Opioids A very broad comparison of opiates versus stimulants.

[Bomb319]

I honestly could never understand what some people see in drugs like meth or crack. I mean I obviously am aware that everyone is different, with different likes, dislikes and biochemistry. However for me, opiates just give such a strong, amazing and addictive rush followed by many hours of very pleasurable nodding and sleep (or at least they did at first) and some of the most amazing experiences in my life were after taking a bunch of Percocet pills at the same time. Sighh...I know it isn't good to wax poetic about how good a drug was, but those early Perc days were simply pure bliss. I had no idea what I was in for; no idea that taking just a few normal-looking pills could have such a profound and permanent effect on my life. It was the fabled and oft-chased "honeymoon phase" - the first of many (before the snorting honeymoon and shotting honeymoon over the years to come). Little to no worries of addiction, no debt since it was a legit Rx, hours of playing my fave video games cozy in my room at night, just so very much at peace and feeling so good just lying there. I paid for this dearly in the end, of course. Even so, after the following years of hell and true torment, a deadly infection, losing all my friends, nearly losing my family, and getting a criminal record, I STILL can't help but look back fondly on those first few months where I was prescribed 100 Percocets per month, refillable every month. For the first 2 or 3 months, just 4 of them and nothing else would have me nodding like a fiend. I should point out that up until that point, I had been prescribed Tylenol with codeine (30 mg per pill) but never abused them, nor thought of them as being abusable in the first place. I had T3's left that expired 5 years prior. That would not and could not be possible once I got properly addicted, of course.

Anyway, they were such a new experience for me and sooooo much better than any other drug I've ever tried before, it was truly a case of love at first sight (or swallow lol). I have fonder memories and remember the feeling as better than eventual shooting up of heroin with decent quality. Once I got heavily into that, it reigned king of course. But all else being equal and especially considering the lack of addiction-related stress and anxiety at the beginning, those Percs had everything else beat by a country mile.

Opiates are one of those rare things in life where you could see them as the greatest thing ever and the worst thing ever simultaneously. As most of you here already know, it is absolutely not a beast in which you can tread lightly and make rational decisions. Even a few vicodin pills had me in bliss in those early stages. Hell, I even got pleasantly wasted in a nearly favorable comparison to the percs from TRAMADOL once or twice. After any semblance of addiction, Tramadol is a drug that somehow produces no opiate pleasure or extremely little (a bit less than codeine, but with way worse side effects which all but mask it), a lower seizure threshold, the risk of APAP poisoning (Tramacet) etc.

With opiates, I felt as though I had been missing out on some incredible secret hidden all my life when I first had them. As I said before, love at first sight doesn't do it justice. I not only felt amazing, but I would also be stimulated moderately and talk incessantly with family and friends - just being truly happy overall, despite it being due to an artificial drug. Now stims - I had more than my fair share of all of them concurrent with my addiction. I tried pretty much everything: methylphenidate, Adderall, Dexedrine, cocaine (IV and nasal), crack fairly often, meth just 4-5 times but also IV and smoked, and once or twice with MDMA. NONE of those drugs produced any semblance of psychological addiction to me, and only a few were even subjectively what I would call "enjoyable" and worth it in the first place. Sure, when I had the addict's lifestyle and mindset, I would buy crack and/or blow along with my dope if I could afford it simply because it was there and another way to get high. More often than not, I would just use some of it over and over as something to do, without ever getting a "real" rush from ANY of it despite repeated use and attempts, and became addicted to it (crack and coke) only to the extent that I would buy it daily for awhile mostly as something to do, but ONLY IF I WAS ALREADY HIGH FROM OPIATES.

I would NOT take stims while not opiated or withdrawing. I have, and it sucked. Even when I WAS high, it was kind of fun and not to mention incredibly dangerous to shoot rig after rig of blow. punctuated with some H or dilaudids here and there. Again, what I REALLY enjoyed was purchasing it, cooking it and shooting it. In fact, more often than not I would feel very anxious and jittery afterwards, not being sure even to my own mind I was even bothering to continue with it if it was around. I would never go out of my way to get it. When the time came where I began to be randomly tested for methadone take-home doses, I quit abruptly and have not used since and rarely even think of it outside of contexts like this. That was almost a year ago now, and I am starting to feel as though I'm even losing the procedural memory how to prep a pipe properly. There is no love lost there.

