A question about vegan ethics and oral sex

[fallingup]

[edited quote]

OMG I WANT IT ALL

 

[Amebix]

That happens at so few farms it isn't even funny. I know people who own dairy farms. I've seen it myself. It's a really humane process. It's funny how all you are like "I cant like take this shit that the gov't and society are like forcing down our throats mannnn" but you believe this bullshit in a second and call to arms.

According to the Worldwatch Institute, 74 percent of the world's poultry, 43 percent of beef, and 68 percent of eggs are produced this way [factory farming].

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Factory_farm#Scale

 

[otb01]

Yes, but factory farming, in most cases, is not as bad as depicted. I didn't say only 10% is factory farming, I said 10% is only as described. I have seen a factory farm and it is NOT like that.

 

[thunderinacircle]

^ I'm a meat-lovin' S.O.B., but give me a break. Factory farms are horrid. Maybe to your eye they don't seem so bad, but if that is the case I have to think your knowledge of the situation as a whole is extremely lacking.

Let us take cattle for instance;

Cattle have evolved many thousands of years as a grazing animal that has fed solely on various grasses for its food. On a factory farm or feedlot, cows are almost exclusively fed corn. Cows are fed corn because it makes them grow fastest and our government more or less forces most farmers into planting it. The government gives the best subsidies to the farmers who plant corn. They're forced to pay top dollar for the most productive strains of corn each year which will eventually produce the highest yields (bushels per acre, generally speaking). Essentially, the farmer gets the most corn out of the smallest space, but they make almost zero money out of it because there is such a large supply. But this is what the government wants. If they can keep the cost of corn down by having a major surplus of it, they can also keep down the cost of raising animal like cattle as fast as bovinely possible. Furthermore, if you were to examine the food labels on any processed foods you may eat, you'd find that corn is literally in well over 75% of the things most people eat. You just have to know all the sneaky terms to look for.

Getting back to cows. Cows are fed corn because it makes them grow substantially faster than grasses. The average life of a cow on a factory farm is only 150 days!! All the corn that these cows are fed wreaks havoc on them. Cows have a rumen and the pH in their stomachs in supposed to be neutral. Humans have acidic stomachs and we can handle corn, but it gives cows acidosis. This leads to diarhhea, ulcers, bloating, rumenitis, liver disease, and a general weakening of their immune system. Over 40% of feedlot cattle have abcessed livers at the time of slaughter from the acids dissolving their rumen wall.

The only thing that can possible keep these cattle alive is heavy does of antibiotics. The vast majority of antibiotics in the United States go to animal feed. The drugs are for the sick animals, however these animals would not be sick in the first place if it weren't for all the corn they were being fed. This is rapidly leading to the development of drug resistant forms of human killing organisms like E. coli. E coli typically lived in the pH neutral rumen of a cow, but since cow's stomachs are now nearly as acidic as our own e. coli has devleoped a resistance to the acidity and is now ready, more than ever, to kill us. (the acidity in our stomachs is what will usually kill of any of it that makes it into our food)

I could go on forever and ever about this. I could talk about how just because cows aren't fed other cows anymore, (lead to mad cow disease) it does not mean that they don't feed chickens to chickens still, for instance. Then there is the hypocrisy of the organic food trend in this country. Just how big of a joke is the term 'free range chicken?' Is there a bigger oxymoron than the term 'industrial organic?'

/end rant, sorry !

 

[tathra]

if breast milk and semen are fine with vegans, how is it possible that dairy products arent? thats the most hypocritical idea i've heard in a long fucking time.

 

[otb01]

^ I'm a meat-lovin' S.O.B., but give me a break. Factory farms are horrid. Maybe to your eye they don't seem so bad, but if that is the case I have to think your knowledge of the situation as a whole is extremely lacking.

Let us take cattle for instance;

Cattle have evolved many thousands of years as a grazing animal that has fed solely on various grasses for its food. On a factory farm or feedlot, cows are almost exclusively fed corn. Cows are fed corn because it makes them grow fastest and our government more or less forces most farmers into planting it. The government gives the best subsidies to the farmers who plant corn. They're forced to pay top dollar for the most productive strains of corn each year which will eventually produce the highest yields (bushels per acre, generally speaking). Essentially, the farmer gets the most corn out of the smallest space, but they make almost zero money out of it because there is such a large supply. But this is what the government wants. If they can keep the cost of corn down by having a major surplus of it, they can also keep down the cost of raising animal like cattle as fast as bovinely possible. Furthermore, if you were to examine the food labels on any processed foods you may eat, you'd find that corn is literally in well over 75% of the things most people eat. You just have to know all the sneaky terms to look for.

