Opioids Acute Withdrawal from Tilidin

d1ahp · May 24, 2015

cyndiann said:
Ok, first of all kratom isn't an opiate so it's not like "any other opiate". And I am in contact with hundreds of people who are taking it and not a single one has experienced major withdrawal symptoms. Instead they are using it to withdraw off not only heroin and pain pills but methadone and suboxone. I see testimonials from people who use it to get clean about every day. If you want to change my mind on this show me, don't tell me to Google it. Even on Google the only negative info on withdrawal comes from commercial companies that make money off of drug dependence and are full of misinformation.

Kratom is not an opiate, but it is an opioid substance. Just like oxy, hydro or any opiate it binds to the mu receptors. What happens when those receptors are constantly stimulated? Tolerance. What happens upon cessation of that substance? Withdrawal. Kratom, in the brain, acts just like any other mu receptor binding chemical.

cyndiann said:
Also addiction doesn't come from prolonged use of any drug or from huge doses. Actual numbers show addiction in about 4% of the population but it's exaggerated quite a bit on a regular basis. If you have a propensity towards addiction it can happen from a single or a low dose and if you don't have it taking a lot won't make it happen.

I don't know where you're getting those numbers, but I know a ton of drug addicts. You know how I know they're addicts? They will steal and rob to sustain their habits. What happens when they abruptly stop taking their DOC? They have withdrawals. You know how they became addicts? By finding the substance they enjoy and using it for prolonged periods of time while increasing the dosage. If that's not addiction, I don't know what is.

cyndiann · May 24, 2015

《Plasticity》;13056353 said:
You don't sound very smart, nor are you willing to read unbiased sources with a simple google search so I won't even waste my time.

And you are a moderator here? I've not seen any unbiased sources posted and it's up to you to post them, not to ask someone to Google search them. I actually did Google it and found nothing. Moderators should be impartial and not make personal attacks on people who participate here.

cyndiann · May 24, 2015

《Plasticity》;13056353 said:
Have fun with the withdrawal that's heading your way as you're gonna be in for a real surprise . You should really stay off those kratom forums if you want truthful info though... I absolutely love kratom and all that it's done for me and even to me seeing the outright denial of any negatives caused by the plant is pretty disgusting, one big circle jerk of denial going on in those boards. As if kratom is some sort of non-addictive mu agonist. Shame really, I'd love to be able to chat with other kratom users on a board dedicated solely to the plant.

That lets me know you don't know much because most people don't have any withdrawals at all including me. There is no denial. I know what it can and can't do. With your attitude you wouldn't last long anywhere else.

cyndiann · May 24, 2015

Another point. Florida just tried making kratom illegal and if withdrawals were so bad and so frequent there would be emergency room records of it and they would have been used against us during the last legislative session. It didn't happen because there were no such records. It was brought up at the hearings. We (kratom users) sent a lobbyist to talk to the people behind the bill and it was buried in studies never to be seen again. There was nothing factual they could present in session to make kratom look bad except for one man who killed himself, supposedly because he did kratom but there were so many other circumstances surrounding his death including the use of antidepressants that have been known to cause suicide that kratom could not be blamed.

crunkazcanbe · May 24, 2015

cyndiann said:
That lets me know you don't know much because most people don't have any withdrawals at all including me. There is no denial. I know what it can and can't do. With your attitude you wouldn't last long anywhere else.

My god dude your Fucked in your brain then . How do you explain my withdrawals from kratom or my dads or my aunts our my Grandmas or my wifes??? Maybe you have not tried any other opiate in your life ,and don't know? Maybe you take such a small dose daily that know one would withdrawal ? Maybe you have never even actually quit to notice a withdrawal side effect ? Or maybe your just full of shit thinking with you not acknowledging the fact kratom want get banned ? Maybe your just a addict to it and afraid of it getting banned ? Guess what though its people like you as to why it will be a schedule 1 soon . So enjoy actually Withdrawing from it for once . Hope the mod does something with you for providing false info .

crunkazcanbe · May 24, 2015

cyndiann said:
Another point. Florida just tried making kratom illegal and if withdrawals were so bad and so frequent there would be emergency room records of it and they would have been used against us during the last legislative session. It didn't happen because there were no such records. It was brought up at the hearings. We (kratom users) sent a lobbyist to talk to the people behind the bill and it was buried in studies never to be seen again. There was nothing factual they could present in session to make kratom look bad except for one man who killed himself, supposedly because he did kratom but there were so many other circumstances surrounding his death including the use of antidepressants that have been known to cause suicide that kratom could not be blamed.