Yet I have no problem admitting that I will most likely be on opiates for life. I'm on 220 mg methadone now, and for the most part it's been a literal lifesaver. I still get "high" from it - not quite like an H rish of course, but I still feel very good and relaxed, yet often energetic and stimulated after my dose. Right now, I just can't see living without opiates in some form. I really don't thinlk it's even an issue of willpower. I honestly feel as though they "completed me" when I first started. As though I had a very low natural endorphon level my entire life. Supporting this theory are the chronic and often moderately debilitating symptoms I had which could be attributed to this, though I did not realize that at the time: chronic diarrhea-based IBS for seemingly no reason. Has made for many awkward social occasions, let me tell you O_O. 2. frequent migraine headaches, usually debilitating and always with aura. Required lying in a dark room for at least 4 hours, regardless of where I happened to be when the attack first took place. This is also the condition that led to my being prescribed so much Percocet in the first place.

Wanna know what's really fucked up? Nearly 8 years laterm after all that it destroyed in my life, all my posessions gone, friends gone, family very close to being gone and maintaining somewhat mistrust all around, physical and mental hell - especially the daily cycle of getting cash and scoring and including the true hell that followed if I couldn't, and finally debt that is embarrassing to admit even here on this forum, as it exceeds four hundred thousand dollars...and the ultimate loss - failing and having to drop out out the faculty of pharmaceutical sciences (yes I know, irony). I am now unemployed (although thanks to methadone, I can and am looking for work) and lost my chance for a good life and wealth. But you ask what the really fucked up part beyond all that which I alluded to earlier?

If you asked me if I would do it all again if I were handed a bottle of percs with no tolerance....I can pretty safely say I would. I love them and despise them, but they are a part of me I can't excise. I am honestly unsure if this is defeatist thinking or not, but I simply can't imagine living the rest of my life without them and ever being happy. Yes I know this is what happens during withdrawal, yet I tried becoming clean many times. I made it nearly 6 months in another city. Yet I woke up depressed and miserable every day, even with excess sweat and shivering after all that time had passed. Not long after that, I had discovered Kratom and life suddenly became liveable again. Even now with my methadone, I am not really that worried about what hell it will be to come off of, simply because I honestly don't think I ever WILL come off of it. At least not with my current and so far only way of thinking. If I'm truly honest with myself, I don't think I have it in me to quit. If I did, I don't want to. They truly are a part of me now, and as much god awful torment they have put me through...well, I just can't seem to stay mad at them. Part of this may be that it has cured my IBS (as long as I take my doses of course), my chronically stuffy nose, and to a great extent - even some of my depression. This is all in conjunction with its promary intended effect of finally freeing me from street opiates.

I haven't used H or pills in a year, and no longer have any real cravings for it that methadone can't fix.


Long post - thanks for reading


EDIT - I meant to say that Tramadol causes a LOWER seizure threshold, of course.

Thanks for all your input

 

[neurotic]

i'll admit that i do not read entirely, but firstly i agree, opiates are universally drugs that make you feel great, period. it's like they directly press the pleasure button in the brain, and that's it. i can't imagine or have seen or heard about someone disliking the opiate high. "oh yeah i just laid down while angels caressed my body, but it was meh", doesn't happen

on the other hand, stimulant euphoria is more subjective. some people enjoy it some don't. i'll talk about the two stimulants that i have done. firstly, mph. i love feeling full of energy, heart racing on my chest, and feeling like everything is possible and every task is doable and takes no mental effort. i can see how some people might actually feel more anxious and dislike that. so again, it's not for everyone.

but then there is cocaine, which is a very peculiar one. like you said, the effects SUCK. not pleasurable at all - awake, sure, but not alert, only anxious and with angst. the thing though about cocaine is that these are just side-effects from it, the main effect is craving more coke. seriously, cocaine is the most reinforcing drug on the planet. you can snort your wallet empty and not feel subjectively good at all for a second, and still want more. IV and crack do have a very intense and nice rush, but then again it's all angst, and i guess that's how it gets to people.

i can't talk about amphetamines or meth cause i never tried them, but that's my two cents on the subject: opiates do feel great, stimulants such as MPH some people enjoy and some don't, cocaine makes you want more cocaine regardless of you liking it or not

not like you can compare them on their acute effects really imo, they are milk and fruit loops - nothing a like but go damn well together in a full rig

peace

 

[TheLostBoys]

Long post, read most of it, was there a question in there?

