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Acetylcholinesterase inhibitors & LSD/psilocybin combination

Ektor

Bluelighter
Joined
Mar 8, 2012
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What should one expect, pharmacologically, behaviorally and subjectively from a combination of an acetylcholinesterase inhibitor like Galantamine or Huperzine-A and a serotonergic psychedelic like LSD or psilocybin mushrooms? Are there possible harmful effects? Synergies?

Classical (serotonergic) psychedelics act on the 5HT2A receptor and are well known to produce enhancement of creativity, imagination, intuition and a sharpening & distortion of perception as well as an overall dream like state while retaining full consciousness.

On the other side reversible acetylcholinesterase inhibitors, like the ones just cited, are more commonly used as nootropics to sharpen memory, attention and general cognitive abilities in patients with dementia-like diseases and as mind boosters in the general population.
The other not as well known properties of these substances are increase in REM sleep duration, sleep quality improvement, enhanced vividness and recall of dreams. For these reasons many people uses them for purposes of lucid dream & OBE induction and to enhance dreams recall.

I wander what the effects of such a combination would be, and i believe we could expect greater ability to recall experience and insights after the session, greater lucidity and an enhanced working memory during the experience, useful for giving a purpose and an intentional direction to the experience i.e. guiding the psychedelic state to obtain more precise therapeutic effects.
However sadly reports of such combos are very rare to non-existant (me never tried neither the combo nor the AChEIs by themselves) and having more information on this would be of incredible value so, in the absence of reports we could try to elucidate the matter through pharmacologic inference.

What are the interactions of the brains Cholinergic and Seroronergic systems? (How) do they influence each other?
In specific, what are the interactions of 5HT2A rec with the cholinergic system?
The 5HT2A receptor is a receptor subject to functional selectivity, it means that different agonists elicit a different Second Messenger in response to receptor activation. For example Serotonin, when bound to the receptor, gives Inositol Triphosphate as its second messenger, on the contrary LSD and classical psychedelics have Arachidonic Acid as second messenger.
How does the arachidonic acid signaling couples with cholinergic transmission?

I would expect strong synergy between these two kinds of substances but i would like to open a discussion, i want to hear some of you well informed geeks but any input is really appreciated as this subject is pretty obscure and unknown!!!

Bom Shiva!!!
 
I'd like to offer some help but I'll save myself the embarrassment.
May I just say though that your knowledge of psychopharmacology is incredibly impressive :\
 
I would say,
that you couldnt really predict the drugs in this sense using this level of analysis to build a predictive model.
The truth is,
Mindset about everything, the ingestive route, the diet and of course general feelings about potent drugs such as these play into our experiences...

Self-science, the psience of psychonaughtical engineering (your instinct sort of) might say so though and reflect so... Who knows - im up for hearing interesting experiences....

Mostly, i think we know nothing too much of behaviour and genetics/nature/nurture all comes into the realm of 'insight' and 'imagination' possibly the occults calling in the future...
 
I was reading a paper, well a web site, about the Psychedelic Information Theory(i'd like to post a link of it on a new thread if it is allowed to post links to different sites and if anyone hasn't done it already) when this analogy between the psychedelic experience and lucid dreaming came to my mind, so i made this thread where maybe some of you advanced drug folks could say something more about the interaction of these two drug classes that best give rise to said different states of consciousness.
I am a clinical psychology student and i have many years of substance (ab)use behind me so i look at these states with uttermost fascination!
Is anyone of you aware of any trip reports, clinical studies or anything regarding this combination?
 
Going on with the study of the Psychedelic Information Theory i came upon a page about Eidetic hallucinations aka complex fully formed visions. Eidetics may represent the end stage of the psychedelic experience, where the fuzzy blurry fractal distortion-like hallucinations take shape into faces, figures, complex landscapes and so on, content of eidetics is usually associated with intense emotion and deep personal meaning, really useful for psychological and shamanic therapy and analysis.
Eidetics have a lot in common with lucid dreaming and could have the same potentials, they arise usually from the entheogenic use of powerful substances like DMT, Iboga and Ketamine. They are also associated and facilitated by high brain acetylcholine levels, it has been studied that the combination of classical psychedelics like LSD with high doses of galantamine+choline produce very intense spontaneous eidetics hallucinations, sometimes to the point of being overwhelming to the user.

My point is using LOW DOSE OF BOTH psychedelics and AChE-inhibitors to generate psychedelic experiences with a high level meaningful personal content eidetics for purposes of personal development and psychotherapy.

It seems a very promising yet poorly explored field!
 
I know it's been a while since this thread was active, but if anyone's still interested, I have some insight into Bufotenin & 5meoDMT + Hup-A (& less significantly, psilocybin) a little over a year ago; and took 300mcg Hup-A a few hours ago, about to take 3.5g psilocybin tonight. Times tripping in between and a impactful psilocybin trip last Summer were all late night with Hup-A took early in the morning without much thought as to how it'd effect the trip at all (as Hup-A was just a daily supplement for me by that point, not that I didn't consider it's interactions with psychadelics between trips every now and then). I just came across this forum because something told me I should get around *now* to looking up what the distinct effects of the combination might be/have been. If I can answer any questions or shed light on anything specific about it I'd be happy to, but on a final note - most don't have to be expecting a panic attack, I don't know what that's based on, but I will say to Ektor's point, I think most people would definitely want to avoid it because the Eidetics are very, very personal and overwhelmingly familiar with the combo - not quite deja vu, but think Jung. I think memory lets things go sometimes for a reason, not suppressed but released. I'd say if you'd be down, genuinely, to try Iboga though, ever, or feel at peace with your 'shadow,' go ahead.
 
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