adrenal fatigue awareness for ecstasy users

Brenner

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Although an old topic, I wanted to chime in with my experience on this as I find the content (besides the arguments which were utterly useless) very relevant / interesteing.

A little background:

Heathy male in mid 20's.
Took lab tested MDMA pills (The red round Bugatti's, not oval shaped ones) once every 3 months (2 occasions at 6 week intervals at one point) for about 2 years. I used to crush them up and weigh out half each (they were reportedly 200mg pills) so the assumption was 100mg doses. Used all the supplements and guidelines on rollsafe. I also trained 5-6 days a week lifting weights at the gym.

Mid 2015:
Took 3 x 100mg doses over the course of a day at a festival. 2 weeks later injured what appeared to be an adductor muscle (felt like I'd torn something) at the gym and within 2 weeks of that developed agonising constant pain where the bicep tendon runs into the shoulder (both shoulders). Also had an emotional breakdown shortly after that which included lasting depression. At this point I stopped using MDMA or training at the gym, and I don't use any other drugs, or drink alcohol. I'd call this a traumatic event and it's where my life crashed basically.

Fast forward to Jan 2019, the depression lifted after about 12-18 months of the initial trauma. I was still left with the pain in my groin area from the suspected adductor injury and the unexplained pain in my shoulders. A lot of clicking from my hips when moving around, and genrally felt like I had constant tension throughout my muscular system. Doctors were just presribing pain killers. I'd been to see multiple phsysio therapists since having the initial problems but none of them really seemed to help much despite manual soft tissue work, looking at bicep tendonitis etc.
I also suffered from seriously bad constant chronic fatigue. I'd wake up in the morning and sometimes feel "ok" for about half an hour but then waves of fatigue (physical and mental) for the rest of the day with me having to lie down for a couple of hours at least, sometimes drifting into what felt like half-unconciousness - but never sleep. I also couldnt think straight or carry out professional work due to brain fog or not being able to think straight. I was always hungry, cravings for sugar and sometimes couldnt sleep in the evenings despite being exhaused. Cortisol showed as elevated in the evening on a saliva test but was normal besides that (i.e not low). Had a shed load of other blood / hormone tests done which all came back as normal. Tried every supplement known to man which didn't show any improvement in my fatigue symptoms.

Started seeing a Chiropractor back in January this year on a weekly basis. As the sessions progressed he got to know my body better and I asked him for some feedback on my overall condition, he basically said he's never seen anything like it in terms of the widespread trigger point severity. Basically from head to toe, any trigger point he went near was a 10/10 (trust me I was in agony nearly passing out a few times or being sick) and this is based on him hardly applying any pressure at all in some instances. My body was a train wreck basically. He's seen a 10/10 at one or two points on people, or a 4 or 5/10 on say 6 or 7 points, but never 10/10 everywhere. After each session I'd be wiped out for days in terms of fatigue, but 6 months of work later things did start to improve. What I also found was although I was focused on the pain in my shoulders and leg (adductor), I had a lot of other muscular problems going on elsewhere causing pain. It was only when someone (i.e my Chiropractor) went near them to test for tenderness that we found a problem. Also as we turned down the volume (reduced the pain and inflammation) from my shoulders and groin injury, I started to feel the pain from the other areas I wasn't aware of previously.

What's actually worked well for me over the last 2 months is LLLT (Low Level Laser Therapy) - the laser being the important bit (tried the LED stuff which didnt do anything). This has massively helped with all the muscular issues (trigger points?) I have all over my body. Still working through them at the moment but I've had an improvement in energy levels so far with the odd occasion feeling normal or even excellent (I'd almost forgotten what normal energy levels felt like since before taking MDMA). One thing I will point out, muscles that tighten with stress (psoas, pec minor, scalene & traps are just some examples) have been found on me to be chronically tight to the point where I had tendonitis in the insertion points. I've been off the gym for about 3 months now (was training on and off since about 18 months after the incident) but I'm planning to go back shortly with low intensity to be on the safe side, but certainly feel like I can handle it now.

In conclsion, looking back and based on the fact that LLLT has shown massive improvements for me, I'd say I've had chronic widespread (systemic?) inflammation in my body from stress. This has caused a vicious cycle in that it was also disrupting my sleep (was getting 8-10 hours but kept waking up needing the toilet multiple times etc.). MDMA (800% cortisol spike remember) + training at the gym was burning the candle at both ends, the traumatic experience I had was just the culmination of all this. Seems to be well known that stress causes inflammation, and as I've been working to reduce that recently, my energy and ability to function is returning.

So in short, I lost 4 years of my life to MDMA. I had plans to move on from contracting at the time and start a technology business, which all went out the window due to the fact I've not been able to function properly. My social life has pretty much been non-existent due to never having the energy to be around people. I'm certainly going nowhere near MDMA or any other drugs - learned my lesson the hard way. I think the inflammation, either as a direct result of MDMA itself or from the stress it causes on the body, is a bigger factor than the information that's out there on the risks of MDMA would lead you to think, though I accept this can vary from person to person based on the fact we are all unique both mentally and physically.

Hope this helps shed some light. Feel free to ask any questions. Mods I am happy for you to move this post if you think it would be more useful to people elsewhere.
 
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indigoaura

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Jan 4, 2009
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Wow, @somedud and @themachine. You are both really showing your lack of knowledge on this subject.

If you go to the FDA website, the Federal Drug Administration of America, you will read in their own words, on their own website that they only fund studies likely to result in profit. That is why it has been so hard over the years to get MDMA through the FDA protocol for PTSD. No one will profit from it due to the patent being expired. So MAPS had to crowdfund the entirely of the cost of the FDA studies.

