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Bromo/fluro ketamine

M

MK-ULTRA-

Greenlighter
Joined
Oct 3, 2011
Messages
7
Has anyone ever heard of ketamine analogs with either bromine or fluorine replacing the chlorine, seams strange that such an obvouse tweek has not been tried, maybe it has and was ethier inactive, toxic or mearly unpleasent.
It would seem an easy way to side step the law, certainly in the uk which afaik has no analog style laws for ketamine such as the the one they have for trytamine and PEA.
I have not intresting in persoanlly trying these things cos dissiciative drugs are not really my bag but im suprised no one out there has thought of giving it a go.
 
Br-ketamine should be equiptent or stronger, I think fluoro-ketamine is probably closer to deschloro ketamine though. (not exactly desirable)

There are very few "ketamine analogs" proper, Br-ketamine and/or ethyl-ketamine are probably good starts. I think 2' halo substitution increases the anesthetic/slurring, drunken, "magical" effect due to more activity at ion channels, but that's a guess.
 
2-Fluoro-Deschloroketamine is available online for about the same price as deschloroketamine. It's equipment to ketamine so a good bit more potent than deschloroketamine. 2F-DCK is almost perfectly identical in effects to ketamine except for it takes a little bit longer to kick in than ketamine, the effects stick with you for longer, and it's more difficult to reach a "hole" state with the 2-fluoro varient than it is with deschloroketamine or your regular (s/r)-ketamine.

I quite like 2F-deschloroket. and I stumbled upon this thread by accident when I was researching whether anyone had used any other halogens in the place of the chloride group on ketamine. Does anyone know anything about these possibilities today? This thread is from 2012 and today RC's are much more popular and well known. Theoretically a 2-bromo-deschloroketamine could work, and I wonder about variants using iodine or astatine but I'm not familiar enough with the chemistry to know if any are feasible. Somebody somewhere needs to work on this stuff! Has anyone heard anything since this thread?
 
CNSninja said:
2-Fluoro-Deschloroketamine is available online for about the same price as deschloroketamine. It's equipment to ketamine so a good bit more potent than deschloroketamine. 2F-DCK is almost perfectly identical in effects to ketamine except for it takes a little bit longer to kick in than ketamine, the effects stick with you for longer, and it's more difficult to reach a "hole" state with the 2-fluoro varient than it is with deschloroketamine or your regular (s/r)-ketamine.

I quite like 2F-deschloroket. and I stumbled upon this thread by accident when I was researching whether anyone had used any other halogens in the place of the chloride group on ketamine. Does anyone know anything about these possibilities today? This thread is from 2012 and today RC's are much more popular and well known. Theoretically a 2-bromo-deschloroketamine could work, and I wonder about variants using iodine or astatine but I'm not familiar enough with the chemistry to know if any are feasible. Somebody somewhere needs to work on this stuff! Has anyone heard anything since this thread?
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2-At-Descchloro-Ketamine basically cannot be made because Astatine is so unstable that it is the rarest naturally occuring occuring element on earth (it only appears as a decay product in radioactive ores, and usually decays again within seconds); using particle accelerators you can make isotopes with a half-life of a few hours that show potential in the radiation therapy of cancers, but that's about it it.

2-Iodo-Ketamine hasn't been available either, though with that one I'm not exactly sure why.

However, a batch of 2-TriFluoro-Methyl-Ketamine has recently been made, but from what I understand it has so far been pretty much confined to the Swedish RC scene.
 
I don't recall were I read it, but bromo-ketamine is well known in research, and apparently it's less potent than 2-chloro. Since I can't find the source were I got it from, there is the caveat that it's just something I'm making up of cause. But if that is indeed the case, iodo would probably be even less active. It would make sense though, because when they invented ketamine, they made it starting from PCP, and then tried to make something that would be better as an anaesthetic for operations. I can't see how they wouldn't have tried 2-fluoro, bromo and iodo too, and then apparently finding 2-chloro best for what they needed it for. Of cause, that doesn't mean that iodo or bromo ketamine couldn't turn out as viable legal highs for the research chemical market, but I doubt they'll knock regular ketamine of it's throne. I personally found 2-fluoro-k to be lacking.

I wonder about 2-nitro-ketamine or 2-cyano-ketamine or maybe 2-fluoroethyl.

