Alkibiades
Greenlighter
- Joined
- Aug 14, 2015
- Messages
- 1
I have a pretty serious and weird problem which has been affecting my life very negatively for month now.
I am 29 yo, male, and except for daily consumption of caffeine and nicotine I have never used much drugs (only very occasionally).
Everything began when I ran into St. John’s Wort as a “natural” and freely obtainable mood booster. I tried it and the effects exceeded by far what I expected: I would feel much happier (even euphoric!), energetic, social, emotionally engaged with life, all my senses were enhanced and my body feeling was just incredible throughout the day. The effects were far from subtle! In fact they were so strong that I would call them life-changing if they had continued...
However, after two weeks my supply ran out and it took me a while to get hold of the same brand again. By coincidence I also got my hands on Adderall at the same time. Since I knew from experience that the St. John’s would take roughly 14 days to kick in I reckoned I could bridge this time with Adderall.
I began to take the Adderall (10mg + 10mg) the same day as I started taking the St. John’s again. Already on the second day I experienced a significant diminished return from the Adderall: significantly shorter and weaker effects of the same dose.
At this time I didn’t expect the St. John’s to have anything to do with this because a) I hadn’t found anything on the Internet suggesting that this was a bad combination and b) I didn’t really think of St. John’s as “medication” rather as a herbal supplement (in retrospect that was of course stupid especially given the strong effects St. John’s gave me).
So I carried on with this combination thinking that the St. John’s just reduces the effectiveness of the Adderall because of it’s inducing effects on the Cytochrome P450 (which is known to lower the effectiveness of many drugs).
And so I just increased the dose of the Adderall but with not much success: the effects where just not what I knew Adderall to feel like. I stopped doing this after ca. 10 days of this combination when I finally got no effects from 60mg (20+20+20) Adderall (usually 10mg are enough for me since I hadn’t used much Adderall in my life before, maybe 3 times!). During this time I also took Kratom and Etizolam daily for these 10 days to help with the come-down/falling asleep (so I basically also mixed these drugs with St. John’s).
After this I stopped taking Adderall as well as the St. John’s completely. The following days I felt horrible: extremely depressed, lethargic, heavy and hurting feet, anhedonia, no libido, brain-fog/feeling dull, no motivation, difficulties with sleep.
After a week of having stopped St. John’s I tried Adderall (20mg) again to lift me out of my negative condition. However, I would still not get much positive effects from it but only some undirected/nervous stimulation and no motivation, focus, euphoria etc. The next couple of days the symptoms I described above (anhedonia, brain-fog etc.) would be stronger. So I didn’t touch Adderall again.
I was in a permanent state where staying focused on tasks was extremely difficult, I had no motivation, felt lethargic and nothing would lift me out of this condition: my usual morning coffee had basically no positive but only negative effects on me: it would make me feel restless, jittery and would strangely lead to brain-fog, more lethargy and anhedonia (no interest in doing anything).
I overcame this state by completely abstaining from all drugs (also caffeine and even nicotine which would also give me lethargy and brain-fog) and doing exercise everyday. After roughly 4 weeks doing this I would finally again feel totally normal, i.e. all the negative symptoms had gone away and I was back to my old normal self.
But one thing is still not normal: drugs still don’t work. Caffeine and Kratom only lead to wakefulness/stimulation but no enhanced well-being etc. I also get no positive/pleasurable effects from alcohol, etizolam/xanax, codeine. Strangely also St. John’s doesn’t work for me anymore.
In general, uppers seem to physically stimulate me (making me feel jittery and nervous) without any sense of well-being/pleasure. Downers (like alcohol and Etizolam) make me feel dull, drowsy, stoned but also no enhanced sense of well-being.
The only drug that has always worked normally is Cannabis (however, I don’t use it much anyway)!
It feels as if something in my body is blocking the positive effects of drugs from all classes (uppers, downers and even opioids i.e Kratom!). The onset of a drug’s effect is usually mildly pleasant and before the full effects have set in it completely levels-off leaving me with the side-effects of the drug but no euphoria etc.
However, the first coffee after the 4 weeks of total abstinence gave me significantly better effects than what I would get before: some of the positive effects were present but still not to the degree one would expect. The effects would deteriorate from day to day (from morning coffee to morning coffee) until they were basically gone. Hence it seems as if this very first coffee somehow reset the mechanism behind this immunity to drugs.
So the question is: what is going on with my brain?
I now know that St. John’s effects seem to be pretty broad. Among many other effects it inhibits the reuptake of monoamines (specifically, dopamine, norepinephrine, and serotonin), GABA, and glutamate. It also seems to activate the opioid receptors.
But I really don’t understand the mechanism behind what is happening to me. It has been 6 month now (!!) since I have done the Adderall + St. John’s combination! For the most part of this time I have consumed Kratom daily even though it didn’t give me the desired effects (but the effects I did get were still better than my normal state).
I have had some success with my TOTAL abstinence + exercise approach but I don’t understand why drinking coffee can do damage. Can it be that I have down regulated all kind of receptors at the same time by combining St. John’s with drugs (Adderall, Kratom and Etizolam)? This would be an explanation. But can this combination lead to this outcome?
How long do I have to abstain from ALL drugs (this is very difficult for me because without my morning coffee I have never really functioned!) to regain normality again? I would really like to understand the mechanism behind this better so that I can do the right thing to overcome this condition.
I really don’t know to whom to turn to with this problem. That’s why I haven’t consulted a doctor so far. I wouldn’t know what to tell them and in all honesty doubt that they would be able to help me anyway.