As for the differences between opiates & stims, huge differences.

I tried stims long before opiates.....never understood the excitement of having your heart trying to beat out of your chest. Stayed awake for days, come downs are terrible w/o a benzo.

Opiates make my pain go away & make everything feel alright.

It seems the biggest problem people have after years of binging on opiates & everything coming to a halt is MONEY!

I've always wondered if this site would have all these stories of people selling their possessions, losing friends, & possibly family if they had tons of money that could supply them for the rest of their lives.

Would these people have died from a drug overdose since they have all the money to buy whatever they need whenever?

OP, I see you're in debt about 400k, & that was done in about 8 years........that seems like you got yourself onto a serious habit pretty quick

How long did it take you to go from using Percs to Heroin?

I do know people that have tried stims & opiates & hate both, & won't touch them.again......so not everyone likes drugs.

 

[dez79]

yes the stepping stones of opiates , first step Codiene "ah this feels nice" second step the codones, "Holy Shit this feels incredible", Third step Morphine "Hooray what a rush this shit is the bomb", fourth step H OMG! Flying High, HIGH" now the other steps seem duller, now what etc... if you can stop at one step and be satisfied stop there. Same goes with Stims

 

[Ozle]

Never enjoyed stims at all personally, despite having ADHD and serious problems concentrating. Opiates I've yet to touch, though I find downers in general (particularly alcohol and Xanax) do wonders for my anxiety, so it's only a matter of time.

 

[dez79]

All cns depressants do wonderfully for anxiety but problem is the rebound and tolerance

 

[Bomb319]

I meant to say that Tramadol causes a LOWER seizure threshold, of course.

Thanks for all your input

 

[Bomb319]

Long post, read most of it, was there a question in there?

As for the differences between opiates & stims, huge differences.

I tried stims long before opiates.....never understood the excitement of having your heart trying to beat out of your chest. Stayed awake for days, come downs are terrible w/o a benzo.

Opiates make my pain go away & make everything feel alright.

It seems the biggest problem people have after years of binging on opiates & everything coming to a halt is MONEY!

I've always wondered if this site would have all these stories of people selling their possessions, losing friends, & possibly family if they had tons of money that could supply them for the rest of their lives.

Would these people have died from a drug overdose since they have all the money to buy whatever they need whenever?

OP, I see you're in debt about 400k, & that was done in about 8 years........that seems like you got yourself onto a serious habit pretty quick

How long did it take you to go from using Percs to Heroin?

I do know people that have tried stims & opiates & hate both, & won't touch them.again......so not everyone likes drugs.

Couldn't agree more; same goes for the post above yours.

I'm not trying to rag on stims, as I know that they are the drug of choice for many. Like I said in my OP, everybody is different, and has different physiology and metabolism, sp what is good for one may be awful for another. However, that said, my point is that I really have a hard time imagining how someone can NOT enjoy opiates. I'm not talking about those who try them for the first time and take too much or are unprepared for their effectsand puke. I understand that can certainly be nasty, and I unfortunately experienced this BIG TIME during my first experience with kratom. I started to feel great at first, but then that wonderful opiate feeling rather quickly gave way to ever-worsening nausea followed by a spectacular bout of puking - my first in fact in over ten years, and it ushered in my era of addiction, withdrawal, and much more frequent puking after that.

A few years later after coming off of a severe IV heroin addiction, I became reacquainted with kratom in the form of enhanced extract and found that to be MUCH better than consuming copious amounts of regular crushed leaf. The only problem with that is that I could only get it from a local headshop which charged 25 bucks a pop for one bag. With little to no tolerance, I could easily use 2 bags a day and sometimes 3. Needless to say, I ended up spending literally thousands of dollars that summer, and all on weak opiates. I had no connects at all in that city - nor did I want to try, despite fiending for dope desperately at first. It is a very violent city, the murder capital of Canada (Winnipeg) and I knew that H would be hard to find there anyway even if I did know the right people.

