Bupe Alcohol and Suboxone - Alcoholic Solutions for Higher BA With Sublingual Use

sixpartseven

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First, thinks to Hoptis for salvaging this from Brokelight for me so I didn't have to re-type it.

Ok, so the title may suggest that I am going to talk about drinking while on Suboxone. Wrong. That has been discussed ad nauseum on the real BL. What I am going to talk about is diluting Suboxone in alcohol for sublingual use.

I made a thread a long time ago talking about an alcoholic solution of buprenorphine having a higher bioavailability. Some studies say that the BA for an alcoholic solution is close to 70% higher than tablets alone.

(One study suggesting a higher BA for alcoholic solution. No figures given.)
(Another study saying the same thing, but figures are given.)

Here's the relevant info from the second link:

Buprenorphine has poor gastrointestinal (GI) bioavailability, and fair sublingual bioavailability. FDA-approved formulations of the drug for treatment of opioid addiction are in the form of sublingual tablets that are held under the tongue and absorbed through the sublingual mucosa. Studies of sublingually administered Buprenorphine have employed either an alcohol-based solution or a tablet formulation of the drug. Confusion may result when reviewing the literature on the effectiveness of Buprenorphine at various doses because most early trials and clinical studies of Buprenorphine were performed with a sublingually administered liquid preparation, whereas the oral formulations marketed in the United States are sublingual tablets. Studies have shown that the bioavailability of Buprenorphine in sublingual tablet form is significantly less than via sublingual liquid solution – about 50 --70 percent that of the liquid form, so the dosages of Buprenorphine sublingual tablets must be significantly higher than those used in the liquid form to achieve the same therapeutic effect.
The following is a condensed and revised version of the process I used that anyone can carry out, as long as you have access to alcohol. For further, more detailed descriptions of my experiments with the initial - and quite confusing - process, keep reading on past the following instructions.

IF YOU PLAN ON DOING THIS, USE THESE AS INSTRUCTIONS RATHER THAN THE ONES I USED IN THE SUMMARY FOLLOWING THEM

Instructions For Making Alcoholic Solution of Buprenorphine said:
You will need:
- .5ml or 1ml syringe
- highest proof alcohol you have immediate access to
- a bottle cap or spoon
- Q-tips

Step 1: Crush desired amount of Suboxone in a bottle cap or spoon.
Step 2: For every 1mg of Suboxone, draw up .25ml of alcohol. If you're using 3mg of Suboxone, that would mean you'd need .75ml.
Step 3: Add alcohol to the Suboxone in the cap or spoon. Stir till it is dissolved well. Let it sit for 5 minutes.
Step 4: Bunch the cotton up into a few pea-sized pieces.
Step 5: Place cotton into the cap or spoon until it is all soaked up by the cottons. Try to use as few pieces as possible.
Step 6: Place the cotton under your tongue, leaving them in until they are completely white again, which is usually at about the same time you are no longer able to taste the alcohol, while trying not to swallow any of the alcohol. Eventually you can, but for the first 5 - 10 minutes, try to hold as much in as possible.
My Experiments:


DISCLAIMER: Again, I do NOT suggest using the following as instructions for carrying out this process. They are the initial methods I used when first figuring out how to do this, so they are some-what confusing and convoluted. Use the above process instead. It's short, simpler, and a lot less confusing. The following is merely a summary of my experiments for anyone interested in how I figured this out.

I came across the articles on alcoholic solutions of Buprenorphine a long time ago, but only recently have I considered trying it. A few days ago, I was out of Suboxone, and had no chance of getting any for some time, so I was going to withdrawal. I remembered that I had a few cottons left from a long time ago, when I used to shoot Suboxone, and this information came to mind. I know it sounds disgusting. You're probably thinking "Why did you save cottons from almost a year ago?" The answer is, I didn't save them, they had been left in the box I keep all my IV gear in. Also, since I wasn't IVing and it would be soaked in alcohol, I wasn't worried about bacteria growth.

It did two experiments before coming up with a method for creating the alcoholic solution.

Experiment #1

Here's what I did: I took the two cottons which were both used to filter 4mg of Suboxone each. I had no idea how much was left in them, but since they had dried out, a large amount of powder was stuck to the cotton, indicating a large amount of the pill was left-over. I drew up .5ml of alcohol (coconut flavored Malibu rum - it's all I had) into a syringe, placed the cottons in a bottle cap - you could use a spoon - and added the rum. I let the cottons soak in the rum for about 15 minutes, stirring every few minutes.

After 15 minutes of soaking, I initially drew up half of the rum (.25ml) through the cottons, squirt the rum back into the needle cap (the cap that goes over the plunger), and tossed it under my tongue.

