Stimulants amphetamines and the heart (wtf is going on here?)

[Crankinit]

amphetamines and the heart (testing for damage)

Hey guys, been a recreational meth user for 2 or 3 years now, aside from a few periods of excess it's mostly been moderate, up a day or two, crash out, maybe a small bowl here and there over the next few days to get me up and ready for work.

I recently came into posession of a quantity of dexamphetamine pills, which I've tried before and enjoyed. I got stuck into them over the course of 4 days, thursday through to sunday (though I forced myself to crash out and sleep a few times), maybe 40 - 60mg a day over the first 3 days, then on sunday I had maybe 20mg through the day, dosed another 20mg around 9pm, then took another 60 - 80mg over the course of the next 8 hours, as well as 9 or 10 drinks.

Around 5am my heart start beating heavily and rapidly. I ignored it at first, obviously it just comes with the territory, but eventually it got to the point where it was quite uncomfortable. Heart beating very vast and hard, occasionally it would randomly slow down to a crawl for a few moments them slam back into gear, I dosed 40mg of oxycodone in the hopes that it would abate the problem, but no such luck. This went on for a few hours, finally slowing down around 8 or 9. Afterwards I had random bouts of palpitations every few hours for the next 2 - 3 days (usually brought on by physical exertion), during which I stayed relatively drug free, barring some oxy the day after.

At first I just wrote it off as anxiety stemming from excessive speed use, waited a few days, decided to try it again in a low dose. 5mg was fine, but 10mg or over would set off more chest discomfort. I took 8 or 9 days off speed, during which time the random palpitations I was getting during the day dissapeared, then this morning tried again. After 10mg I was fine, but when I dosed another 5mg (for a lowly 15mg total) I had another bout of severe palpitations, fast and erratic heartbeat lasting an hour or so, after which I settled into an uneasy low dose speed high with the occasional chest discomfort.

I used to get panic attacks back when I was taking MDMA fairly heavily and I'm familiar with the sensation, but this seems different. Firstly, the heartbeat was not only very fast but also very erratic, slowing down then speeding up without any change in activity level. Secondly, it doesn't 'feel' like a psychological issue. There's no accompanying panic or dysphoria (except for some concern over my physical health, for obvious reasons), in fact I remained quite calm through most of it, as calm as you could expect anyway.

But I'm not sure what that leaves. The doses I was taking were maybe a little on the high side, but certainly not enough to trigger some kind of cardiological incident, I would imagine anyway, and I don't have any pre-existing conditions in that area as far as I know.

Sorry about the wall of text, but I wanted to be thorough. Is anyone able to shed some light on what's going on here? Cheers

 

[The Chemist]

cardiac arrhythmia?

 

[Crankinit]

That's a fairly broad term though isn't it? Is it something that can just be suddenly set off like that?

Another thing that occured to me is blood pressure. I know I've had blood pressure above the average for my age in the past, I also take ibuprofen fairly regularly, and lately (as in from a few weeks prior to the events I mentioned) I've been getting a sensation of pressure in the eyes/front of my head, which is apparently sometimes indicative of high blood pressure. At first I just ignored it and it didn't seem relevant to the subject at hand, but could an already high blood pressure combined with amphetamine use lead to these symptoms?

 

[chompy]

when i used to use speed/meth and had those problems i would eat a banana for the potassium and hydrate. i figured those uncomfortable symptoms could be a case of hypoglycemia or low blood sugar

 

[Nikolai]

Are you taking anything else? I dont know much about dexamphetamine or why this happened unless you just took to much. A very rapid and dangerous heartbeat can occur when mixing amphetamines with the wrong drug, such as an anti-depressant which can happen accidentaly and be very dangerous. I dont know, but if your heart rate sped up to the point to where it was uncomfortable then I think something was wrong. Who knows though.

 

[sir_thizzalot]

I've also noticed that my heart beat seems "strong" from dexamp. Usually it's under 130 when I'm not too active(almost always under 120 if I'm not moving around actually), though, but I can feel it in multiple spots in my body, especially ones with anything against them(arm on desk, stuff like that, and in my head).
Could taking time release aspirin help keep BP low while on amp? Any bad effects that could happen?

I've also noticed that for maby a week after using dexamp(a week off it), my heart rate gets high fast when I start anything like running, more than it would if I hadn't used any dex any time recently. Is this just natural? It's worse after using the ritalin drug a week prior than it is dexamp a week prior(I never use ritalin now, it's a fucking horrible drug).

 

[Crankinit]

Are you taking anything else? I dont know much about dexamphetamine or why this happened unless you just took to much. A very rapid and dangerous heartbeat can occur when mixing amphetamines with the wrong drug, such as an anti-depressant which can happen accidentaly and be very dangerous. I dont know, but if your heart rate sped up to the point to where it was uncomfortable then I think something was wrong. Who knows though.

No other drugs or medications except the oxycodone and alcohol I mentioned, and that was only on the first occasion.

I've also noticed that my heart beat seems "strong" from dexamp. Usually it's under 130 when I'm not too active(almost always under 120 if I'm not moving around actually), though, but I can feel it in multiple spots in my body, especially ones with anything against them(arm on desk, stuff like that, and in my head).
Could taking time release aspirin help keep BP low while on amp? Any bad effects that could happen?

