Misc 6 months after joing BL, I've come full circle

[Slow_Mobius]

The title sums it all up quite well. When I first joined bluelight, I made a very similar post to this one.

Short version:

Can taking tramadol daily at therapeutic doses cause permanent side effects from the SNRI component after cessation? How long can PAWS (if any) last if you take it daily for a year?

Can taking dexedrine one full day at therapeutic doses with almost no history of amphetamine use cause lack of motivation/tiredness for days after use?

Can Lyrica WD make you feel tired (I would think it would make you feel on edge and anxious)? Can it cause seizures? Can you experience acute Zolpidem (ambien) WD after taking slightly one-time, ~15mg doses if you have had a prior dependency?

Thanks for any responses, and I applaud anyone who takes the time to read the long version


Super Long version:


First, I'm sorry to the bluelighters to whom I've been a dick (except Ho-Chi-Minh . I think the warning for abuse/trolling was unnecessary). That's a problem I've had lately, and I sincerely apologize. Anyways, I have a chronic pain issue that has been progressively getting worse and will continue to get worse. It's joint and muscular pain, and occasionally I'll get pinched nerves and shooting pains. I spent about a full year self medicating with cannabis while taking tramadol and ambien (zolpidem) for sleep. Seems to be a commonly prescribed regiment. I first joined bluelight about 6 months ago after successfully CTing everything to hopefully find something that would at least help me sleep through my pain since my previous regiment stopped working (big surprise with addictive substances). The suggestions definitely helped.


Kratom is 10x better than tramadol as a pain reliever and 10x less addictive to boot. I've been taking that pretty much daily with a couple short breaks. My doctor prescribed me lyrica, and I started out taking just 50 mg at night with zolpidem still when I really needed a good sleep. It slowly stopped working, and I worked my way up to two 50 mg doses in the evening and eventually had to take 150 mg over the course of the day just to not feel like shit. I fucking hate lyrica now. It worked wonders and knocked me out for the first couple months, but now I have to take it all day and it makes me feel completely unmotivated. I can drink energy drinks and coffee all day long and still feel like I'm on the verge of falling asleep since I've been taking lyrica throughout my day.


I tapered down from 150 mg/day of lyrica to about 100 mg no problem, but weird, weird shit has been happening since I've tried going lower. My WDs (at least i think WDs. I thought 150 mg would be extremely easy to come off of) have been paradoxical. Lyrica makes me feel tired, but when I don't take it, it's like I feel even more tired and crappy. I've been reading about Lyrica WD, and I didn't really find anything like this. I've also had lots of muscle twitches since yesterday night (about 24 hours ago for me). I've read GABA drug WDs can cause seizures, and I almost had my first panic attack when some muscles wouldn't stop twitching. And then again today, I felt like I was starting to have a panic attack out of nowhere, even after taking ~40mg of lyrica. Are these paradoxical WD symptoms typical? I also took zolpidem the night before nearly having the panic attacks, so could I have been experiencing some acute WD from the zolpidem along with the lyrica? I only take the Zolpidem about every 4 days, but I do have a prior dependence to it.

Other complicating factors: I took dexedrine several times over the last 6 months in doses ~5-10 mg/(6 hours) without any prior exposure to amphetamines. The last time was about 30 mg that I took over the course of about 36 hours (did sleep for 6 hours during that time with zolpidem). The last dose I took was about 2 mg 4.5 days ago. I definitely felt effects from it, though, until 3 days ago and I felt like crap for about another day after that. So could I still be rebounding from the dex? I've also taken tramadol at therapeutic doses for 2-day spans about 4-5 times in the past 6 months--the last time was almost 2 months ago though. Could I be experiencing PAWS from the SNRI effects of the tramadol?

I've had too many different drugs in my system, and I'm basically having trouble figuring out why I feel like shit all the time, and all the past problems of pain/sleeplessness are coming right back too. I've never felt like I've re-established the baselines that I had before starting to take the tramadol and zolpidem (little motivation, feeling tired all the time). Am I just permanently screwed by the SNRI effects from the tramadol? Self medicating with cannabis is out of the question now since I'll be starting my PhD (basically my dream accomplishment) in august and I'll be getting drug tested.

I've tried talking to my doctor for weeks but can't get a hold of him or see him. There's a chance I'll get in tomorrow, but I'm not holding my breathe at this point. I'm seriously sick of this feeling tired all the time bullshit and seems to just be getting worse no matter what I try doing. Taking less Lyrica makes it worse. Caffeine won't even touch it. I honestly would rather go back to being pretty much drug free, not sleeping, and getting through my day drinking coffee like its going out of style.

Thats my story. I was feeling pretty miserable when I first posted in BL, and now I'm back at square one with the same probs plus new ones. Thanks for any ideas/thoughts!