 

[Nom de Plume]

Different strokes for different folks, as the platitude goes. While the polydrug user abounds—especially amongst the more intelligent population—one still very rarely encounters the polydrug addict, as I'd expect.

I see recreational substance misuse as different to substance addiction or substance dependence. The latter two are almost always a product of the user attempting self-medication, whereas the former is typically not.

What prevents me to use cocaine with compulsion, and what prevents the addict of cocaine from using without compulsion? Why can practically everybody that drinks know when to stop drinking alcohol, and why can I not put the bottle down once I pick it up?

Why do I feel nothing but nausea and vertigo when I pop oxycodone or inject heroin, yet other people seem to think opioids are more pleasurable than sex itself?

Everybody has their poison. The psychopath, narcissist, and neurotic have a proclivity toward alcoholism. The depressed, anhedonic, apathetic, psychopathic, and narcissistic have a tendency toward stimulants. And, from what little I've read, it seems that people with anger problems, depression, and psychopathy are prone to opioid addictions.

Different kinds of drugs act differently. And different kinds of mental problems are better treated with different kinds of drugs because they act differently.

The anxious and psychopathic love a drink; the depressed and narcissistic love paychostimulants; and the angry and depressed love opiates.

 

[Listening]

I see recreational substance misuse as different to substance addiction or substance dependence. The latter two are almost always a product of the user attempting self-medication, whereas the former is typically not.

I think you're on to something and would love some elaboration here. I have wondered much, but concluded little, about the trick (?) we play when we decide that we're doing good to/for ourselves (self-medication) as opposed to "just" doing something because we like it.

 

[d1ahp]

I think you're on to something and would love some elaboration here. I have wondered much, but concluded little, about the trick (?) we play when we decide that we're doing good to/for ourselves (self-medication) as opposed to "just" doing something because we like it.

I think we find safety within a substance that we have never felt before. It might be unhealthy, but it feels safe. From that point on, you can convince yourself you're self medicating, and maybe you are. You like to feel safe, and it's the only safety you know. So, why wouldn't you do it? Learning new ways of achieving that safety is far too out of reach when the bag is right in front of you.

 

[Mike187]

After you have been in a methadone clinic for about 10 years you can no longer get that nice rush off heroin. And I use to think just like you (never cared for stims, always preferred opiates). In the past I had only ever sniffed coke and liked it ok but only every now and then. Then I discovered how much better it is to IV it. I'd smoke crack every now and then and enjoyed a nice bellringer but IV coke is a whole other level. I prefer it over the rush I used to get from dope. I will still do a shot of dope about once or twice a day but only to come down off the white.

As much as I love it I will never condone or recommend it. Once I start I usually can't stop until it's gone and even then still want more. My arms look like shit because it's a much shorter high then dope so I'm usually doing a shot every 30-60 min (I try to wait at least an hour) and I'm making excuses for wearing long sleeves in 90 degree weather. And I have a hard time getting out of bed in the morning now without a shot of white. It's definitely a love/hate relationship.

 

[d1ahp]

I was on Methadone for a couple of months and I couldn't feel any other opiates on it. I started doing other drugs to get buzzed, mainly coke and benzos. Every so often I'd go on crack binges. I don't even want to think about how much money I spent on those binges. Being on Methadone directly or indirectly turned me into an awful human being. I don't think there ever was a time when I hated myself more than when I fell into the Methadone slump. Go dose, score some benzos and then nod all day. Wake up, scheme my way into some money and stay up all night until it's time to dose again. I'm surprised I'm not dead.

