisfaction with myself and the world. Despair can be used as a vehicle to surrender. And through surrendering I can get closer to it. Whatever it is. And only if I let myself surrender. Constant struggle with the ego for me. I thought psychedelics could release me and they did show me a new world but afterwards I realized you just wake up at the rate that you wake up. You can't force the snake to shed the skin, it has to come off itself.

I took the liberty of paraphrasing Alpert's quotes on awakening, big inspiration for me.

As is Twin Peaks: (Sorry for the cheesy quotes but I find they are better at conveying what I want to say than my own words)

"Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Yet there are those who open many eyes. Eyes are the mirror of the soul, someone has said. So we look closely at the eyes to see the nature of the soul. Sometimes when we see the eyes — those horrible times when we see the eyes, eyes that ... that have no soul — then we know a darkness, then we wonder: where is the beauty? There is none if the eyes are soulless."

"Complications set in — yes, complications. How many times have we heard: 'it's simple'. Nothing is simple. We live in a world where nothing is simple. Each day, just when we think we have a handle on things, suddenly some new element is introduced and everything is complicated once again. What is the secret? What is the secret to simplicity, to the pure and simple life? Are our appetites, our desires undermining us? Is the cart in front of the horse?"

"The beautiful thing about treasure is that it exists. It exists to be found. How beautiful it is to find treasure. Where is the treasure, that when found, leaves one eternally happy? I think we all know it exists. Some say it is inside us — inside us one and all. That would be strange. It would be so near. Then why is it so hard to find, and so difficult to attain?"

"Log Lady: [voiceover] There are clues everywhere — all around us. But the puzzle maker is clever. The clues, although surrounding us, are somehow mistaken for something else. And the something else — the wrong interpretation of the clues — we call our world. Our world is a magical smoke screen. How should we interpret the happy song of the meadowlark, or the robust flavor of a wild strawberry?"

Good luck with finding the answers. I really believe we are not faced with things we cannot deal with.

 

[Dysphoric]

Well, I just recently had some tobacco the other day, and I can definitely say that it combats my symptoms fairly effectively. I used to smoke, and I did realize that I felt a little worse off without it, but I didn't realize just how effective of an Anti-depressant it was. It provides a soft euphoria for several minutes and then a sense of well-being for the next several hours, without a crash.

This is really annoying. Why is it that the only thing that seems to work very efficiently have to be very physiologically harmful?! I'm just mainly concerned about is my heart.

Why does it have to be this way?

 

[a dream]

How did you consume the tobacco?

Tobacco has lots of psychoactive compounds including MAOIs, and I think some are only effective by smoking.

I don't consume tobacco/nicotine regularly but one of the best memories and most enjoyable times was driving around in a national park, and I attribute that to consuming snus during that trip. That trip was actually during the only period (of about a week) that I'd not been on any other drug since 2011.

The best part was actually driving back towards the entrance, after I'd had a few of them. But then I started to feel terrible a few minutes later and had slightly overdosed, and sat in the car for an hour at the visitors center before continuing on. (I felt fine after that)

 

[Dysphoric]

Smoked.

Also, I'm aware of the MAO alkaloids.

 

[Abject]

Dysphoric before blaming your "brain chemistry" I suggest you learn the very basics e.g. the binding profile of amphetamine, the half-life and regeneration rate of dopamine and serotonin neurotransmitters/receptors, etc.

After 4 years your brain would have recovered, our brains are determined for neuroplasticity.

As for tobacco, I used to get a similar effect but within under half a year of more frequent smoking it has lost that effect (even straight through a bong)

10+ hours of sleep doesn't seem like much to me. I don't have any suggestions for your dullness, other than to cultivate things you care about/enjoy.
If your life itself is lackluster and boring, it would be unnatural for you not to feel bored and lacking.

 

[Dysphoric]

Dysphoric before blaming your "brain chemistry" I suggest you learn the very basics e.g. the binding profile of amphetamine, the half-life and regeneration rate of dopamine and serotonin neurotransmitters/receptors, etc.

Neuropharmacology is my cup of tea. I'm aware of amphetamines pharmacodynamics and pharmacokinetics.

As I said already. Before all of my prescription amphetamine use I've always been somewhat lacking. Its just worse now.

 

[herbavore]

Have you ever tried electronic cigarettes? I'm wondering if they would do the same thing for you without as many health risks?