Getting back to cows. Cows are fed corn because it makes them grow substantially faster than grasses. The average life of a cow on a factory farm is only 150 days!! All the corn that these cows are fed wreaks havoc on them. Cows have a rumen and the pH in their stomachs in supposed to be neutral. Humans have acidic stomachs and we can handle corn, but it gives cows acidosis. This leads to diarhhea, ulcers, bloating, rumenitis, liver disease, and a general weakening of their immune system. Over 40% of feedlot cattle have abcessed livers at the time of slaughter from the acids dissolving their rumen wall.

The only thing that can possible keep these cattle alive is heavy does of antibiotics. The vast majority of antibiotics in the United States go to animal feed. The drugs are for the sick animals, however these animals would not be sick in the first place if it weren't for all the corn they were being fed. This is rapidly leading to the development of drug resistant forms of human killing organisms like E. coli. E coli typically lived in the pH neutral rumen of a cow, but since cow's stomachs are now nearly as acidic as our own e. coli has devleoped a resistance to the acidity and is now ready, more than ever, to kill us. (the acidity in our stomachs is what will usually kill of any of it that makes it into our food)

I could go on forever and ever about this. I could talk about how just because cows aren't fed other cows anymore, (lead to mad cow disease) it does not mean that they don't feed chickens to chickens still, for instance. Then there is the hypocrisy of the organic food trend in this country. Just how big of a joke is the term 'free range chicken?' Is there a bigger oxymoron than the term 'industrial organic?'

/end rant, sorry !

Yes but I have been to factory farms where it is not like this. Honestly, I know people who own and know lots of people that own factory farms and I can tell you first hand that stuff described in that article is not happening often at all. It is a very humane process, matter of fact.

 

[better]

if breast milk and semen are fine with vegans, how is it possible that dairy products arent? thats the most hypocritical idea i've heard in a long fucking time.

my thoughts exactly.

 

[Max Power]

Perhaps because the milk is coming from one human to another? A consenting mother choosing to feed her child and giving from her own to her own.

I'm just playing devil's advocate.

A stoned devil's advocate.

Fuck vegans!

 

[ChemicalSmiles]

I thought this was about cum swallowing vegans, not milk. WTF happened.

 

[ginisfluff]

You NEED to milk cows or they hurt.

Well yes but this is because cows have been bred to produce far more milk than is natural. Plus cows only produce milk when they are kept in a constant breeding cycle.

That and you always provide for the calf first or the milk doesn't start going.

Calfs get taken away from thier mothers at birth. The milk will start flowing whether it is suckled by a calf or a milking machine.

On top of this still is the fact that cows have one child, 4 nipples and much more milk than is needed for one calf.

Again, they only produce so much milk because we have bred them to and do you really beleive that calves in factory farms are left with thier mothers? Fraid not! They are whisked off at birth, articially fed and then slaughtered as soon possible.

Yes in an ideal world, where the cows run free and are allowed to keep thier calves until they have been weaned off and only the excess milk is taken, then no, milk products are not cruel...but in the milk hungry world we live in, it is impossible to produce enough milk in this way.

You may have guessed I am vegan myself. I was previously vegetarian and I never realised how cruel the milk industry is. It was also pointed out to be that being a veggie that drinks milk, is actually a bit hypocritical as you are still supporting the meat industry (milking cows have to be kept in a constant cycle of pregancy and lactation and the result is lots of slaughtered calves).

I say I am vegan but most vegans would probably linch me for most of my views.
I don't think it is cruel to eat animals. We are supposed to kill and eat animals, but I feel it should be done in a much nicer, cruelty free way. Hence on the odd occasion I will eat proper free-range meat or wild meat.
I also strongly beleive we do not need to eat the vast amounts of meat most people do, once or twice a week is enough. Then all our meat could be produced ethically and cruelty free.

I also don't have an issue eating eggs, as long as they are truly free-range. My parents have chickens and they are happy little things, so I see no cruelty issues in eating thier eggs which would just rott if we left them.

Again I don't have a problem with fish, again as long as its not farmed fish and is ethically caught.

