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  • AADD Moderators: swilow | Vagabond696

A word of caution re: clubs and drugs

lostNfound

Bluelight Crew
Joined
Mar 20, 2005
Messages
13,678
> Following parliament earlier in the week, the introduction of Sniffer Dogs
> in clubs is being fast tracked, so I thought I'd send out some potentially
> usefull information should you innocently get caught up in such a practice
> while out drinking.
>
> The poice are only entitled to stop and search you if, and only if, they
> reasonably suspect you of carrying drugs, or a knife, or goods stolen or
> unlawfully obtained. If a dog picks you out, the is a basis for reasonable
> suspicion. However, if you have any doubt about why you are being searched,
> ask the officer to tell you what the basis for reasonable suspcion is, and
> to write that in their notebook. Then tell them that you don't consent to
> the search (and get that noted in the notebook) and then submit to the
> search. The difference between consenting and submitting may seem trivial
> but it may make the difference between the search being legal or illegal.
>
> Obviously, it is an excellent idea to be as polite to the police as
> possible. "I'm sorry, officer, I don't wish to answer that question" is a
> much better response than "Youse c---- have got nothin'".
>
> If you are detected with cannabis only, the police may opt to issue you with
>
> a cannabis caution rather than giving you a court attendance notice. A
> cannabis caution means you don't go to court, hence no fine and no criminal
> record (but you don't get your drugs back, obviously.) The issue of a
> cannabis caution is entirely up to the officer - you can't demand one.
> However, here are the eligibility criteria so that you know whether you
> might be able to suggest it:
>
> (a) the offender must possess no more than 15 grams of dried cannabis and/or
>
> equipment for the use of cannabis;
>
> (b) the offender must be an adult;
>
> (c) the identity of the offender must be confirmed using normal checks;
>
> (d) sufficient evidence to prosecute the offender must exist;
>
> (e) the drug must be for personal use only;
>
> (f) the offender must not be involved in any other criminal offence at the
> time, for which a brief of evidence would be submitted;
>
> (g) the offender must have no prior convictions for drug, violent or sexual
> offences;
>
> (h) the offender must admit to the offence;
>
> (i) the offender must consent to the caution and sign the caution notice;
> and
>
> (j) the caution must be appropriate.
>
> - If you are detected with a substance, think carefully about whether you
> identify that substance to the police. Obviously if you are caerrying
> cannabis and you want to get a caution, you will need to admit that the
> substance is cannabis. However, if you are carrying something in tablet or
> powder form, you may think it wiser not to identify to the police what sort
> of tablet or powder it is. This means that the police will have to test it
> before they can charge you, and for small amounts, they may not bother
> (There is also the situation that Qld's testing centre has a 6-12 month
> backlog). The risk in this, however, is that if you do identify the
> substance to the police, then your co-operation can be used as a positive
> factor if you are subsequently charged.
>
> - Telling lies to the police is a bad idea. Saying nothing (or, Oficcer, I
> don't wish to answer that question") is a better option.
>
> All of this is in the nature of general comment & shouldn't be considered
> legal advice.
>




source - received via email.
just a heads up.
 
lostNfound said:

and for small amounts, they may not bother (There is also the situation that Qld's testing centre has a 6-12 month backlog).

Has anybody had first hand (or second... ) experience of small amounts that cops haven't bothered to test?
I'm interested to know if maybe cops are taught not to bother with x grams of y. And if so, whats x.
Does anybody know of other states backlogs? or a source to find out?

Also, cheers for the info, lostNfound.
 
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interesting read lostNfound. just wondering, does anyone know what sorta search they will conduct?

will they fully strip u down or what?
 
just a note I am pretty sure, that was written by legal- affairs, a lawer, who mods another dance based site, and as such it is relevant for nsw only.
 
Re: Re: A word of caution re: clubs and drugs

phatwithapkoolwithak said:
Has anybody had first hand (or second... ) experience of small amounts that cops haven't bothered to test? I've had cops not bother with weed (I'm not talking testing... just not bothering at all) a few times, not even a caution, just a "don't be stupid boys". Of course, they were measly amounts.
I'm interested to know if maybe cops are taught not to bother with x grams of y. And if so, whats x.
Does anybody know of other states backlogs? or a source to find out?