Well its a good thing that most people that are familiar with opiate withdrawals don't run to the ER . Or it would be banned quicker . Its not the states that will ban it . It will be a schedule 1 for the whole US soon with folks like you .

Zerwas · May 24, 2015

I don't know why this is even discussed. Of course Kratom causes withdrawls if consumed regularly over a longer period of time.
I had to learn that myself and it was not pleasant at ~10-15g/day. Not even comparable to caffeine in its intensity.

Why would someone claim that it doesn't when there are a lot of reports and sources proving the addictive nature of Kratom?

《Plasticity》 · May 24, 2015

cyndiann said:
That lets me know you don't know much because most people don't have any withdrawals at all including me. There is no denial. I know what it can and can't do. With your attitude you wouldn't last long anywhere else.

Man, I can't tell if you're trolling or you're really so dim that you don't know how to operate a simple google search. Lemme help you out...

Read these

NSFW:

Do you really need more? Just click the bottom two links for all the anecdote one could ask for. Pretty much any google search containing the words "kratom", "withdrawal", or "addiction" will bring up hundreds upon hundreds of results. These were all found in less than a minute so I find it hard to believe that someone can be so incompetent that they would be unable to find any reports of kratom withdrawal... It sounds like you're probably just in extreme denial about your addiction and it's really quite gross. If not dependent yet then you sure will be very soon with that mindset.

If it's the former please don't bring harm onto others with false information because of personal insecurities, false information of this nature has no place on a harm reduction forum. I do want to apologize to the OP for any derailing I've caused. Honestly the turn this thread took is rediculous and this was 100% my fault $:\$ (though I have a feeling someone else would have chimed in had I not). I just don't want people to dive in head first with the idea that kratom doesn't cause dependance. I will no longer post in this thread as I've already done what I can to rectify the false info spewed by Cyndiann. Hope everyone is having a safe weekend btw.

crunkazcanbe · May 24, 2015

《Plasticity》;13056895 said:
Man, I can't tell if you're trolling or you're really so dim that you don't know how to operate a simple google search. Lemme help you out...

Read these

NSFW:

Here's a study...
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24698080

And a documented case report...
http://www.researchgate.net/publica..._after_kratom_(Mitragyna_speciosa)_dependence

And another study...
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0149763412002023
Google search for "kratom addiction"
https://www.google.com/search?ie=UT...&q=kratom+withdrawal+study#q=kratom+addiction

Google search for "kratom physical dependence"
https://www.google.com/search?ie=UT...ratom+dependance#q=kratom+physical+dependence

Do you really need more? Just click the bottom two links for all the anecdote one could ask for. Pretty much any google search containing the words "kratom", "withdrawal", or "addiction" will bring up hundreds upon hundreds of results. These were all found in less than a minute so I find it hard to believe that someone can be so incompetent that they would be unable to find any reports of kratom withdrawal... It sounds like that you're probably just in extreme denial about your addiction and it's really quite gross. If not then you sure will be very soon with that mindset.

If it's the former please don't bring harm onto others with false information because of personal insecurities, false information of this nature has no place on a harm reduction forum. I do want to apologize to the OP for any derailing I've caused. Honestly the turn this thread took is rediculous and this was 100% my fault $:\$ (though I have a feeling someone else would have chimed in had I not). I just don't want people to dive in head first with the idea that kratom doesn't cause dependance. I will no longer post in this thread as I've already done what I can to rectify the false info spewed by Cyndiann. Hope everyone is having a safe weekend btw.

Honestly I think he is trolling !

d1ahp · May 24, 2015

crunkazcanbe said:
Honestly I think he is trolling !