Results: It was difficult to keep the rum under my tongue. I did the best I could in holding it in, but I know that I swallowed much of it. I don't know if it worked because I didn't wait long enough to find out.

I tried to figure out a better way for this to work. As I was thinking, I was staring at the bottle cap with the two cottons in it and an idea came to me. I noticed that there was no residual liquid in the cap. It had all been absorbed into the two cottons. So, I drew up the rest of the rum through the cottons, took 2 new cotton balls, and injected .125ml into each ball by sticking the tip of the needle in the cotton and slowly pushing down the plunger until the cotton turned from white to orange and was on the verge of spilling out the rum, but not adding to much so that it held it all in. The bigger the ball of cotton, obviously, the more solution it can hold, but keep in mind that you have to fit these under your tongue, so don't make them too big. For .25ml's, the cotton ball should be about the size of a pea, so for .125ml, use two cotton balls that are about half the size of a pea. You can probably fit more than .25ml in a pea sized piece of cotton, though. Just be sure that when you add the alcohol to the cotton, none is leaking out. Make sure the cotton is holding it all. I then took the two cotton balls and placed those under my tongue, holding them down against the floor of my mouth with my tongue. That worked 2 ways: 1) it forced the rum out of the cotton, and 2) it held the cotton in place and made a seal with my gums/teeth so that barely any rum leaked out and got swallowed.

I held the cottons in for close to 20 minutes. When I finally removed them, they were completely white.

Around that same time, or maybe even at the 30 minute mark, the effects began to take hold. I noticed a significant amount of withdrawal relief, even more than when I normally snort my 1 - 2mg of Suboxone, and more so than sublingual use of the tablet alone. Sometimes I do take it sublingually, so I can safely compare these results to both methods of administration. Unfortunately, there was no way to know how much Suboxone I actually took. The effects lasted for 24 hours, far longer than the effects from intranasal use. I tried it again the next day.

Experiment #2

Here's what I did: I repeated the same experiment, except this time I used a known amount of Suboxone: 1mg.

At normal BA, 1mg = about .3mg. At the alcoholic-solution BA, 1mg = about .7mg.

The only difference between this process and the first is that instead of soaking used cottons in Suboxone, I crushed up my dose, placed it in a spoon, and added .5ml of rum. After letting it soak, I drew up .25ml through a clean cotton, leaving .25mg in that cotton, and injected the other .25ml into another new cotton, leaving me with 2 cottons soaked in Suboxone. I placed them both under my tongue until they had turned white again.

Results: Huge difference. The effects came on slower, but were much more pronounced in comparison to intranasal and sublingual use. I could even go so far as to say it was mildly-euphoric. My eyes had the familiar dryness and my pupils were constricted. I also felt very faint sedation.

I repeated the process with 2mg and the effects were even more pronounced. I have yet to try it with a dose higher than 2mg.

Conclusion

I feel this is a much more effective way to take Suboxone compared to sublingual use of tablets alone and intranasal use of tablets. I assume that the higher the proof of the alcohol, the higher the BA will be. With the rum I used, I do not think the BA was 70% higher. The studies linked above say the BA varies from 50 - 70% higher. Those studies had to have been done with a more pure form of alcohol, so I would guess that with the rum I used, it may not have been even a 50% increase, although it is possible it was. Still, there was a noticeable increase in effects making it a reliable method for those of us on maintenance who want to get more out of their Suboxone by using less of their supply. The effects also lasted much longer. I didn't require another dose till close to 24 hours later, when normally I need another dose about every 12.

If this is interesting to you, give it a shot and let me know how it works.

If the process for preparing the solution isn't very clear, let me know and I will re-explain it in detail step-by-step for you. Actually, I will probably re-write the process anyways and post it when I'm done. I don't have a digital camera, but I will use my cell phone to take pictures of the process, too, if that will help at all. I probably won't have those read to be posted until Bluelight comes back online, but I will try to get them up as soon as possible.
 
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bingey

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I often have a sip of wine or strong beer with my suboxone to help it dissolve , i think one of the reasons it works better is the alcohol thins the layer of mucous and crap that covers your tongue and pallet.


ive read a study once praising the virtues of brushing your teeth and especially gums and tongue before taking one's suboxone and it does make a big difference , lysterine wouldn't hurt too i can imagine.
 

ellua

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sounds like a good way to stretch a small supply, and easy enough for those of us without any chem knowledge to actually try. i've got enough to last me for quite a while (thankfully) but i've been in a tight spot with my supply before and it will probably happen again.

maybe it'd be a good idea to practice while you've got enough left to play around with, just in case you screw up somehow, that'd really suck...
 

sixpartseven

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^ It's actually almost impossible to screw this up. There's nothing you can do - except adding way too much alcohol - that will leave the Suboxone unusable. It's very user-friendly. Even if you did add way too much alcohol, it would still be usable, you would just have to dose multiple times for the same results.