Thanks to everyone having read all this and especially to everyone who can give me some input. I am quite desperate to be honest.
I am 29 yo, male, and except for daily consumption of caffeine and nicotine I have never used much drugs (only very occasionally).
Everything began when I ran into St. John’s Wort as a “natural” and freely obtainable mood booster. I tried it and the effects exceeded by far what I expected: I would feel much happier (even euphoric!), energetic, social, emotionally engaged with life, all my senses were enhanced and my body feeling was just incredible throughout the day. The effects were far from subtle! In fact they were so strong that I would call them life-changing if they had continued...
However, after two weeks my supply ran out and it took me a while to get hold of the same brand again. By coincidence I also got my hands on Adderall at the same time. Since I knew from experience that the St. John’s would take roughly 14 days to kick in I reckoned I could bridge this time with Adderall.
I began to take the Adderall (10mg + 10mg) the same day as I started taking the St. John’s again. Already on the second day I experienced a significant diminished return from the Adderall: significantly shorter and weaker effects of the same dose.
At this time I didn’t expect the St. John’s to have anything to do with this because a) I hadn’t found anything on the Internet suggesting that this was a bad combination and b) I didn’t really think of St. John’s as “medication” rather as a herbal supplement (in retrospect that was of course stupid especially given the strong effects St. John’s gave me).
So I carried on with this combination thinking that the St. John’s just reduces the effectiveness of the Adderall because of it’s inducing effects on the Cytochrome P450 (which is known to lower the effectiveness of many drugs).
And so I just increased the dose of the Adderall but with not much success: the effects where just not what I knew Adderall to feel like. I stopped doing this after ca. 10 days of this combination when I finally got no effects from 60mg (20+20+20) Adderall (usually 10mg are enough for me since I hadn’t used much Adderall in my life before, maybe 3 times!). During this time I also took Kratom and Etizolam daily for these 10 days to help with the come-down/falling asleep (so I basically also mixed these drugs with St. John’s).
After this I stopped taking Adderall as well as the St. John’s completely. The following days I felt horrible: extremely depressed, lethargic, heavy and hurting feet, anhedonia, no libido, brain-fog/feeling dull, no motivation, difficulties with sleep.
After a week of having stopped St. John’s I tried Adderall (20mg) again to lift me out of my negative condition. However, I would still not get much positive effects from it but only some undirected/nervous stimulation and no motivation, focus, euphoria etc. The next couple of days the symptoms I described above (anhedonia, brain-fog etc.) would be stronger. So I didn’t touch Adderall again.
I was in a permanent state where staying focused on tasks was extremely difficult, I had no motivation, felt lethargic and nothing would lift me out of this condition: my usual morning coffee had basically no positive but only negative effects on me: it would make me feel restless, jittery and would strangely lead to brain-fog, more lethargy and anhedonia (no interest in doing anything).
I overcame this state by completely abstaining from all drugs (also caffeine and even nicotine which would also give me lethargy and brain-fog) and doing exercise everyday. After roughly 4 weeks doing this I would finally again feel totally normal, i.e. all the negative symptoms had gone away and I was back to my old normal self.
But one thing is still not normal: drugs still don’t work. Caffeine and Kratom only lead to wakefulness/stimulation but no enhanced well-being etc. I also get no positive/pleasurable effects from alcohol, etizolam/xanax, codeine. Strangely also St. John’s doesn’t work for me anymore.
In general, uppers seem to physically stimulate me (making me feel jittery and nervous) without any sense of well-being/pleasure. Downers (like alcohol and Etizolam) make me feel dull, drowsy, stoned but also no enhanced sense of well-being.
The only drug that has always worked normally is Cannabis (however, I don’t use it much anyway)!
It feels as if something in my body is blocking the positive effects of drugs from all classes (uppers, downers and even opioids i.e Kratom!). The onset of a drug’s effect is usually mildly pleasant and before the full effects have set in it completely levels-off leaving me with the side-effects of the drug but no euphoria etc.
However, the first coffee after the 4 weeks of total abstinence gave me significantly better effects than what I would get before: some of the positive effects were present but still not to the degree one would expect. The effects would deteriorate from day to day (from morning coffee to morning coffee) until they were basically gone. Hence it seems as if this very first coffee somehow reset the mechanism behind this immunity to drugs.
So the question is: what is going on with my brain?
I now know that St. John’s effects seem to be pretty broad. Among many other effects it inhibits the reuptake of monoamines (specifically, dopamine, norepinephrine, and serotonin), GABA, and glutamate. It also seems to activate the opioid receptors.
But I really don’t understand the mechanism behind what is happening to me. It has been 6 month now (!!) since I have done the Adderall + St. John’s combination! For the most part of this time I have consumed Kratom daily even though it didn’t give me the desired effects (but the effects I did get were still better than my normal state).
I have had some success with my TOTAL abstinence + exercise approach but I don’t understand why drinking coffee can do damage. Can it be that I have down regulated all kind of receptors at the same time by combining St. John’s with drugs (Adderall, Kratom and Etizolam)? This would be an explanation. But can this combination lead to this outcome?
How long do I have to abstain from ALL drugs (this is very difficult for me because without my morning coffee I have never really functioned!) to regain normality again? I would really like to understand the mechanism behind this better so that I can do the right thing to overcome this condition.
I really don’t know to whom to turn to with this problem. That’s why I haven’t consulted a doctor so far. I wouldn’t know what to tell them and in all honesty doubt that they would be able to help me anyway.
Thanks to everyone having read all this and especially to everyone who can give me some input. I am quite desperate to be honest.