 

[Ignio]

First of, congratulation in regards to you starting your PhD. Actually, I am starting mine after summer too

I have to break your post down in small parts. I can't answer all your questions but I can come with inputs that I have gained from my own experience.

Withdrawals caused by Lyrica made me very sleepy. The only way I could stop being sleepy was to take my normal dosage of Lyrica or sleep all the time. That being said, as you say yourself, with so many different chemicals active in your body, the source of your tiredness can be hard to pinpoint. Lyrica mixed with tramadol made we very tired as well plus it influenced my memory in a negative way. I had to stop taking Lyrica all together dye to the side effects even though Lyrica really helped me. I have never tried Gabapentin which is similar to Pregabalin so I can't say whether that would be different. My point is, I experienced too many side effects from mixing Lyrica and tramadol so I stopped taking Lyrica all together. You might be reacting similar to me, so you in my perspective you will have to either wait and see whether some of the side effects of Lyrica stops with time or you how to stop taking it and find an alternative.

From what I can gather you are taking 1) Zolpidem, 2) Lyrica, 3) Tramadol, 4) Kratom and sometimes but not in the future 5) Cannabis and your pain will be getting worse so it seems impossible to make a plan where you will end up being drug free? Or what do you think yourself?
I myself prefer not to mix that many medications together at once as one don't know for sure which thing is causing what side effects. If I where you, I would be looking for one or two types of medication that could replace all the things you are taking now. It might be a slightly stronger pain-killer or it might be a benzodiazepine depending on your pain (that is, will a small amount of a benzodiazepine be able to make your pain manageable?) or something else entirely. It is impossible to find any causality between what you take and the undesired effects because you take so many different things. But this is obviously something you should be discussing with your doctor and it can't be right that you as a patient have to wait several weeks before getting hold of him? Press him harder or find a doctor that actually helps you. You have a few months to get this in place before you start your PhD and it takes a couple of weeks at least to get used to new medicine, so if you where to replace all the things you are taking now with one new thing it has to be soon.

That being said, I know close to nothing about your injury so I don't know if it is possible for you to make your pain tolerable with one medication. But my thought when I read your post was that due to the number of different things you take it is hard to see what causes what, thus if you could find one or two things that could treat you seems better. It doesn't seem that your current regimen functions anyway as you write that you are miserable. But I am not a doctor so you can hardly call me qualified to give suggestions. But one thing is sure, if you are feeling miserable at the moment, you have to get in touch with your doctor and find a solution where you are satisfied and your pain is tolerable.

 

[belfort]

Oh yeah u are in the same rut many of us are..u have 2-3 symptoms that bother u, medications help alleviate these but down the line make you basically feel numb or off..it's constantly a tradeoff and you never end up feeling good, im not talking about euphoria either..it a shitty situation and im there fighg now too..no easy answers though..im tired of medications too, the side effects and withdrawals but where would I be without them?

 

[belfort]

try exercising OP..u probably wont feel like doing it and neither do i but i force myself and it makes me feel better for a few hours..

Lyrica hits gaba and in my experience, every single drug or medication that targets the gaba receptors is going to make you tired in the long run!no way of getting around it as i and many others have tried..plus u are taking in Zolpidem too which also hits Gaba so its a double whammy..only way to know if its these medications is to get clean off them and just wait..its not the answer u wanted to hear but its true..

kratom can give you energy but can also cause dysphoria at higher doses..when i first started using it, i remember it took awhile before i could find the right dosage..

 

[Slow_Mobius]

Ignio: Congrats on starting your PhD as well! Grad school is no joke, and a real challenge is up next for both of us. Can I ask the area in which you'll be studying?

I think you're right about just having way too much stuff in my system. The tramadol I haven't been taking with any regularity the past few months, and it's the lyrica, zolpidem, and kratom that I'm taking frequently. After reading through what I wrote (sometimes it easier to asses situations after talking and/or typing everything out), I think the best thing to start doing now is cut it down to one or two meds like you suggested. Belfort, I used to do low rep weight lifting all the time but can't really do that stuff anymore. I'll try forcing myself to do some cardio twice a week... but we'll see if that really happens haha. I very quickly learned that less is more with kratom

I finally got in see my doctor today, and he wants me try upping my lyrica dosage to 75mg and taking it morning and night. I guess I'll give it a shot, but I'm more inclined to take a lower dose like 50mg in the morning and take the 75 mg pill at night. I just really hate how complacent the lyrica makes me more than anything else. Kills my motivation. It does help me sleep through the night though.

I think my best bet is to give the doc's suggestion a shot and try lyrica twice a day and kratom throughout since those two help significantly. Fortunately, he said I was fine to play with my lyrica dosage/frequency, so I'm pretty sure I can taper off now if I need to. I really think the near panic attacks stemmed from freaking about possibly having a seizure.

He also mentioned cymbalta (SNRI) as another option. I really hated the SNRI feeling from tramadol, but does anyone have experience with this drug for chronic pain?