Study: High Testosterone Makes Men More Honest

[CFC]

AAS taking bodybuilders often get a bad rap. Steroids are blamed for all kinds of negative psychological effects, from notorious 'roid rage' pleas in legal cases and increased aggression, to reduced empathy.

So it's nice to read something that says otherwise. This study from a few years ago points to some prosocial benefits of higher testosterone levels in men, especially in terms of honesty.

The assumption the researchers made is that high testosterone is linked to pride and status, and proud people are less likely to lie.

However others have argued that high testosterone, in mimicking the 'alpha male' condition, makes men less psychologically insecure, more relaxed, and less worried about the opinions of others or requiring their validation - basically the opposite of the Napoleon syndrome. Hence a tendency towards honesty even when a lie could improve outcomes.

Ergolog has a decent summary of the article here with some graphs.

 

[Mighty-oak]

Really interesting and informative.....Great thread and links, thank you

I am so interested in the benefits of Testosterone for the mind.....Some have said Testosterone works wonders for anxiety/social panic, whilst others have said it makes anxiety worse, so much conflicting info on this study.

 

[CFC]

Really interesting and informative.....Great thread and links, thank you

I am so interested in the benefits of Testosterone for the mind.....Some have said Testosterone works wonders for anxiety/social panic, whilst others have said it makes anxiety worse, so much conflicting info on this study.

You do see both outcomes in guys using AAS - some chill, some get utterly wired.

The ambivalence may be related both to dose and the specific compound used. Powerful androgens like tren act as CNS stimulants and are unlikely to help if you have a pre-existing anxiety issue, though they may not cause those issues in guys who are already pretty sorted.

However a moderate dose (TRT and upwards) of plain old testosterone in test-deficient and/or aging men typically has an anxiolytic effect.

 

[Mighty-oak]

You do see both outcomes in guys using AAS - some chill, some get utterly wired.

The ambivalence may be related both to dose and the specific compound used. Powerful androgens like tren act as CNS stimulants and are unlikely to help if you have a pre-existing anxiety issue, though they may not cause those issues in guys who are already pretty sorted.

However a moderate dose (TRT and upwards) of plain old testosterone in test-deficient and/or aging men typically has an anxiolytic effect.

Very interesting

I was born with both testicles in my stomach and they had to operate on me when I was 6 to put them in the testicle sack. Always had a seriously high sex drive from about 12 till 25. When I was 25 they put me on an SSRI and Valium for chronic anxiety......It was then my sex drive lowered in a big way. Now I am anxious all the time and am 41, still on the SSRI called Celexa and on 2 benzos, Klonopin and Valium, sex drive has gone, lost confidence and anxiety is crazy high, cant even go in to a shop or drive 2 miles from home. Had my Test levels checked and they came back at 258 so on the low side. I did 50mg of Prop' last year and felt increased anxiety the next day which was a shame, but sex drive came back a bit.....Wonder if Prop due to its fast actions was not the best choice, maybe should have gone with Cyp' or Enth'?

 

[CFC]

It's unsurprising with those meds in you that you have no sex drive! There are other antidepressant options that don't have those sexual side effects (eg bupropion, mirtazapine etc).

And simple adrenaline blockers (like the beta-blocker propranolol) may have a lessening effect on anxiety without you necessarily having to take benzos. Ever explored any of those options with your specialist?

 

[Mighty-oak]

It's unsurprising with those meds in you that you have no sex drive! There are other antidepressant options that don't have those sexual side effects (eg bupropion, mirtazapine etc).

And simple adrenaline blockers (like the beta-blocker propranolol) may have a lessening effect on anxiety without you necessarily having to take benzos. Ever explored any of those options with your specialist?

He has not mentioned a beta-blocker. He tried me on Pregabalin, I was like a zombie on that! Some people seem to like the feeling of being 'out of it' kind of spaced out in front of the tv.....I am more one of these guys that likes to be in control, thats what scares me about my anxiety, loosing control and making a fool of myself. Dbol was good in the past, although I just stopped my Valium at 10mg a day to go on it as at the time I never knew if they could both be taken together! Felt a lot of energy, almost like a mild dose of speed, I grew like a tree off that, but anxiety was getting worse and worse, maybe because I suddenly stopped the Valium after many years of being on it rather the the Dbol itself? Trouble these days is getting proper Dbol, mostly all fakes

 

[m314]

Testosterone always gave me an "alpha male" feeling, from the first time I tried test boosters in my early 30s. I've been on test year round since 2008, when I was 33. Testosterone has been one of the best decisions of my life. I'll have high testosterone for the rest of my life instead of having to accept lower testosterone levels and a lower quality of life as I get older.

