Benzos Alprazolam vs Valium vs Clonazepam

[slackboxed]

So I was wondering about some benzos. I have been on xanax for a minute now, powdered alprazolam, footballs, bars, you name it, ive consumed it on a regular basis for a good couple of weeks now.

I lost my connection to get more xanies, so now all I can get are kpins and vals. Can one benzo substitute another? Like, for instance, if you are on xanax can you switch over to kpins with out any sort of xanax withdraw?

I was thinking of taking my prescription and trying an online pharmacy instead of going back to the local food store pharmacy because honestly, i've seen pills online for a lot cheaper than the name brand shit i buy in the pharmacy.

 

[burn out]

yes you can substitute other benzos to avoid withdrawals. online pharmacies are a great source of benzos too.

 

[paranoid android]

You can switch over to another benzo without any withdrawals just as long as you switch over to a equal dose of the new benzo.

Clonazepam and xanax are just as strong as each other mg for mg wise so just take the amount of clonazepam that you did xanax. Keep in mind that clonazepam lasts alot longer and has a much longer half life then xanax.

Clonazepams effects can last up to 12 hours depending on tolerance and i guess your own metabolism but xanax only lasts a couple of hours. Xanax also only has a max half life of 12 hours but clonazepam has a half life of 50 hours.

Valium is much weaker mg for mg then xanax but is a good benzo none the less. Potency mg for mg doesn't mean all that much when it comes to how much you like the drug because alot of people still prefer valium over xanax. 0.5mg's of xanax=10mg's of valium. Valiums effects last shorter then clonazepam for alot of people (well most i think) including me. It only lasts 5 hours with me but this could be due to the fact that i have a pretty good benzo tolerance due to being on clonazepam for 2 years.

Valium however has a much longer half life then either clonazepam or xanax. The half life for valiums active metabolites is 200 hours.

 

[ChemicalSmiles]

Clonazepams effects can last up to 12 hours depending on tolerance and i guess your own metabolism but xanax only lasts a couple of hours.

If I ever have a 12 hour Clonazepam ride i'll be happy :D

 

[drunken_etard]

. The half life for valiums active metabolites is 200 hours.

I never knew it was that long...fuck

 

[hatethered]

yeah im prescribed generic klonopin 4mg day i take it right when i wake up...
i may try to switch to 2mg xanax xr twice a day or regular xanax.
if i were to switch to xanax from klonopin...would i feel it more since its a different benzo?

 

[needles]

xanax isn't as long acting as kpin so you would need to dose more often to keep from feeling the difference. Shouldn't be too difficult though if you have a steady supply...

 

[sonic]

if i were to switch to xanax from klonopin...would i feel it more since its a different benzo?

Yes, you would most likely feel it more at first because of the "incomplete cross tolerance" phenomenon that happens when you switch from one drug to another in the same class.

Original poster:
Of course you can switch from one benzo to the next to avoid withdrawal, however you claim you've only been using for a couple of weeks. That shouldn't be long enough to give you serious physical withdrawal effects. I'd recommend getting a small amount of valium to help you taper since it is long lasting and has a long half life. Clonazepam is also long lasting, but it doesn't have quite as long of a half life.
Do just enough to feel normal for another week or so. Decrease your dose a little bit each day and get down as low as you can and then try quitting. You should be fine physically at least.
I recommend this because you aren't in too deep just yet. It might seem appealing to keep taking benzos, but you should at least get them out of your system for a few weeks to prevent a physical dependence and also zero out your tolerance.

 

[Dizz28]

I switch from about 4mg Xanax taken about 6x per day to 4mgs Klonopin taken 6x per day.

Klonopin mg for mg is much stronger than Xanax but just doesn't feel as good for some reason. This chart shows the efficeincy, half life and equivelent to Diazepam which is the basis all Benzos are compared by. As you can see Klonopin is approx 2x as strong as the same dose Xanax.