Hopefully, he's trolling. If not, he's extremely stupid.

cyndiann · May 24, 2015

I am not a man, I am not stupid. I am not a troll. Obviously serious discussion can't happen here. You are all too busy trashing people. Learn the difference between dependence and addiction. Learn what women are and how we should be treated. I depend on it to stop my pain but I have no withdrawals if I stop and most people don't. None of the links says kratom always causes withdrawals. Some are anecdotal about a single person's problems with it. I am the one being trolled here, and sadly it includes admins. That tells me a lot about this forum. And now I'm being chased in private messages as well.

Keep up with the news. Kratom was removed as a drug of concern by the feds. Did any of you help with the costs of bringing kratom friendly lobbyists that kept it legal in Florida and Louisiana? Have you signed the petitions to change the laws in the states that have made it illegal?

Find out what trolling is. trollingBeing a prick on the internet because you can. Typically unleashing one or more cynical or sarcastic remarks on an innocent by-stander, because it's the internet and, hey, you can.

Which means the trolls are d1ahp and crunkazcanbe and everyone who made the rude comments. Can't address the actual posts? Yeah, resort to name calling like children do.

crunkazcanbe · May 24, 2015

cyndiann said:
I am not a man, I am not stupid. I am not a troll. Obviously serious discussion can't happen here. You are all too busy trashing people. Learn the difference between dependence and addiction. Learn what women are and how we should be treated. I depend on it to stop my pain but I have no withdrawals if I stop and most people don't. None of the links says kratom always causes withdrawals. Some are anecdotal about a single person's problems with it. I am the one being trolled here, and sadly it includes admins. That tells me a lot about this forum. And now I'm being chased in private messages as well.

Keep up with the news. Kratom was removed as a drug of concern by the feds. Did any of you help with the costs of bringing kratom friendly lobbyists that kept it legal in Florida and Louisiana? Have you signed the petitions to change the laws in the states that have made it illegal?

Find out what trolling is. trollingBeing a prick on the internet because you can. Typically unleashing one or more cynical or sarcastic remarks on an innocent by-stander, because it's the internet and, hey, you can.

Which means the trolls are d1ahp and crunkazcanbe and everyone who made the rude comments. Can't address the actual posts? Yeah, resort to name calling like children do.

Dependence also know as a physical dependence is where the withdraws come from . Addiction is a mental thing that I also admittedly have . Sorry if you think I am a troll I just know after well over 6 months of 30 grams a day of Kratom plain leaf green Malay ,and the occasionally UEI in here and there I had some pretty bad withdrawals comparable to a old 60mg a day Oxycodone habit I had . Now that I am on 540mg Oxycodone a day Kratom does nothing for me . I started on Pain meds for chronic pain issues ( Prescribed by a doc) that eventually led to a big addiction . Now that a doc prescribes me 90 8mg Hydromorphones ,and 240 30mg Oxycodone IR's with the occasionally RC opiate I buy sometime (PFBF) I don't touch kratom anymore . I have done many different prescribed narcotics starting with Hydrocodone-Morphine-Oxycodone-Hydromorphone-Oxymorphone-methadone and Heroin ,but obviously Heroin was not prescribed .

I guess what I am trying to say is YES I am a addict ,and will admit it ,and Honestly my DOCTOR knows this ,but as long as I come in with $450 in my hand every month I get what I need . I was just hoping you would trust a addict ;because they know there drugs ,and with opiates being my drug of choice ,and knowing what a withdrawal is I just expected you to trust me . If kratom has Opioids in it like Science has proven then If you take a high enough dose for long enough you will have some issues coming off of it similar to opiates . Worse then caffeine . From what I experienced with kratom with 30 Grams a day for over 6 months is was as bad as 60mg aday of Oxycodone ,and when I say as bad I mean same exact withdrawal symptoms for me . Runny nose ,achy body , RLS ,anxiety ETC .