So no I am not a mad hippy who beleives that animals should not be eaten or thier products 'stolen'. I just beleive that the way we consume animal products these days is excessive and creates a unethical and horrible cruel factory farming market.

You would be amazed at how many people beleive that cows just produce milk and don't need to be kept in a pregnant/lactation cycle. DUH

Oh and no I don't have a problem with semen or sucking my BF's cock (who isn't actually vegan....so I guess I may be unknowingly getting some milk protiens )

 

[otb01]

Well yes but this is because cows have been bred to produce far more milk than is natural. Plus cows only produce milk when they are kept in a constant breeding cycle.

Cows have always done that regardless of breeding. You can go to farming villages in 3rd world countries without any special techniques and their cows produce an abundance of milk. That's how it's always been.

Calfs get taken away from thier mothers at birth. The milk will start flowing whether it is suckled by a calf or a milking machine.

Sorry, I'm someone who has actually been to said farms, the calf is a strong factor. Cows are reluctant to release milk otherwise.

Again, they only produce so much milk because we have bred them to and do you really beleive that calves in factory farms are left with thier mothers? Fraid not! They are whisked off at birth, articially fed and then slaughtered as soon possible.

And?

Yes in an ideal world, where the cows run free and are allowed to keep thier calves until they have been weaned off and only the excess milk is taken, then no, milk products are not cruel...but in the milk hungry world we live in, it is impossible to produce enough milk in this way.

I really don't see what's so "inhumane" about not doing this. 8). Factory farms really aren't as bad as you think. Once again, I have actually BEEN to them.

You may have guessed I am vegan myself. I was previously vegetarian and I never realised how cruel the milk industry is. It was also pointed out to be that being a veggie that drinks milk, is actually a bit hypocritical as you are still supporting the meat industry (milking cows have to be kept in a constant cycle of pregancy and lactation and the result is lots of slaughtered calves).

Yeah, and I've also realized that you're probably in your early 20s and also think the government is behind 9/11. The problem is that most of your age group is way too gullible.

I don't think it is cruel to eat animals. We are supposed to kill and eat animals, but I feel it should be done in a much nicer, cruelty free way. Hence on the odd occasion I will eat proper free-range meat or wild meat.

I am a Jain and I agree with you. People are supposed to eat meat, just not some people (including myself).

I also don't have an issue eating eggs, as long as they are truly free-range. My parents have chickens and they are happy little things, so I see no cruelty
issues in eating thier eggs which would just rott if we left them.

Even though eggs are created by intentionally preventing the birth of chics. 8) They do this by purposely separating the males and females. Sound familiar to another argument you've made? 8)

Again I don't have a problem with fish, again as long as its not farmed fish and is ethically caught.

All fish are harmed idiot. There's no "ethical" way to suffocate something to death after either forcing it into a net or having a hook in its mouth. There is no "ethical" way to catch fish!

 

[Tryptamine*Dreamer]

if breast milk and semen are fine with vegans, how is it possible that dairy products arent? thats the most hypocritical idea i've heard in a long fucking time.

The difference should be obvious.
Drinking semen or human breast milk does no harm to unwilling participants unless one of those involved have their semen or milk extracted against their will.

Dairy cows did not choose to have their milk extracted and are at least in some cases abused. In addition to that, there is no use for male calves at a dairy. Most of them will be killed. Dairy cows are also killed when they are no longer useful.

Most vegans are against consumption of dairy products because animals are harmed in the process. Many or most vegans would have no problem with consuming dairy products if they could be obtained with no harm whatsoever to any animals.

 

[The_Idler]

Again I don't have a problem with fish, again as long as its not farmed fish and is ethically caught.

Yeah, I'm sure you, too, would much rather be killed by being hoisted up into the air by a large spike of metal through your face, and then left to suffocate slowly,
than by having a bolt through your head.

 

[Jamshyd]

People! Let's stay on topic! Any more cock-sucking vegans wanna chime in?

My partner is a vegan. He has never swallowed semen

lmao.

 

[LoveAlways]

I know this one vegan chick-actually she's a "raw foodist" i believe who wont even have any kind of sex period with anyone that eats meat

i dont get it

 

[KiwiQflyer]

Seriously, this is just one of those stupid questions people ask to try and "stump the vegan." So annoying. I don't know of any vegan, myself included, who thinks oral sex is a nonvegan act, as long as it's with a consenting parnter (obviously a human partner, not a cow).

Comparing giving a BJ to eating a factory-farm-raised steak is ridiculous.