I've also noticed that for maby a week after using dexamp(a week off it), my heart rate gets high fast when I start anything like running, more than it would if I hadn't used any dex any time recently. Is this just natural? It's worse after using the ritalin drug a week prior than it is dexamp a week prior(I never use ritalin now, it's a fucking horrible drug).

The aspirin thing is a good idea, I'll do some reading into combining it with amphetamines. Interesting that you seem to have a similar experience.

 

[Cloud_9]

The aspirin thing is a good idea, I'll do some reading into combining it with amphetamines. Interesting that you seem to have a similar experience.

Seems to be going along the right track here... but you should see a doctor if things continue to progress.

As a member of the amphetamine medication using class I have had extreme hypertension since about the age of 18-19 when I had a physical and came back about 30 minutes later and 4 nurse checks at 180/110. This was even before amphetamines where introduced to my system.

So I know all about this sorta thing; if you feel the need to talk to a life-minded individual PM me or find my AIM under my avatar. :D

 

[General alcazar]

There are probably one or more things going on here. One is that people can spontaneously develop tachy-arrhythmias, atrial fibrullation and other arrhythmias from using stimulants, particularly over time. This happens to people who use nothing as well, by the way. The other is chronic hypertension, which typically has NO symptoms and can stress the heart (not to mention other organs like the kidneys) to the point where it starts to change and function less efficiently. Again, this can be without any symptoms. I have a few of these problems and am sure that long term stimulant use contributed greatly to them. You need to know where your blood pressure is sober, and if you want to freak yourself out, on meth or other stims. Then, if the arrythmias an oher symptoms persist, an ekg and cardiac ultrasound will help tell you where you stand as far as heart function. What you will still not know is how much of your heart muscle has been damaged (if any). Typically, if you have intolerance to exercise, arrhythmias days after using and a rapid heartrate, there has probably been some damage done.
Good luck and be safe. A lot of this stuff is reversible if you stop. Now I only use stims as a treat very infrequently and stick with things that keep my blood pressure and heartrate down (sadly, the menu is limited with these criteria but better that than dead).

 

[iknowjt]

after years of heavy meth addiction, one morning I stated having an episode of arrhythmia. Every fourth beat was stalling into a halt, instead of beating. It wasn't the sort of thing one only notices when worried about the heart. It stopped me dead in my tracks, very scary.
I think there might have been small amounts of pseudoephedrine or ephedrine in the stuff.

Reading this thread now makes me consider the possibility that it was more triggered by low blood sugar.
Reading on the subject has led me to conclude that, although this episode is a sign that i'm beginning to cross the line over into trouble, it wasn't by itself a life threatening emergency. If that where to happen while experiencing severe dizzyness/fainting, then I should call 911.
If i'm off the mark about any of this, I would be very gratefull if someone pointed it out.

 

[Crankinit]

Hey sorry to bump my old thread, but I figured it was better than making a new once.

Since I posted I've used d-amp/meth several times (usually while drunk, not that that excuses bad decisions), every time with the same result. A few moments of pleasure followed by the same intense heart symptoms, chest pain, severe palpitations, dizziness, high BP/HR. I last used a month ago, ended up having to ditch work because I felt like I was about to collapse, went to a doctor who said my heart rate was somewhere above 180, I can't remember the number for BP but it was also absurdly high.

I've been monitoring my BP/heart rate, heart rate generally floats around 80 if I'm relaxed, but even the slightest stress or exertion sends it and sets off palpitations/shortness of breath/light chest pain. I can't remember the number for BP, but my doctor said it's a little too high, but not enough to be worth treating in itself. I'm mainly worried about my inability to exercise, I've never been a fitness freak, but a short jog, a few pushups, sometimes even standing up sets it off, so I'm being carted off to get some tests done.

The tests ordered are an echocardiogram and a 24 hour halter monitor. If there is a problem, should these be sufficient to pick it up? I was also wondering if I should ask for an exercise test, since symptoms are most apparent when I exercise.

Any input would be appreciated, a little apprehensive about the whole thing :/

 

[Bupe]

Sounds like you need to eat, drink (not alcohol), and not do speed for a few days. Was it XR adderral? I got weird reactions with alcohol and adderal- like these spams where it felt like I was being shocked electrically. Probably too much or the l-amp since I haven't gotten it on just d-amp.

 

[dcraver877]

man i got kind of the same thing from some coke these past couple weeks. I was coming down (about 2 hours after my last line, split about .4 with a friend.). My chest felt really tight and I was feeling really faint in bed. I grabbed my chest and it felt like my heart pulsated and stopped for an entire second....shook really hard, then started beating again. I think I might have had a mini heart attack or something.

My chest still feels a little tight 5 days later so I've been taking aspirin whenever I feel any sort of tightness in my chest. I've also been taking ubiquinol, fish oil, and hemp oil to help repair any damage I may have done. It's pretty scary and I think I'm going to have to stick to opiates instead of uppers for a while. It still feels a tad achey while I'm typing this.