 

[SexyTweakerBitch]

I'm like the complete opposite of the OP. I love stimulants but opiates never did much for me unless I needed them for pain and stuck in bed all day, I would never just do them for fun. The opiates I've tried were vicodin, oxycodone, codiene, percocet, and oxycontin and they were all kinda boring IMO maybe because I'm a hyper person naturally and I like to move and talk a lot lol. When it comes to stims, I don't care much for powder coke because sometimes it makes me really paranoid, the high is way too short, the comedown always gives me a horrible headache, and I hate how it fucks up my nose the next day. Crack is fun and I love the rush but the high in general is waaayy too short and I feel teased after it starts waring off. Adderall and other ADHD pharm pills aren't strong enough for me but I'll do them if I'm desperate. MDMA and E is hella fun, especially the pure white powder Molly and for some reason not addictive at all. I used to party with it like every weekend years ago but now it's really hard to find in my town. When I first smoked Crystal, I got hooked instantly because it was the most amazing feeling ever, and I love how long the high lasts. I can't imagine anything being more addictive to me than smoking meth and the whole ritual of blazin the glass dick and blowing huge thick clouds of smoke is super fun. I love feeling the euphoric heart pounding rush as soon as I exhale. Sometimes if it's hella bomb shit my p***y gets really wet right after I take a hit lol. Also, where I live, meth is pretty much everywhere and it's so easy to find super high quality clear shards. My bad if my post is long, I'm on a good one right now

 

[speedballs_over]

yes the stepping stones of opiates , first step Codiene "ah this feels nice" second step the codones, "Holy Shit this feels incredible", Third step Morphine "Hooray what a rush this shit is the bomb", fourth step H OMG! Flying High, HIGH" now the other steps seem duller, now what etc... if you can stop at one step and be satisfied stop there. Same goes with Stims

Best advice I've read in months.

DdP: "Why do I feel nothing but nausea and vertigo when I pop oxycodone or inject heroin, yet other people seem to think opioids are more pleasurable than sex itself?"

Are you taking too much? Ahh, forget it. Just decide they aren't for you. Best idea.

 

[speedballs_over]

I was on Methadone for a couple of months and I couldn't feel any other opiates on it. I started doing other drugs to get buzzed, mainly coke and benzos. Every so often I'd go on crack binges. I don't even want to think about how much money I spent on those binges. Being on Methadone directly or indirectly turned me into an awful human being. I don't think there ever was a time when I hated myself more than when I fell into the Methadone slump. Go dose, score some benzos and then nod all day. Wake up, scheme my way into some money and stay up all night until it's time to dose again. I'm surprised I'm not dead.

Indeed methadone doesn't work for everyone, nor does any mode of treatment / maintenance. I wonder, did you enter treatment (MMT) before you were genuinely ready to give up all non-prescribed meds, even those you talked your Dr into prescribing, if that's the case? I'm not trying to criticize. I've done it. I'm just trying to understand more about why methadone failed for you. Were there too many sharks at the clinic? That's too common.

I hope you're better now.

 

[Mad Dash]

I feel you brother, opiates are like a fucking war zone. When you first get there you are ready to kick some ass, then you get your first taste of combat and it is a fucking rush teetering between life and death not knowing if a random bullet is going to hit you on the way to cover. Then you tell all your buddies about it and for a while you are a hero. Then it happens again, and again, and again, this time friends are dying, and you are feeling the soul crushing weight of it all on your chest, and you finally get out of it, and you come back home. It is all different, nothing feels the same. You have lost a part of you (this part being the sobriety) you have to start over again, deal with psychiatrists, family, probably end up in a divorce like me and about 80% of my unit did after coming home, because our wives couldn't deal with the new people we had become, not that we much liked it anyways.

The point of this analogy is to say that I feel in a very real way that people that have fought the war that is opiate addiction suffer from PTSD, I know because I felt the same feelings after both events were over, lost the same things, lost the same parts of my soul...

 

[falsifiedhypothesi]

I did I very brief skim and all I saw was the romanticism of opiates. I get it but even you said it wasn't good, it all seems like a bit of mental masterbation. It seems like the more I think about opiates the more their effects diminish.

 

[pbuilder]

Yes those opiates sure are addictive. The odd thing though is I never really found h that pleasurable or euphoric. And I've tried tons of different shit, some very high quality. Yet I still chased that rush like a fiend. The rush was great ill admit, but that needle destroys lives, had to put it down.

Now in just a shmuck taking 5 grams of kratom twice a day to get by and be "sober".

 

[BritishLad]

I took 5mg oxy IR once, felt nice and good. Took another 5mg oxy IR next day, just sitting on a bench people watching in a chilled out state. But for me, I don't see the attraction but I've never had a true opium high.