Well i was caught with a pill, a gram of weed and 20 dexies which i had a script for but were in a satty (if they were in the perscription bottle might have been a different story). I intially said i had found the pill on the ground and didn't know what it was but later just admitted it was ecstasy because it was clear they were gunna test it and it was a lexus so no chance it was bunk. The dexies i said were dexies straight away and my parents brought up an empty bottle to back up the story i have a script also they have D5 printed on them so they are distinctive but the police still said they wanted to get them tested (im guessing they thought they might be pills). My lawyer told me there is quite a backlog for drug testing at the NSW centre and it took about 6 months before my case finally came to trial after the police prosecutor got the results back that they were dexamphetamine and dropped the charge of "possession of 20 unknown tablets" or something similar.

I would say it's pretty wishful thinking that they might not bother to test the drugs, in my case they were just checking my story was true and i already had a lot of evidence to back it up, also claiming you're unsure what the substance is probably comes off a bit smart arse i can't see a lot of cops just letting everything slide after doing this.
 
Nat: don't police in NSW already have the right to use sniffer dogs in Night Clubs ? If so why the mention of a recent sitting of parliament and the Qld testing center. Its it a federal facility?
 
Thats correct, Police do have the power to raid nightclubs with Sniffer dogs. Police even have the power to shut down nightclubs, if certain laws regarding the operation are not being met
 
Hmmm... it's a good email, pretty useful stuff - but appears a little lacking in contextual details...

BigTrancer :)
 
Then tell them that you don't consent to the search (and get that noted in the notebook) and then submit to the search. The difference between consenting and submitting may seem trivial but it may make the difference between the search being legal or illegal.


I don't quite understand the comment. CONSENT and SUBMIT. Why say, I do not consent to this search. Than say I submit myself to this seach....

When you *submit* do you mean that you pull out your own pockets? or are you saying. I DONT CONSENT THIS ACTION, But will SUBMIT MYSELF TO THIS SEARCH ???

I don't quite understand what is meant by this. If someone could explain that would be great. Thanks

SpecTBK
=D
 
It is basically making the police officer record the event of the search, and record your disapproval of it. You are legally obligated to allow the search, but your opposition to it now exists. From there it may be possible to explore a legal avenue, but this would be impossible it wasn't recorded.
 
I don't quite understand the comment. CONSENT and SUBMIT. Why say, I do not consent to this search. Than say I submit myself to this seach....

When you *submit* do you mean that you pull out your own pockets? or are you saying. I DONT CONSENT THIS ACTION, But will SUBMIT MYSELF TO THIS SEARCH ???

It means submit without consent..... i.e. do not allow them to conduct the search, tell them you are not permitting the search to be conducted, but if they still persist in wanting to conduct the search, then do not put up any physical resistance to the search itself.

Submit would be better substituted with "do not resist" to avoid confusion.

Submit = do not resist physically if they attempt to search you : it is usually not a good idea to physically resist unless you are in the mood to receive (or give) a good thumping... but having said that, an unlawful reaction (within reason) to the unlawful action of a police officer is often not punished in court by a judge because it was directly brought about by the misconduct of the police officer.

Consent = Allow them to search you by saying something like "yes you may search me" or answering their command "I will search you now" with an "Ok sir".

So, in summary, the important thing to remember is that to submit without consent involves clearly expressing verbally that you do not allow the police to search you and asking that your objection to the search be recorded (as CM described above), but not resisting their physical efforts to search you if they decide to conduct a search.