Hope you like this chart, took me some effort to make

Benzodiazepine: --- Approx. ---approx.Dose Equivalent
----------------------- Half-Life(hours) - to 5 mg Diazepam*

Alprazolam --------- 14 -------------- .5mg
Bromazepam ------ 12 -------------- 5mg
Chlordiazepoxide - 15 -------------- 20mg
Clobazam ---------- 18 -------------- 15mg
Clonazepam -------- 35 -------------- .5mg
Clorazepate ------- 60 --------------- 7.5mg
Diazepam ---------- 32 ---------------- 5mg
Flunitrazepam** -- 25 ---------------- 1mg
Flurazepam --------- 70 ---------------- 20mg
Lorazepam ---------- 12 ---------------- 2mg
Nitrazepam ---------- 28 ---------------- 5mg
Oxazepam ---------- 8 ---------------- 30mg
Temazepam --------- 10 -------------- 20mg
Triazolam ------------- 2 -------------- .25mg

one I didn't mention because it's rarely Prescribed in the States and is used for pre-op anxiety is:

Midazolam 2–5 (IV) 1–3 mg(approx.dose equivalent to 5 mg intravenous Diazepam)


** this is nolonger made in the U.S. due to it's "date rape" BS. it is still made by roche but in other contries and now contains a very bright purple dye mixed with the pill in order to turn a drink a bright purple color indicationg it's use.

Drink clear drinks and you should be fine ladies

 

[Morphinator]

^^ Your chart is wrong, sorry buddy. I just replied to you in another thread where you listed this chart which you just made up yourself.

Clonazepam is absolutely NOT 2x more potent than alprazolam. They are equipotent, meaning 1 mg clonaz = 1 mg alpraz (which both equal 10 mg diazepam). In fact, alprazolam is very very (and I mean very, very) slightly more potent - though the difference is negligable. That is by weight (mg for mg).

As far as power and strength, you are wrong again. Clonazepam is NOT AT ALL "much stronger" than alprazolam. Alprazolam is a more powerful sedative at equal doses, while clonazepam is a slightly stronger anxiolytic at equal doses. They are more or less, equal. Of all the anxiolytic benzos, these two are likely the strongest anxiolytics (though bromazepam can give both a run for their money, despite it being less potent by weight - remember though, potency means nothing, its the strength of the actual drug).

The hypnotics (triazolam, nitrazepam, flunitrazepam, temazepam, midazolam, flurazepam, flutoprazepam, nimetazepam, and brotizolam) are all more powerful than alpraz, clonaz, and all other anxiolytic benzos - be it for sedation, anxiety relief, anticonvulsive action, etc. These are the "Corleone family" within the families of benzos.

 

[Morphinator]

Anyhow,

For anxiety relief - clonazepam is best of the 3

Alprazolam comes after (very close to clonaz though, not behind by far)

and last, diazepam. It really isn't much. Pretty weak.


For recreational purposes, i'd say alprazolam, but clonazepam is good too.

Again, diazepam is not that great.

 

[Dizz28]

^^ Your chart is wrong, sorry buddy. I just replied to you in another thread where you listed this chart which you just made up yourself.

Clonazepam is absolutely NOT 2x more potent than alprazolam. They are equipotent, meaning 1 mg clonaz = 1 mg alpraz (which both equal 10 mg diazepam). In fact, alprazolam is very very (and I mean very, very) slightly more potent - though the difference is negligable. That is by weight (mg for mg).

As far as power and strength, you are wrong again. Clonazepam is NOT AT ALL "much stronger" than alprazolam. Alprazolam is a more powerful sedative at equal doses, while clonazepam is a slightly stronger anxiolytic at equal doses. They are more or less, equal. Of all the anxiolytic benzos, these two are likely the strongest anxiolytics (though bromazepam can give both a run for their money, despite it being less potent by weight - remember though, potency means nothing, its the strength of the actual drug).

The hypnotics (triazolam, nitrazepam, flunitrazepam, temazepam, midazolam, flurazepam, flutoprazepam, nimetazepam, and brotizolam) are all more powerful than alpraz, clonaz, and all other anxiolytic benzos - be it for sedation, anxiety relief, anticonvulsive action, etc. These are the "Corleone family" within the families of benzos.