Try it out and report back sometime.
 
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sixpartseven

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Update

You will need:
- .5ml or 1ml syringe
- highest proof alcohol you have immediate access to
- a bottle cap or spoon
- Q-tips

Step 1: Crush desired amount of Suboxone in a bottle cap or spoon.
Step 2: For every 1mg of Suboxone, draw up .25ml of alcohol. If you're using 3mg of Suboxone, that would mean you'd need .75ml.
Step 3: Add alcohol to the Suboxone in the cap or spoon. Stir till it is dissolved well. Let it sit for 5 minutes.
Step 4: Bunch the cotton up into a few pea-sized pieces.
Step 5: Place cotton into the cap or spoon until it is all soaked up by the cottons. Try to use as few pieces as possible.
Step 6: Place the cotton under your tongue, leaving them in until they are completely white again, which is usually at about the same time you are no longer able to taste the alcohol, while trying not to swallow any of the alcohol. Eventually you can, but for the first 5 - 10 minutes, try to hold as much in as possible.
I just repeated the process again with 2mg of Suboxone. The effects aren't as great as they were before, but I blame the massive amount of Morphine I was IVing a few days ago. It's still working, I'm just not getting the relief I am used to.

Side Note: I've also noticed another added benefit of this. The cottons are white again after like 5 or 10 minutes compared to the 20 - 30 with straight up tablets. Much easier to manage.
 
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monstanoodle

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That's extremely interesting even though I don't take Bupe :)
 

Captain.Heroin

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but I blame the massive amount of Morphine I was IVing a few days ago.
Lucky... :p
.
:|

.

...

.

;)=D


It's still working, I'm just not getting the relief I am used to.
Should have waited a few more hours to get into withdrawal fully.

Also, I haven't gotten to do a mu agonist for so long (if you don't count 75mg of hydrocodone in 2 sessions...I don't) that 2mg suboxone IV'd (with 12.5 to 25mg diphenhydramine hcl) gets me going 8(8o8(8(8o8(8(8o8( and noddin out.

8(8o8(

funny thing is I'm fine with what I'm doing, no desire to get clean to do any more agonists at all. Even if heroin was right in front of my face.
 
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Subreflex

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Correct me if i'm wrong but I thought bupe was destroyed by stomach acid.

Interesting post. I'm dying to give it a try.
 

brutus

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I read a thread pretty damn close to this one in ADD a few months back. Needless to say, I tried taking my dose of bupe with about an ounce of orange flavored mouthwash and i could actually feel the difference. The mouthwash had somewhere around 30% of ethanol, give or take.
 

taitpeter

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I just repeated the process again with 2mg of Suboxone. The effects aren't as great as they were before, but I blame the massive amount of Morphine I was IVing a few days ago. It's still working, I'm just not getting the relief I am used to.
what kind of morphine?
 

johanneschimpo

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Simplified method for dummies: put a few drops of high-proof alcohol under your tongue along with your suboxone. (if you're too lazy/busy to premix them.)
 

sixpartseven

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^ Exactly.

The method for doing it as I described would be for if you want to do a large amount of Suboxone and store most of it. The benefit of this would be that it would be easier to measure out smaller doses (below 1mg). If you use a known amount of alcohol, say 1ml per 8mg of Suboxone, it would be so much easier to divide the 8mg pill up into doses smaller than 2mg.
 

sixpartseven

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Ok, apparently there has been some confusion lately.

This method is NOT for IV use. It is strictly for sublingual use. No one should be injecting alcohol under any circumstances.
 

Captain.Heroin

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I'll bring a bottle of gin home this Christmas, if my parent's ask me why, I'll let them know it's to gain bioavailability...that's why I only needed to bring a small flask of it. %)

holy god it burns
"Sublingual" does not equate "IV".

And if you really slammed liquor I'm going to LOL
 

xxkcxx

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My sublingual dose is 8mg, but I hardly ever take it. So, I blew 4 mg, but I think I am going to try another 2 with this method.

I'll let you know how it goes. Thanks!


eta: damn...that burns like a mofo at first, but after the first 30 seconds or so you can't even feel or taste it. Which is good cause I hate alcohol.
 
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Captain.Heroin

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I tried it, it's pretty awesome. I got a lot more than I would have out of sublingually dosing suboxone (with the alcohol).
 
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