Anhedonia for years after smoking opioids

[Merkury]

So many years ago I had the habit of smoking street opioids . Needless to say, it ruined my mental health. After kickin' the addiction by myself, I found myself hopeless, lonely, depressed and different than before. Probably my brain had quit producing the 'good stuff' because the substance was providing big rushes of endorphine.
So, here I am constantly researching the matter, trying some meds, quitting meds (paroxetine) because they made me feel even more apethetic and NUMB .
The only thing that seems to work is EXERCISING, however, when one is depressed it takes a HUGE amount of effort just to put running shoes and actually go outside, one
would really love to feel a little bit better even before getting out, so it didn't feel like such a burden.

So, I would like to hear different opinions on this subject,, like what works, what doesn't and so on......

I've tried GINSENG and GINGKO and they seems to activate my mind and concentration a bit more, but that's it.... I would probably like to enhance GABA a bit more......

 

[Mafioso]

Honestly, I've found exercise and eating healthy to be the only things that really make me feel better. Being around good people can help as well, but if you're like me, then most people won't bring the type of excitement/pleasure you are looking for- which is nothing on them, just I tend to be an adrenaline junkie and I hate small talk. Exercise, and similar activities, can trigger the release of endorphins, which literally means "natural morphine", as well as a lot of other pleasurable/enjoyable neurotransmitters like dopamine as well. It's why some people say they are "addicted" to working out.

Having a job and being able to take care of myself helps a lot with my self esteem, and forces me to stay active. I find when I allow myself to lay around and fall into a depression, things only get worse. It's usually pretty hard to pull yourself out of it as well.. Helps if you can meet someone or some people so you have things to look forward to(going to the gym/hiking/coffee with a friend). When I get isolated I try not to think about friends or what I'm "missing" out on because it makes me feel anxious- but at the same time, having friends who care about me can give me something to be excited about that isn't drug related.

I guess the biggest thing is finding something to be passionate about, and that's pretty hard when you feel you have no passion. For me, doing simple tasks/chores, like cleaning, organizing, and yard work while also practicing gratitude(rather than complaining or hating it aloud/in your head) can really help motivate me to do things that I enjoy, and ultimately become more passionate about. Being mindful of my thoughts and making sure I am grateful and appreciative of the things and people I do have in my life is a big part. When I'm unhappy, it's so easy to look at these things are unimportant, boring, and trivial.

GABAerigic drugs help me overcome the anxiety/depression, but I've basically switched from struggling with opiates(and many other drugs) to struggling on and off with benzos. Initially things are great, I'm able to function and get things accomplished- but it seems to always lead to more problems than it initially solved, leading me to resolve to get off them for good. Honestly, benzos are a terrible way to deal with anxiety, ime. They are band-aid over a wound that needs stitches. I would look into exposure therapy and cognitive behavioral therapy before reaching for a chem to stimulate GABA. They definitely can be beneficial, mostly in the short term, but I think a better option is to slowly expose yourself to the things that spike your anxiety, and slowly build tolerance/ability to manage that way. With benzos, they work great when they are there, but when they aren't, things get worse in my experience(rebound anxiety, never really learning how to cope/manage my own thoughts/feelings).

 

[Merkury]

Thanks for your insight. While I've sure had my dose of Benzos in the past (especially Xanax and Delorazepam), their side-effects were so crazy that I haven't touch one in 4 years now. The odd thing is, as a musician (with undiagnosed ADD), the only time I've managed to actually make a record, an album, was on DELORAZEPAM. I took it daily and made a record in a W E E K . ( I tooks drops and Coffee together, and I felt so concentrated I was unstoppable ).
But when I get back to 'normal' state, my mind seems to wander at 300 km/h , so it's virtually impossible to concentrate on something for long time.....

 

[Cudi]

I feel you .. Right now i feel like my drug abuse has permanently fucked my mind. In reality, it's probably just anxiety but that doesn't make the situation any better. Our only solution is to stay completely sober, exercise, eat well, and be productive in our own personal fulfilling way. That's the puzzle that I'm trying to figure the fuck out. I just want my head to feel normal. Why must it be so hard? Fuck it, we've gotta keep moving on.

 

[Mafioso]

Thanks for your insight. While I've sure had my dose of Benzos in the past (especially Xanax and Delorazepam), their side-effects were so crazy that I haven't touch one in 4 years now. The odd thing is, as a musician (with undiagnosed ADD), the only time I've managed to actually make a record, an album, was on DELORAZEPAM. I took it daily and made a record in a W E E K . ( I tooks drops and Coffee together, and I felt so concentrated I was unstoppable ).
But when I get back to 'normal' state, my mind seems to wander at 300 km/h , so it's virtually impossible to concentrate on something for long time.....