I could see how it would make men more honest. High test levels motivate men to accomplish things in life. Pride and status come from accomplishments. Pride and status take away any motivation to lie or try to be someone you're not.

 

[m314]

You do see both outcomes in guys using AAS - some chill, some get utterly wired.

The ambivalence may be related both to dose and the specific compound used. Powerful androgens like tren act as CNS stimulants and are unlikely to help if you have a pre-existing anxiety issue, though they may not cause those issues in guys who are already pretty sorted.

However a moderate dose (TRT and upwards) of plain old testosterone in test-deficient and/or aging men typically has an anxiolytic effect.

Tren is a different subject. Tren made me into a complete asshole with my friends and family members, maybe partly from the sleep deprivation. I couldn't sleep on it at all. Testosterone has been a 100% positive influence in my life. Tren turned out to be mostly negative other than the body recomposition and strength effects.

 

[InterestingFACT]

Androgen receptors are heavily co-located with dopaminergic neurons in the limbic system and elsewhere in the brain.

I think I remember reading on mindandmuscle or some other site about an idiot who was actually snorting small doses of dianabol (like 5-7mg) for its CNS effects--he described it as acting a lot like cocaine or amphetamine in providing immediate focus, confidence, and even euphoria.

Obviously the guy was an idiot--I got the distinct impression that he was bipolar or manic depressive, and was in a manic phase--and was throwing his HPTA axis out of whack for no good reason at all. But I absolutely believe that the effects he described are plausible for the manner in which he used the drug. Bottom line--androgens likely increase perceived social status in a comparable manner, and as such decrease the intrinsic motivations to lie (ie. to attain validation/reaffirm social victory status, or to avoid social defeat status).

Of course stimulants can cause anxiety, paranoia, psychosis, and all that jazz, as well. It depends on the person, and also on the extent/frequency of use.

 

[Mighty-oak]

Very interesting. So Dbol acts as a CNS stimulant, if thats the case it must be very poor for anxiety benefits due to the CNS needing to be suppressed in anxious folk? I read that Testosterone can decrease cortisol activity which would prove positive in stressful situations due to cortisol being the stress hormone, dampen the stress hormone and a stressful situation would be more manageable?

 

[madaboom]

That's really interesting, I too have heard the positive effects of testosterone on honesty, alpha male like behavior and a decrease in anxiety.

 

[Intense]

Interesting.

In my experience if half of my friends and other guys I know that get "roid rage" or "juiced up" when on 500mg of testosterone (lol) were to be administered the dose without them knowing then I could see it greatly benefiting them mentally. But the idea of being on gear psychologically makes some of them act retarded.

I'll even admit I was guilty of it in the beginning, but most guys do with all the steroid hate propaganda out there. Now while on 200mg of test and 100mg/week of tren I'm as chill as a cucumber. And handle most situations in stride, overall just a happier more level headed person.

 

[CFC]

I think you're right that attitude can be crucial. A lot of guys start taking AAS because they feel insecure and wanting to be 'alpha-like' in the first place. Over time, and with them actually becoming pretty big, much of that insecurity probably fades and the initial childish attitude dies with it.

 

[Intense]

I think you're right that attitude can be crucial. A lot of guys start taking AAS because they feel insecure and wanting to be 'alpha-like' in the first place. Over time, and with them actually becoming pretty big, much of that insecurity probably fades and the initial childish attitude dies with it.

I know for me it was partially due to insecurities and I had some buddies with just great genetics naturally that made me discouraged, not saying I have bad genetics but when someone can gain off cheetohs and kool aid and I'm cramming in 5-7 meals a day of pretty clean food it's a little discouraging and make's one more inclined to get on gear. Now not so much, pretty content where I'm at.

 

[ritch]

Very interesting. So Dbol acts as a CNS stimulant, if thats the case it must be very poor for anxiety benefits due to the CNS needing to be suppressed in anxious folk? I read that Testosterone can decrease cortisol activity which would prove positive in stressful situations due to cortisol being the stress hormone, dampen the stress hormone and a stressful situation would be more manageable?

Not at all!!! Dbal increases dopamine production so ya feel rather good on it.

 

[Rossak]

I think you're right that attitude can be crucial. A lot of guys start taking AAS because they feel insecure and wanting to be 'alpha-like' in the first place. Over time, and with them actually becoming pretty big, much of that insecurity probably fades and the initial childish attitude dies with it.

Nice post CFC, I've only read a few but I enjoyed what you've shared thus far.