OK, OK I changed it, I missread the converstion. No need to chastize!

flunitrazepam and temazepam I have tried and had to take 4mgs and 45mg (respectively) to creat any effect. Also flunitrazepam has been reported to have a very low half life, the reason why it doesn't show up on date rape cases, much lower then 24hours. Midazolam I have taken a few times and is also a very powerful antianxiolytic and sedative.

 

[Morphinator]

Sorry i didn't mean to come off sounding like a total dick, but a statement like clonazepam being 2x more potent than alprazolam would have had most ppl replying with a similar post to mine.

Most charts list flunitrazepam's half life at 18-26 hours, which isn't too too long, but still longer than quite a few other hypnotics.

Flutoprazepam I believe is the longest acting hypnotic benzo.

 

[Dizz28]

Sorry i didn't mean to come off sounding like a total dick, but a statement like clonazepam being 2x more potent than alprazolam would have had most ppl replying with a similar post to mine.

Most charts list flunitrazepam's half life at 18-26 hours, which isn't too too long, but still longer than quite a few other hypnotics.

Flutoprazepam I believe is the longest acting hypnotic benzo.

It's alright, I cried about it for a little while but I'm ok now

True, You know your Benzo's!

Did you get my PM?

 

[Morphinator]

Yeah I got your PM.

But wow, you have a pretty low tolerance - i wish I could just take 45 mg of temazepam to get the effect I desire.

I have quite a tolerance, so 150-170 mg of temazepam gets me right where I want to be. With nitrazepam i have to take about 70-80 mg, 4-5 mg with triazolam, and alprazolam about 7 mg.

Diazepam is pretty much crap, I can take about 130-150 mg and the effects aren't as nice as any of the above.

 

[clippper]

Yes you can substitute one benzo with another, but after developing a tolerance you will need more.. temazepam is my benzo of choice!

 

[Morphinator]

It's always best to start off with weak benzos (ie. lorazepam, diazepam, librium, oxazepam etc).

When you build up a tolerance to those, move on to stronger ones (clonazepam, alprazolam, bromazepam, etc).

When you build up a tolerance to those, then you have to go with the strong hypnotics (flunitrazepam, temazepam, nitrazepam, estazolam, triazolam, midazolam, etc).

Word of caution, regardless of what some BL'ers may claim, but the hypnotics are the end line. They are more dangerous and toxic than the other benzos and I have posted numerous scientific literature backing this up.

If withdrawals from most benzos are hellish, w/d from hypnotics are 5 times worse.

Read this on temazepam w/d:

After discontinuation of temazepam, a rebound effect may occur immediately after abruptly stopping. Temazepam tends to have more side effects than other hypnotic drugs and tolerance to the sedative properties and rebound insomnia after discontinuation occurs after only 3-5 days administration.[39] Tolerance to the anticonvulsant and anxiolytic effects also develops rapidly during daily administration.

Abrupt withdrawal after long term use from therapeutic doses of temazepam may result in a very severe benzodiazepine withdrawal syndrome. There are reports in the medical literature of at least six psychotic states developing after abrupt withdrawal from temazepam including delirium after abrupt withdrawal of only 30 mg of temazepam and in another case, auditory hallucinations and visual cognitive disorder developed after abrupt withdrawal from 10 mg of temazepam, 5 mg of nitrazepam and 0.5 mg of triazolam. Gradual and careful reduction of the dosage, preferably with a milder long-acting benzodiazepine such as clonazepam or diazepam, or even a milder short to intermediate acting benzodiazepine such as oxazepam or alprazolam, was recommended to prevent severe withdrawal syndromes from developing. Other strong hypnotic benzodiazepines, whether short, intermediate or long-acting are not recommended. Antipsychotics increase the severity of benzodiazepine withdrawal effects with an increase in the intensity and severity of convulsions. Depersonalisation has also been reported as a benzodiazepine withdrawal effect from temazepam.

Abrupt withdrawal from very high doses is even more likely to cause severe withdrawal effects. Withdrawal from very high doses of temazepam will cause severe hypoperfusion of the whole brain with diffuse slow activity on EEG. After withdrawal, abnormalities in hypofrontal brain wave patterns may persist beyond the withdrawal syndrome suggesting that organic brain damage may occur from chronic high dose abuse of temazepam. Temazepam withdrawal has been well known to cause a sudden and often violent death.