I get something similar on low dose of benzos. I become a lot more productive so long as I don't take enough to really sedate me. I think it's similar to how some guys might not talk to girls at all until they've had a drink or two, a lot of it has to do with inhibitions. I know for myself, I am extremely critical of myself and behavior, as well as expect everyone to disprove and dislike what I do(grew up with a narcissitic father). I think that the benzos allow me to get out of my head/not care enough that I am no longer holding myself back, which then allows me to do things that I normally would find a reason not to do because of fear of anxiety.

It's not really a long term fix though, and relying on benzos just makes me more hesitant to do anything that might make me nervous without them. Ultimately I need to be more comfortable with myself, and learn how to cope and mange my own emotions without the use of drugs. Like you said, the side effects are pretty severe and usually it's a 1 step forward, 2 steps back kind of deal. Ultimately, it's takes slowly getting out of my comfort zone and being mindful of my thoughts and way of thinking that will hold me back/cause anxiety.

For me, I think the struggle to focus comes from a low level of dopamine, as drugs that stimulate dopamine tend to momentarily solve this- but one thing I've noticed about exercise/working out is that it can give a similar boost in dopamine, at healthy levels that are much more sustainable. Making sure you are consuming enough protein/essential amino acids can help as well, as its what your body uses to make neurotransmitters/hormones like dopamine, serotonin, GABA, etc.

When my mind starts racing and my anxiety feels out of control, one thing that seems to always help is stopping whatever I'm doing(if not at work) and going for a run, bike ride, or workout. I'll tell myself I will check back after this workout/ride, put in some headphones and turn up the music and focus on pushing myself physically. The hardest part is getting started- if you can get past that initial resistance, it's usually extremely rewarding just to know you overcame your own thoughts- that you don't have to be in your own way. I try to do this early in the day/morning because this energy will carry throughout the day, sometimes into the next where I wake up feeling better than when I don't workout. Also, I've heard exercise in the morning can lower levels of cortisol throughout the rest of the day.

 

[Merkury]

I get something similar on low dose of benzos. I become a lot more productive so long as I don't take enough to really sedate me. I think it's similar to how some guys might not talk to girls at all until they've had a drink or two, a lot of it has to do with inhibitions. I know for myself, I am extremely critical of myself and behavior, as well as expect everyone to disprove and dislike what I do(grew up with a narcissitic father). I think that the benzos allow me to get out of my head/not care enough that I am no longer holding myself back, which then allows me to do things that I normally would find a reason not to do because of fear of anxiety.

That was deep man, thanks for sharing your experience. I grew up with NPD parents as well .

I Making sure you are consuming enough protein/essential amino acids can help as well, as its what your body uses to make neurotransmitters/hormones like dopamine, serotonin, GABA, etc.

Excellent, you confirmed my 'hypothesis' that proteins are CRUCIAL for mental health ( actually, IME, eating Carbs + Protein at every meal ).
Too bad I crave Carbs all the time and I really have to push myself to eat proteins.

The hardest part is getting started- if you can get past that initial resistance, it's usually extremely rewarding

Well, being slighty depressed at the moment ( winter climate / grey days / momentary unemployment ), I find it really really hard
to get out of the house. However I will remember your words and try on my skin if it works .

 

[Merkury]

I feel you .. Right now i feel like my drug abuse has permanently fucked my mind. In reality, it's probably just anxiety but that doesn't make the situation any better. Our only solution is to stay completely sober, exercise, eat well, and be productive in our own personal fulfilling way. That's the puzzle that I'm trying to figure the fuck out. I just want my head to feel normal. Why must it be so hard? Fuck it, we've gotta keep moving on.

When I quit drugs, in 2010, ( occasional use, not daily, but it was enough to fuck up my neurotransmitters ), I was a WRECK.
I had small panic attacks if I went, say , to a club . So what I used to do was getting really, really drunk. Then things went even worse,
because the next days I would feel like shit, completely empty. It took many months to rebuild confidence and healthy habits. But I think I did well. It takes patience.

 

[G_Chem]

That was deep man, thanks for sharing your experience. I grew up with NPD parents as well .



Excellent, you confirmed my 'hypothesis' that proteins are CRUCIAL for mental health ( actually, IME, eating Carbs + Protein at every meal ).
Too bad I crave Carbs all the time and I really have to push myself to eat proteins.



Well, being slighty depressed at the moment ( winter climate / grey days / momentary unemployment ), I find it really really hard
to get out of the house. However I will remember your words and try on my skin if it works .

Do you consume any stimulants daily even caffeine? I find carbs cravings get worse through the day the more I eat them. So start your day with as little as possible and hold out until later at night to start indulging.

Caffeine also makes carb cravings horrible.