I wouldn't be surprised at all by the findings of this and it leads me to something I've pondered quite a bit. I see both sides of the spectrum. Are we just mimicking the "end product" of biology? I would certainly never judge one for wanting to arrive at that destination but I do think that the logic of "being honest when a lie could improve outcomes" is solid. FWIW I'm not promoting dishonest behavior and I suppose one could argue that altering ourselves is being HONEST with the self. I personally like "going upstairs" and seeing the "updated" versions of things and then attempting to download it into my neuro chemistry. I've never found myself particularly aesthetically inadequate even though I'm sure I'm no model...lol. But I suppose it's no different than altering the outside and I suppose that in doing so, the inside changes, and perhaps vice versa. Just a small rant, I suppose.

 

[CFC]

Nice post CFC, I've only read a few but I enjoyed what you've shared thus far.

I wouldn't be surprised at all by the findings of this and it leads me to something I've pondered quite a bit. I see both sides of the spectrum. Are we just mimicking the "end product" of biology? I would certainly never judge one for wanting to arrive at that destination but I do think that the logic of "being honest when a lie could improve outcomes" is solid. FWIW I'm not promoting dishonest behavior and I suppose one could argue that altering ourselves is being HONEST with the self. I personally like "going upstairs" and seeing the "updated" versions of things and then attempting to download it into my neuro chemistry. I've never found myself particularly aesthetically inadequate even though I'm sure I'm no model...lol. But I suppose it's no different than altering the outside and I suppose that in doing so, the inside changes, and perhaps vice versa. Just a small rant, I suppose.

I think the mimicry concept is a valid idea. Humans seem to have evolved an inbuilt tendency to respect, trust and value big muscular (and tall) men. Presumably because to have made it to that point, they've proven they're thriving, healthy and well-fed, with a successful life strategy - one of life's 'winners'.

Powerful muscles can thus be indicative of an inner capability, and that's something others may automatically respect for authority or guidance and support - and to lead. All the characteristics of an 'alpha male' you might say.

However, with mimicry you're essentially arguing that you can achieve the same external appearance of being a 'winner' without actually having been tested and fought to prove your capability. You can take steroids and lift in a gym and eat well from a supermarket. You don't have to go out and hunt or fight to the death for your food or your position. The rest of society, welfare systems, etc all step in to help.

So our big alpha male might now be nothing more than a 'fake' winner. A paper tiger. Possibly the last person you'd really want to lead. But it's probably not that simple.

Being big and powerful brings with it a set of extra responsibilities. Whether justified or not, people will still tend to defer or look up to them as capable and as leaders just from their appearance. So there is actually a societal expectation for them to conform to these qualities, and to become the responsible, capable, emotionally measured alpha male they are assumed to be. And societal pressures can be extremely pervasive and encompassing, as we all know from even a basic glance at advertising, fashion, music, film etc.

Obviously this is a monumentally crude characterisation of the psychology, and doesn't apply to many men, but still you can see how by altering your physical or hormonal profile to superficially reflect another type of person (mimicry), that actually has the potential to modify your sense of responsibility, personality and behaviour and make it a reality.

(PS apologies for the pseudoscience guys )

 

[Foreigner]

This might be an ignorant question, but why not just take a precursor like DHEA? If your body is lacking testosterone as a reason for anxiety, then wouldn't a precursor give your body what it needs to "fill the gap" in a more balanced way, rather than taking a test level that's higher than necessary?

 

[Rossak]

So our big alpha male might now be nothing more than a 'fake' winner. A paper tiger. Possibly the last person you'd really want to lead. But it's probably not that simple.

Being big and powerful brings with it a set of extra responsibilities. Whether justified or not, people will still tend to defer or look up to them as capable and as leaders just from their appearance. So there is actually a societal expectation for them to conform to these qualities, and to become the responsible, capable, emotionally measured alpha male they are assumed to be. And societal pressures can be extremely pervasive and encompassing, as we all know from even a basic glance at advertising, fashion, music, film etc.

Love it. Excellent response, truly stimulated my thoughts, especially that part.

 

[CFC]

This might be an ignorant question, but why not just take a precursor like DHEA? If your body is lacking testosterone as a reason for anxiety, then wouldn't a precursor give your body what it needs to "fill the gap" in a more balanced way, rather than taking a test level that's higher than necessary?

You can try it - quite a lot of anti-ageing clinics use it as part of their treatment. Unfortunately being a precursor, there's no guarantee it will raise T levels or alter for example the T/E ratio sufficiently as that's handled by downstream conversion. It has been shown to have some positive physical and psychological effects in the elderly though.