SOURCES:

Hindmarch I (Nov 1977 ). "A repeated dose comparison of three benzodiazepine derivative (nitrazepam, temazepam and flunitrazepam) on subjective appraisals of sleep and measures of psychomotor performance the morning following night-time medication". Acta Psychiatr Scand 56 (5): 373-81.

Viukari M; Linnoila M, Aalto U (Jan 1978 ). "Efficacy and side effects of flurazepam, temazepam, and nitrazepam as sleeping aids in psychogeriatric patients". Acta Psychiatr Scand 57 (1): 27-35.

Nowakowska E; Chodera A, Cenajek-Musiał D, Szczawińska K (May-Jun 1987 ). "Differences in the development of tolerance to various benzodiazepines". Pol J Pharmacol Pharm 39 (3): 245-52.

Terao T, Tani Y (1988 ). "[Six cases of psychotic state following normal-dose benzodiazepine withdrawal]" (in Japanese). J. UOEH 10 (3): 337–40.

Tagashira E, Hiramori T, Urano T, Nakao K, Yanaura S (1981 ). "Enhancement of drug withdrawal convulsion by combinations of phenobarbital and antipsychotic agents". Jpn. J. Pharmacol 31 (5): 689–99.

Terao T, Yoshimura R, Terao M, Abe K (1992 ). "Depersonalization following nitrazepam and temazepam withdrawal". Biol. Psychiatry 31 (2): 212–3.

Kitabayashi Y, Ueda H, Narumoto J, et al (2001). "Chronic high-dose temazepam dependence 123I-IMP SPECT and EEG studies". Addict Biol 6 (3): 257–261

Morgan K; Dixon S, Mathers N, Thompson J, Tomeny M (Feb 2004 ). "Psychological treatment for insomnia in the regulation of long-term hypnotic drug use" (PDF). Health Technol Assess 8 (8 ): 1-68. National Institute for Health Research.

 

[Morphinator]

More:

Neuropsychological function can be permanently affected by abuse of certain hypnotic benzodiazepines (temazepam, nitrazepam, flunitrazepam, and nimetazepam were found to be particularly toxic), with brain damage similar to alcoholic brain damage, as was shown in a 4– to 6-year follow-up study of hypnotic abusers by Borg and others of the Karolinska Institute. The CT scan abnormalities showed dilatation of the ventricular system. However, unlike alcoholics, hypnotic abusers showed no evidence of widened cortical sulci. The study concluded that, when cerebral disorder is diagnosed in hypnotic benzodiazepine abusers, it is often permanent. An earlier study by Borg et al. found evidence of cerebral disorder in those that exclusively abused hypnotic benzodiazepines, suggesting that cerebral disorder was not the result of other substances of abuse. Anxiolytic benzodiazepines, such as diazepam, clonazepam, alprazolam, bromazepam and lorazepam were not found to have the same toxic properties of most of the hypnotics.

Sources:

Borg S; Bergman H, Engelbrektson K, Vikander B. (1989 ). "Dependence on benzodiazepine hypnotics: neuropsychological impairment, field dependence and clinical course in a 5-year follow-up study.". British journal of addiction. 84 (5): 547-53.

Borg S; Bergman H, Holm L. (Feb 1980). "Neuropsychological impairment and exclusive abuse of benzodiazepine hypnotics.". The American journal of psychiatry. 137 (2): 215-7.

 

[clippper]

That's some good info Morphinator... thanks!

 

[brainiacthemaniac]

IMO Klonopin is a far better anxiolytic than Valium or Xanax. The latter two having much more potential for abuse. For pure medical relief of anxiety I found clonazepam to be far more effective over a long period than the other two. Xanax had too much of a dissociative effect for me leaving me with times of little to no memory, and Valium is just too sedating to be effective. Granted each of them is good in its respective use, but for general anxiety, I found Klonopin 1mg bid to be most effective for my anxiety.