This is not a conspiracy theory. It is just fact. Drug companies seek FDA approval for drugs likely to be profitable. Drug companies exist to make profit. The entire system is set up around the idea of profit for the drug companies. The purpose of most traditional American doctors is to treat symptoms. They are not seeking root cause. Again, this is not a conspiracy theory, this is just fact. When you go to the doctor, the doctor is going to prescribe you as many medications as possible, because the doctors get paid by the drug companies as well.

These are just facts about the way that the system is set up. If you did not know this, feel free to research it. You will find that this information is true.

@its.euphoric Your post is interesting and informative, and I am fascinated by this line of thought. Thank you for posting.

I have been using MDMA since 2000, and on recent blood tests, my cortisol levels were so high that they were out of the range of the test. My doctor indicated that this was pre-adrenal fatigue. I have been experiencing nausea following workout and following MDMA or LSD use. I assume, this could be related to the super high cortisol. What do you make of it?
 

indigoaura

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Wow, just realized how old this thread is. I was responding without having tuned in to that. :)
 

AutoTripper

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Wow, just realized how old this thread is. I was responding without having tuned in to that. :)
Haha, i was tempted to alert you to this, as those members have not been seen in years. But maybe we can excuse their being mistaken and misinformed as it was a while back now and I'm sure our global collective understanding of MDMA has improved substantially since then.
 

Phobos

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Wow, just realized how old this thread is. I was responding without having tuned in to that. :)
Well you bumped a interesting thread, I wasn't aware of this so thank you.
 

Phobos

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Might wanna check who bumped :)
Wooopsy.... Rite. Thanks to you then mate.

One thing that I would like to mention, although it might deserve its own thread, is that IIRC chronically elevated Cortisol suppresses Testosterone production.
Low testosterone surely affects mood and leads to depression, and also reduces the ability of your body to repair and recover many tissues which could explain your physical injuries and the general inflammation.
Testosterone also blocks the action of Cortisol, so lowering test will increase the influence of cortisol on the body.
Other than Increasing Cortisol, MDMA use increases serotonin levels which in turn boost Prolactin release.
Now this concerns more people that use MDMA every week or even more frequently, but for many of those users a contributing factor to lower testosterone levels will be the sleep deprivation that is associated with frequent MDMA use.
 

Brenner

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Mar 11, 2015
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Wooopsy.... Rite. Thanks to you then mate.

One thing that I would like to mention, although it might deserve its own thread, is that IIRC chronically elevated Cortisol suppresses Testosterone production.
Low testosterone surely affects mood and leads to depression, and also reduces the ability of your body to repair and recover many tissues which could explain your physical injuries and the general inflammation.
Testosterone also blocks the action of Cortisol, so lowering test will increase the influence of cortisol on the body.
Other than Increasing Cortisol, MDMA use increases serotonin levels which in turn boost Prolactin release.
Now this concerns more people that use MDMA every week or even more frequently, but for many of those users a contributing factor to lower testosterone levels will be the sleep deprivation that is associated with frequent MDMA use.
Interesting note, so with Testosterone, I had mine checked along with prolactin and various other hormones, once in 2017 and once about 6 months ago (before I started feeling any better from the fatigue). Both times Testost came back as normal (usually middle of the range or slightly higher) and prolactin came back at the upper end of the normal range in 2017, and about 6 months ago came back at the lower end of the normal range. I didn't have it tested when my life crashed back in 2015 when I was using MDMA, the pain was the focus back then. I think the fatigue came on at the same time.

As interesting as it might have been to see what my hormones were doing at the time, I dont think it's worth diving into too much since the overall picture is the same from my experience: MDMA is a really bad idea - as with any drugs, legal or illegal. Side note: watching a documentary the other night and there were some stats quoted which were something along the lines of 120 deaths a year in America are attributed to caffeine, which is legal and thought to be really safe. I'll let people do their own homework on that and not draw any conclusions from my forum post that has no quoted sources. I don't drink coffee or anything with caffeine in it for the record. I tried it in an attempt to gain some energy with the fatigue but it made me worse 40 or so minutes later.

There is light at the end of the tunnel for me it seems, based on the fact I'm feeling the best now I've felt since it happened. Though it remains to be seen if I fully recover, I'll bet the stress has taken a few years off my life, not including the 4 years I've lost already.

Just really want to raise awareness in case anyone out there reading this, is going through the same hell I went through for the best part of 5 years and cost me around 200k in lost business and health bills.
 

Phobos

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Regarding Testosterone, the variation inside the normal range is HUGE, and being right in the middle or 3/4 up is a lot of difference for recovery.
Don't know if it was the cause of your injury and we ofcourse do not even know your levels back then, just food for thought.
 

epic11

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Funny that this thread got dug up, cause it makes some points. My intuition lately has been telling me that my adrenals are fatigued, as i do pretty much everythin in my life healthy, but still having some issues. I was gonna try some adrenal supplements and report back for both this thread and the 'what is wrong" thread. Are we not rolling very well due to adrenals? Lemme try to figure that out. :p
 

PharmSauce

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Jul 17, 2018
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The origination of this thread definitely has some merit to it. It is a very interesting topic, and it is cool to see that more people in the basic medical community are becoming knowledgeable about HPA dysfunction and adrenal insufficiency. Unfortunately, "adrenal fatigue" is/was somewhat of a trigger word for healthcare providers. Trigger word meaning it causes them to get in the mindset of "Crazy person thinking they have a fake disease."
 
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