I would probably also avoid assisting them in their search, i.e. if they ask YOU to empty your pockets, don't do it - that is part and parcel with not consenting in my opinion - having you do the dirty work for them may make it more difficult for you to claim that you objected to the search. If they then decide to feel your pockets up themselves, don't slap their hands away, just let them do it i.e. do not resist physically. If they pat you down and feel something obvious hidden in your pocket or beneath your clothes, I think that they may then ask you to produce the object and that you are obliged to (if it is a lawful search etc etc)..... but I'll avoid in-depth discussion in this thread for fear of replicating the material in here: Perth - YOUR RIGHTS REGARDING SEARCHES
 
someone i was with(not me of coarse) was once caught with bout 7 unidentified downers of some kind and some gunja and was told he would goto court and nothin ever happened. another time the same person i was with was caught with the left overs of a crushed up pill in a sachet .he admitted to it cooperated fully and the cop put it down a drain.
 
^It depends who the officer is and if he is with any other people. It can be useful to co operate when you're talking small amounts but if you have anything substantial on you, you may as well not consent using the methods described above.

If you get a good lawyer you might have a chance.
 
what to do if you have pills on you, i don't see the cops just 'letting it slip' (im talking about small amount for personal use) and can the dogs detect MDMA?
 
^ [Edit: Dangerous advice removed. BT]

Also dogs sniff out what they are trained to sniff out. Then they either come sit next to you or bark or scratch, or again, whatever they are trained to do. Different specialty dogs for explosives, fruit and veg, and drugs. They can sniff out MDMA.

I got below from http://www.prweb.com/releases/2004/12/prwebxml188320.php

German invention that uses real odours to train little sniffer doggys.
SOKKS-Explosives is free from licensing requirements. SOKKS-Explosives™ is not pseudo it is pure odour. SOKKS-Explosives™ trained dogs have been tested and certified on:

- Ammonia Gel
- Ammonia Nitrate Hexogen (RDX)
- Potassium Chlorate
- Potassium Nitrate
- Sodium Chlorate
- Nitro-glycerine
- Nitropenta (PETN)
- Nitrocellulose
- Oktogen
- Black Powder
- Gunpowder
- TNT
- Weapons
- Ammunition
- Artillery Shells

Now Available - SOKKS-DRUGS™
SOKKS-Drugs™ will condition a dog to detect:

Heroin
Cocaine
Marihuana
Hashish
LSD
Methamphetamines
Ecstasy (MDMA)
 
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interesting call re: swallowing the gear asap. is it better to be done for drugs in the system rather than drugs in possession? obviously that'd only apply when you have a small amount which is possible to down in one go.

lostNfound said:
However, if you have any doubt about why you are being searched,
> ask the officer to tell you what the basis for reasonable suspcion is, and
> to write that in their notebook. Then tell them that you don't consent to
> the search (and get that noted in the notebook) and then submit to the
> search.
anyone know what your options are if they refuse to comply with your requests:
a) submit to the search anyway?
b) non-violently attempt to prevent the search?
 
Re: Re: A word of caution re: clubs and drugs

zag0r said:
is it better to be done for drugs in the system rather than drugs in possession?

My thoughts are you can't get in trouble unless you are operating heavy machinery. For example a car. In Victoria maybe.

Am I wrong?

Perhaps "intoxification from an illicit substance whilst in a public place", but I don't think so. If you were really whacked out the cops would probably just chuck you in an over nighter, and you'd get stuck with the guy that was picked up for going pants down in the middle of a crowded intersection.

I doubt you could ever get a criminal record arising from being under the influence of a few little pills. Especially one that was severe enough to restrict your personal liberties, ie keep you out of the US, etc. etc.
 
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^Under NSW law you can get done for self-administration of a prohibited drug i'm not sure if they would try prove this by a blood test but if you grabbed something out of your pocket and swallowed it right in front of an cop when an he told you he was about to search i doubt it would be the end of your problems.
 
^ No, you're right. I wouldn't suggest eating your stash right in front of the police, that's dangerous talk. Also you wouldn't want to do it with anymore than said individual could handle. But I'm sure people would find it largely more enjoyable than a criminal record.

Hypothetically, the establishment is being shut down, the house lights have come on. People are being impolitely ushered out, there are cops filtering through the doors, and chinese whispers tells you they are picking people up outside with sniffer doggys. You are inside. You have two pills on you. What do you do?
 
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