Hope you understand what I was trying to prove . Each is to there own ,and everyone bodies chemistry is different . Peace ,and I am not a troll . Just don't want anyone thinking they can buy kratom ,and stop taking it and have no consequences to pay .I don't think I fall in the troll category ;because if stating a fact and or the truth is a troll or as known as a prick then the whole web may possibly be full of them . Also I did sign many petitions to keep kratom legal .

d1ahp · May 24, 2015

cyndiann said:
I am not a man, I am not stupid. I am not a troll. Obviously serious discussion can't happen here. You are all too busy trashing people. Learn the difference between dependence and addiction. Learn what women are and how we should be treated. I depend on it to stop my pain but I have no withdrawals if I stop and most people don't. None of the links says kratom always causes withdrawals. Some are anecdotal about a single person's problems with it. I am the one being trolled here, and sadly it includes admins. That tells me a lot about this forum. And now I'm being chased in private messages as well.

Keep up with the news. Kratom was removed as a drug of concern by the feds. Did any of you help with the costs of bringing kratom friendly lobbyists that kept it legal in Florida and Louisiana? Have you signed the petitions to change the laws in the states that have made it illegal?

Find out what trolling is. trollingBeing a prick on the internet because you can. Typically unleashing one or more cynical or sarcastic remarks on an innocent by-stander, because it's the internet and, hey, you can.

Which means the trolls are d1ahp and crunkazcanbe and everyone who made the rude comments. Can't address the actual posts? Yeah, resort to name calling like children do.

Regardless of whether you're a man or a woman, there's one thing you are for sure; wrong. What's sad is that you choose to be wrong because you want to put yourself on a shelf above the addicts, which by the way you are one. So, you pretend that Kratom has no withdrawals. Because it helps you sleep at night thinking that you're better than some opiate addict that does have withdrawals upon cessation. But what do you do in between your Kratom shipments? You make sure to order the next shipment just in time so that your current one doesn't run out.

You haven't provided a single legit response to any of the facts that you were presented with by multiple people in this thread. You keep spouting mainly incoherent paragraphs that expose you for the Kratom addict that you are and your need to defend your dependence on it.

Your definition of a troll is as wrong as your opinions on Kratom and the withdrawals that it causes.

JohnnyLaLa · May 24, 2015

cyndiann said:
Ok, first of all kratom isn't an opiate so it's not like "any other opiate". And I am in contact with hundreds of people who are taking it and not a single one has experienced major withdrawal symptoms. Instead they are using it to withdraw off not only heroin and pain pills but methadone and suboxone. I see testimonials from people who use it to get clean about every day. If you want to change my mind on this show me, don't tell me to Google it. Even on Google the only negative info on withdrawal comes from commercial companies that make money off of drug dependence and are full of misinformation.

Also addiction doesn't come from prolonged use of any drug or from huge doses. Actual numbers show addiction in about 4% of the population but it's exaggerated quite a bit on a regular basis. If you have a propensity towards addiction it can happen from a single or a low dose and if you don't have it taking a lot won't make it happen.

The only thing I've been addicted to in my entire life has been cigarettes and I've taken a lot of drugs that others do get addicted to. I am fortunate in that way but so is most of the population. This is based on real numbers, not feelings or what I heard. I'm open to hearing about worse withdrawals. I'm not open to attitudes and condescending comments.

Stop talking out of your ass and read the DSM 5 and look up addiction. The symptoms needed for diagnosis have changed.

However this in NO WAY means that if you “are not addicted" but still use a substance that is an opiate/opioid agonist for a period of time(depends on person) you will 100% suffer from some form of opioid withdrawal.

Just as if you were to take an SSRI or even Wellbutrin every day you WILL suffer from withdrawal symptoms. There's really no way around it. If your dose is low, you might only notice minor discomfort or other minor disturbances. With large doses you will experience more withdrawal symptoms.

Fairly simple concept, just because Kratom is natural does not mean it comes with no negative effects.

Morphine and codeine are perfect examples of something natural causing uncomfortable withdrawals.

You wanna have fun and play around, be ready to pay the piper.

That's my rant, had to get it out. I

Opioids Acute Withdrawal from Tilidin

d1ahp

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《Plasticity》

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