Hodor said:
However, a batch of 2-TriFluoro-Methyl-Ketamine has recently been made, but from what I understand it has so far been pretty much confined to the Swedish RC scene.
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Are you sure? I can't find any mention of that on the swedish forums. Maybe you are thinking of 2-flouro-ketamine, that one was indeed sold first from Sweden. I'm pretty sure 2-TFM-K never made it to the customers.
 
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Incunabula said:
I
Are you sure? I can't find any mention of that on the swedish forums. Maybe you are thinking of 2-flouro-ketamine, that one was indeed sold first from Sweden. I'm pretty sure 2-TFM-K never made it to the customers.
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Yeah, sorry. I looked at the thread from a few months ago. Apparently TFM-Ketamine was originally slated for a UK release before their blanket ban, but they weren't able to produce it in time. One poster mentioned seeing TFM-K on a Swedish vendor's site, but apparently he had in fact confused it with 2F-Ketamine.
 
Heh already got me thinking about the potential of nitro and cyano analogs. Hell why not thiocyano (rhodanide) or pentafluorosulfanyl?

Astatine, you wouldn't want it around, most isotopes have extremely short half-lives, the longest lived, 210At has a half life of just over 8 hours. And if you did get it inside someone, it would literally fry their brains. And to boot there would be destructive self-heating, plus autoradiolysis of the C-At bond. Plus due to the self-heating from the intense alpha radiation there is simply no chance in hell that one could actually keep a compound containing At in the weight ranges ket is active at in one place without frying it to a crisp.

I'd not be too happy about the idea of fluoroethylketamine. Or fluorinated even-numbered carbon chains generally, due to any possibility of fluoroacetate being a metabolite, ala some of those more fucked up bottom of the barrel cannabinoids. In fact fluoroethyl anything intended to go into me is something I'd avoid, personally on that principle. Fluoroeth-LAD is an exception due to the tiny quantities required for activity.
 
Which begs the question: what happens to 2C-EF and 2C-T-2? .. Anyway, the noids were thought to be alright as long as the alkyl chain has an uneven number, supposedly 2-carbon chunks are chomped off.
In case of K, 2-fluoroethyl seems a bit big to begin with? Fluoromethyl seems more like it..

Would you also make an exception for nitrogen mustard chloroalkyl-LAD? ;p
 
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Solipsis said:
In case of K, 2-fluoroethyl seems a bit big to begin with? Fluoromethyl seems more like it..
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Yes, fluoroethyl is probably too big. I don't know what I was thinking when I suggested that. Fluoromethyl? I thought that one was a no go, for some reason? Is it because it's not even numbered? Still, probably not that exciting a route to go anyway. But you never know, I guess :)
 
Oops sorry that should have been uneven, fixed it.. I don't know what would be wrong with fluoromethyl..
Should not be an alkylating agent like other terminal haloalkanes?
 
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I'm a bit confused about all this :) I actually always thought the problem with fluoromethyl was that it couldn't synthesized - or something like that. Otherwise difluoromethyl would be an obvious substituent too, also for tryptamines and phenylethylamines. And yeah, 2C-EF should be a no go, going by what Limpet says, but it isn't, I wonder why?
 
I've heard wonderful things about 2C-EF in fact. I'd love to try DOEF, a place I once knew had said they were looking into synthing it but I don't think it ever happened.
 
Incunabula said:
I'm a bit confused about all this :) I actually always thought the problem with fluoromethyl was that it couldn't synthesized - or something like that. Otherwise difluoromethyl would be an obvious substituent too, also for tryptamines and phenylethylamines. And yeah, 2C-EF should be a no go, going by what Limpet says, but it isn't, I wonder why?
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I don't think it is impossible to synth at all, benzyl fluoride is a thing and similar compounds can apparently be afforded by treating the corresponding alcohol (in the place of the F) with diethylaminosulfur trifluoride... I don't see why the ortho cyanobenzyl analogue would be a problem.. maybe there is a challenge I am not seeing but I doubt it's something insurmountable.

Would be sweet to see the 2C-X compound with that substitution also. If anyone knows why it's either hard to make or unsafe on ingest please share.
 
Solipsis said:
If anyone knows why it's either hard to make or unsafe on ingest please share.
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Yes, please do.

I've also really been wanting to try 2C-EF and 2C-TFM for years. When "the golden age of lysergamides and tryptamines" ends, hopefully someone will give the phenylethylamines some love =D
 
F&B synthed 2C-EF and wrote a report, it's somewhere in the TR forum from quite a number of years ago. If I recall he said it was amazing and wonderful.
 
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