-GC

 

[achemicalreaction]

So many years ago I had the habit of smoking street opioids . Needless to say, it ruined my mental health. After kickin' the addiction by myself, I found myself hopeless, lonely, depressed and different than before. Probably my brain had quit producing the 'good stuff' because the substance was providing big rushes of endorphine.
So, here I am constantly researching the matter, trying some meds, quitting meds (paroxetine) because they made me feel even more apethetic and NUMB .
The only thing that seems to work is EXERCISING, however, when one is depressed it takes a HUGE amount of effort just to put running shoes and actually go outside, one
would really love to feel a little bit better even before getting out, so it didn't feel like such a burden.

So, I would like to hear different opinions on this subject,, like what works, what doesn't and so on......

I've tried GINSENG and GINGKO and they seems to activate my mind and concentration a bit more, but that's it.... I would probably like to enhance GABA a bit more......

I can only speak for myself, and having gotten into opioids much much later in life my source of depression isn’t opioid related (though I’m sure they do not help).
Anti-depressants mostly suck, but the one I found most helpful when I was lethargic and going through the longest down period (3 years) was Welbutrin. I was given Ritalin as well but I only used it sparingly as it just gave me anxiety. Trying out medications takes at at the very least a few weeks to start to work. It gave me some energy. Unsure if you only want over the counter things. Most supplements never did a thing for me but B vitamins and L-Tyrosine gave me a bit more energy. Finding a good doctor could be useful to explore medication.
Excersize and sex will temporarily elevate moods until your brain heals, if you had depression before you started the opioids though it might be best to consult with a professional.
Watching a lot of stand up, emotionally complex movies or books, anything that exposed me to intensity was helpful in peeling away some of the numbness sometimes.Guided meditation even.

Doing very small things (laundry, going for a walk, doing something simple for a friend, cooking) and not being too hard on yourself will go a long way towards learning how to deal with it and eventually leaving it behind. Yes it’s taking a lot of effort but the fact you are trying says a lot. Getting out of your headspace is important too. I found art therapy to be extremely helpful, as I had a hard time talking about things until I wasn’t focused on what I was saying.
Hang in there, it can only get better and congrats on kicking.

 

[Merkury]

Do you consume any stimulants daily even caffeine? I find carbs cravings get worse through the day the more I eat them. So start your day with as little as possible and hold out until later at night to start indulging.

Caffeine also makes carb cravings horrible.

-GC

yes I do take espresso coffee, otherwise my brain switch stays in the 'off' position

 

[Merkury]

Anti-depressants mostly suck, but the one I found most helpful when I was lethargic and going through the longest down period (3 years) was Welbutrin.

well that's really interesting you mention this particular drug, 'cause I've been 'investigating' it on the web some time ago. maybe next time I see my doc I'll ask him about it ! cheers

 

[achemicalreaction]

well that's really interesting you mention this particular drug, 'cause I've been 'investigating' it on the web some time ago. maybe next time I see my doc I'll ask him about it ! cheers

hey well good luck, that’s a long time to feel like that!

 

[Cudi]

When I quit drugs, in 2010, ( occasional use, not daily, but it was enough to fuck up my neurotransmitters ), I was a WRECK.
I had small panic attacks if I went, say , to a club . So what I used to do was getting really, really drunk. Then things went even worse,
because the next days I would feel like shit, completely empty. It took many months to rebuild confidence and healthy habits. But I think I did well. It takes patience.

How many weeks/months can I expect for things to go back to "normal"? The thing is, I can't tell if my head feels fucked right now from benzos, or from MDMA abuse in the last couple months. I've binged both lately. Thienodiazepines too. I'm really scared that it's the MDMA and that my head is never gonna get better. I've WD'd twice from benzos, and this just feels different. It genuinely physically hurts and my anxiety is through the roof. Stayed off benzos for 10 days and I felt the same. Awful. So lastnight I caved and took 2mg Etizolam. It immediately helped after 45 min and my head felt fine (almost). I then was able to fall asleep. So my theory now is to take Etizolam every night until the MDMA recovery bullshit has sorted itself out in my head. Or perhaps it won't sort itself out unless I'm completely sober? Idk I feel fucking trapped for sure.

 

[Merkury]

How many weeks/months can I expect for things to go back to "normal"? The thing is, I can't tell if my head feels fucked right now from benzos, or from MDMA abuse in the last couple months. I've binged both lately. Thienodiazepines too. I'm really scared that it's the MDMA and that my head is never gonna get better. I've WD'd twice from benzos, and this just feels different. It genuinely physically hurts and my anxiety is through the roof. Stayed off benzos for 10 days and I felt the same. Awful. So lastnight I caved and took 2mg Etizolam. It immediately helped after 45 min and my head felt fine (almost). I then was able to fall asleep. So my theory now is to take Etizolam every night until the MDMA recovery bullshit has sorted itself out in my head. Or perhaps it won't sort itself out unless I'm completely sober? Idk I feel fucking trapped for sure.