 

[Soap MacTavish]

Those tests should do it. If it's a sharp pain though it might be the vasospasms I mentioned in the other heart issues with Adderall thread.

You really did such low doses, those are all considered pretty close to therapeutic. And for such short amount of time using I'd be very surprised if the Adderall brought this on unless you have a previous underlying condition.

You ever have anything like this when you were younger? Or are you younger now?

 

[Crankinit]

Those tests should do it. If it's a sharp pain though it might be the vasospasms I mentioned in the other heart issues with Adderall thread.

You really did such low doses, those are all considered pretty close to therapeutic. And for such short amount of time using I'd be very surprised if the Adderall brought this on unless you have a previous underlying condition.

You ever have anything like this when you were younger? Or are you younger now?

20, so quite young I guess.

I did at one stage have mild symptoms that were similar, a few years back when I was partying heavily with meth/MDMA, I was getting slight palpitations/shortness of breath, just wrote it off as anxiety (seems to come hand in hand with heavy MDMA use for me) and it dissapeared within a few months of me stopping the drugs, but due to a whole host of issues I won't go into here my health was a wreck at the time (thus my stopping the drugs), so it could have been anything.

If it weren't for the fact that I'm basically incapable of physical exertion right now, I'd say the same, but when it's triggered by exercise, doesn't respond to the traditional treatments for anxiety (piles of benzos) and sticks around even after extended abstinance from stimulants, I begin to wonder if something more serious is going on.

As for the doses, I've always been fairly sensitive to amps, though I'd consider 25 - 30mg quite a solid dose, and well above therapeutic range. Generally therapeutic doses here are 5 - 10mg a few times a day.

 

[Soap MacTavish]

In my experience I have been prescibed currently 60mg daily (30mg X 2 XR) plus a script of 30 X 10mg IR for if I need a booster in the evening, and I often do. If you check the ADD forum sites it is the norm to be in the 20mg twice daily range and up to 120mg daily. My psychiatrist said she has patients on 120mg daily. So I think you are still at low doses. I have taken 90mg in one shot.

Yeah I think the tests will help. Being unable to do physical things is strange especially after abstaining for so long.

Well, the good news is your going to get the tests, that should allieviate some anxiety.

 

[Depressicaa]

You eating healthy? A lot of fat people have these problems you describe, but I think that its not likely to occur suddenly. Maybe you should get some blood work done.

Occasional panic attacks can be dealt with Xanax. For you, maybe some sort of heart medication such as propanolol could be helpful.

 

[Crankinit]

You eating healthy? A lot of fat people have these problems you describe, but I think that its not likely to occur suddenly. Maybe you should get some blood work done.

Occasional panic attacks can be dealt with Xanax. For you, maybe some sort of heart medication such as propanolol could be helpful.

Relatively healthy diet, I could use more vegetables/fruit in my diet, but I don't drink soft drink and eat very little fast food/junk food these days, I'm just over 80kg at 6'1, so I could lose 5 kilos, but hardly fat. I'm definately out of shape, but not enough to account for what's going on. Prior to the original incident I was a fairly heavy caffeine drinker though, at least 500 - 600mg a day.

It's not a panic attack, as you said, benzos would make those go away, they don't make any difference with these symptoms.

In my experience I have been prescibed currently 60mg daily (30mg X 2 XR) plus a script of 30 X 10mg IR for if I need a booster in the evening, and I often do. If you check the ADD forum sites it is the norm to be in the 20mg twice daily range and up to 120mg daily. My psychiatrist said she has patients on 120mg daily. So I think you are still at low doses. I have taken 90mg in one shot.

Yeah I think the tests will help. Being unable to do physical things is strange especially after abstaining for so long.

Well, the good news is your going to get the tests, that should allieviate some anxiety.

Well XR is different from IR, but that still seems a tad excessive to me if it was prescribed to someone with no tolerance. But I think the culture of prescription drugs is very different in the US to here in Aus, your doctors generally seem happy to prescribe more drugs and at much higher doses than here. And of course tolerance is always a factor. Anyway, that's neither here nor there.

 

[Vaya]

Hey man - I know about about myocardial physiology and a LOT of good stuff has been presented to you by others here. But I just wanted to say that, acutely, the echocardiogram will detect problems. But, as some others have said, it's not an indicator of actual myocardial tissue damage. The 24 hour monitor, though, should provide a plain and thorough readout of the rhythm of spikes in pressure and intraalveolar pressure throughout the day. While you're wearing it, unless otherwise directed, try to stimulate your heart (even briefly) so that the resulting painful spike will register on the monitor. Sometimes, it will be more useful for a doctor who is interpreting the readout to see actual evidence of what seems to be going wrong.

With pre-existing high BP, though, you really need to be careful. And (this is a long thread) but if no one has mentioned it before, taking depressants to counter the effects of arrhythmias (like alcohol and oxycodone) can prove further damaging. Think of a speedball, and the counterbalanced effect it has on the user's heart. And until you get this figured out, FFS, stay off the speed. Is dextroamphetamine worth dying for?

Be well; be safe.

~ vaya

 

[Ksa]

Cut the use of drugs for a while, eat well, sleep well and take supplements.