It will take months, but if you keep taking stuff you'll mess up every time

 

[Cudi]

It will take months, but if you keep taking stuff you'll mess up every time

Goddammit.. Yeah makes sense. I wish my brain had a repair software update right now

 

[Mafioso]

yes I do take espresso coffee, otherwise my brain switch stays in the 'off' position

Caffeine dependence is real... it's a psychoactive drug as well. I'm pretty sure all the studies done on it report that the users cognition performance is actually slightly decreased than when sober, stating that although more "awake", they were not necessarily more alert due to identifying false positives.

But hey, in all honesty, caffeine dependence isn't really that terrible- and chances are that your carb cravings are more tied to emotional eating/coping with depression than it is tied to your caffeine intake. Entirely speculating on this based on my own experience, but I think it's likely tied to the dopamine stimulation that one gets from eating, especially foods high in carb. I also theorize it's related to heart rate and blood sugar levels, but things get pretty complex there. I know for myself, I crave that relaxed feeling after just eating a ton of food. When I first quit opioids, overeating was one of the only ways I could essentially "sedate" myself.

I would really suggest forcing yourself to get up and go on a walk/jog first thing in the morning. Maybe have the coffee set on a time for the morning so within 10-20 minutes of waking up, you have already drank your first cup and are putting on shoes and on your way out the door. Get your momentum going as early as possible. Don't wait for it to come, get it yourself. It will never come if you wait for it.

If you can't even seem to force yourself to do it, addressing the depression in another way is probably necessary. Being part of a group can really help with motivation. Pursuing an old passion or hobby can be great, or trying new things can be great as well. Whatever lights that spark even just a little at first. Cognitive behavioral therapy and mindfulness can help as well, especially if you are the one standing in your own way. Learning your own self-sabotaging behavior and how to counter it can really open a lot of doors. Don't let your own thoughts and behavior keep you from achieving your own goals.

How many weeks/months can I expect for things to go back to "normal"? The thing is, I can't tell if my head feels fucked right now from benzos, or from MDMA abuse in the last couple months. I've binged both lately. Thienodiazepines too. I'm really scared that it's the MDMA and that my head is never gonna get better. I've WD'd twice from benzos, and this just feels different. It genuinely physically hurts and my anxiety is through the roof. Stayed off benzos for 10 days and I felt the same. Awful. So lastnight I caved and took 2mg Etizolam. It immediately helped after 45 min and my head felt fine (almost). I then was able to fall asleep. So my theory now is to take Etizolam every night until the MDMA recovery bullshit has sorted itself out in my head. Or perhaps it won't sort itself out unless I'm completely sober? Idk I feel fucking trapped for sure.

I think we've spoken about this already, but I put myself in a similar position not long ago. Best thing I can recommend is to get through the MDMA recovery before trying to stop benzo use. NEVER abruptly stop benzo use. It would be a good time to create a taper plan, so you can safely step yourself off benzos in 1-3 months, depending on your daily dose. For more info, please start your own thread here in TDS about the subject. Or feel free to PM me.

 

[Merkury]

chances are that your carb cravings are more tied to emotional eating/coping with depression than it is tied to your caffeine intake. Entirely speculating on this based on my own experience, but I think it's likely tied to the dopamine stimulation that one gets from eating, especially foods high in carb. I also theorize it's related to heart rate and blood sugar levels, but things get pretty complex there.

Excellent point here. Well, I'm trying to completely remove coffee from the equation at this point, I consider it a drug 100 % . I used to have FIVE CUPS 3 years ago, 5 Espressos per day. Of course the cups of Joe were to 'heal' a state of depression.....

I think my brain will have to get used to making dopamine on its own. I'm jogging everyday, and it sure helps with the mood ! However, there's nothing that stops the craving. Doc says my blood sugar are perfectly fine. My body weight is in the norm, I'm very conscious on what to eat / when to eat it. But man, yesterday I ate a 500 grams American Pizza..... it was like a shot of Serotonine direct in the brain ! I wish I could always feel that way ! On the other hand, there's no limits to the protein that I could eat. Eating protein, to me, feels like I'm not eating. Probably the best would be an equal combo of Carbs / Protein. Hamburgers for instance.

I think we've spoken about this already, but I put myself in a similar position not long ago. Best thing I can recommend is to get through the MDMA recovery before trying to stop benzo use. NEVER abruptly stop benzo use. It would be a good time to create a taper plan, so you can safely step yourself off benzos in 1-3 months, depending on your daily dose. For more info, please start your own thread here in TDS about the subject. Or feel free to PM me.

Absolutely what he said !! When I did benzos, I once almost had convulsions (at school ! ) by not taking the dose. Scary stuff !

 

[MJ420]

Time. Exercise and eat good but the biggest is just time for your nervous system to readjust with no drugs. Last time I quit it took 6-8 months before I started to get really happy