(5-MeO-DiPT/5 mg smoked) - Second Time - Challenging Foxy Orthodoxy

[Kaleida]

The following Greek letters have been changed to protect the innocent. This trip report is written by Theta.

This was our second experience with 5-MeO-DiPT, and our first time smoking it. Our first time was 10 mg orally, which I greatly enjoyed; we concluded in the end that it seemed like there was a fairly even split in our alters who preferred 5-MeO-DiPT to 5-MeO-MiPT and vice-versa, myself being in the former group, and the comparison being part of why we were so interested to try it in the first place. We notably felt that there were significant similarities at the time between 5-MeO-MiPT and 5-MeO-DiPT that dwarfed those that either had to 5-MeO-EiPT also by oral administration, the only way we had used any of them at the time, though all three clearly shared some varying similarities with one another. In the time since that first 5-MeO-DiPT experience, we have now also smoked 5-MeO-MiPT and 5-MeO-EiPT in dosages including 5 and 10 mg for both and also 15 mg for the latter and had received very promising effects from both, yet we had still not attempted to use 5-MeO-DiPT by this route of administration, and we sought to rectify that situation with this first smoking attempt at 5 mg.

Our previous experience with psychedelics included DMT, MET, MPT, EPT, DPT, MiPT, DiPT, MALT, DALT, Psilocybe cubensis, 4-HO-MET, 4-HO-DET, 4-HO-MPT, 4-HO-EPT, 4-HO-DPT, 4-HO-MiPT, 4-HO-DiPT, 4-HO-McPT, 4-AcO-DMT, 4-AcO-MET, 4-AcO-DET, 4-AcO-MALT, 4-AcO-DALT, 5-HO-DMT, 5-MeO-MiPT, 5-MeO-EiPT, 5-MeO-DiPT, 5-MeO-DALT, 5-Cl-AMT, Ipomoea tricolor, Argyreia nervosa, LSD, ETH-LAD, AL-LAD, 1P-LSD, 2C-C, 2C-B, 2C-I, 2C-E, 2C-P, DOF, DOC, DOB, TMA-2, 4C-D, BOD, Myristica fragrans, and MDMA. Our most recent trip was on 10 mg of 5-Cl-AMT orally five days before this, and before that was two days earlier smoking 5 mg of 5-MeO-MiPT in the morning, neither of which we anticipated still having much psychedelic tolerance from at this point.

An important contextual note is that it's been a little over a month and a half now since the end of a phase we went through of frequently smoking many different tryptamines, mostly synthetic, up to a few times a week, over a two month period, essentially ending consequently to smoking the aforementioned 15 mg of 5-MeO-EiPT and having an extremely powerful and destabilizing experience that left us still in a heavy altered state for at least several days after dosing and took more than a few weeks to start feeling basically sober again, and has still taken and continues to take longer than that to more completely integrate back from into our regular life. We haven't tripped much yet since then and not in very high dosages of things when we have, but we have already noticed that, as we had expected coming out of that experience, when we do trip it currently seems quite easy to get back to or approach a place similar to where we were during that experience, the standard experience of the rabbit hole going ever deeper and us currently being a particularly sensitized state due to still having relatively recently come out of an unusually powerful trip. On top of that, we and I (Theta) in particular do seem to be somewhat sensitive to getting psychedelic effects from 5-methoxytryptamines compared to the average user too at least based on what we can determine from discussing it with and hearing or reading the anecdotes of others, so this is all to say, it seems plausible that my reaction right now or in general to substances like 5-MeO-DiPT such as I intend to describe here may be significantly more intense than the average person would have from using such a substance in such a way at such a dosage, but nonetheless, it's the experience I (and we) had and it was induced specifically by 5-MeO-DiPT, so I will assume for now that it is not outside the realm of possibility for others to experience similar things to myself here and in these kinds of cases too under the right circumstances and share my own experience as I usually would hoping that it will provide some insight for others, and if not, then at least some entertainment.

We woke up in the early morning, prepared our bowl of cannabis with the approximately 5 mg of 5-MeO-DiPT laced into it, poorly I might add but I think we did well enough with it, and prepared to spend the experience still rolling around in bed listening to music. We did not attempt to note the time or take notes for most of the experience as it was happening, so this trip will not contain time stamps the way most often include in these reports, but the part of the experience where things were still significantly changing didn't last very long overall. We smoked the laced bowl quickly over several hits with Pink Floyd's "Shine On You Crazy Diamond" starting to play, and then we get comfortable under the covers lying down in a meditative position with our eyes closed.

The first thing that I can recall happening was suddenly faintly but clearly seeing a design that looked sort of like a spider web lattice of straight, glowing white lines connecting various dots that I instinctively interpreted as different conscious entities connected by the lattice threads, for which I felt a term like "web of souls" might poetically fit though I wouldn't generally describe it quite like that, and when I acknowledged them internally, they acknowledged me in return. I remember this seemed intriguingly stable for a while, but I don't know how long it actually lasted and it probably wasn't long. At the time I felt very calm and was thinking about how noticeably smooth and easygoing this entry into the state was, as the 5 mg of 5-MeO-MiPT smoked the week prior had had a very emotionally powerful, rushing sensation sort of beginning to it, even if it was still a much more easygoing version of something similar that had been happening during the 15 mg of 5-MeO-EiPT experience.

As the state began to further develop, the faint visuals I was seeing still mostly internally and not too opaquely began to focus on myself, showing a body that I felt instinctively to be my own though the colors were muted to a grey-barely purple spectrum with mostly red auras, and my hair flipped up and began transforming into several snake-like reptile forms in a Medusa-like fashion, all slithering around with their own life and snapping at the surrounding environment. This was similar to some of the "demonic" imagery that occurred frequently for me during that powerful 5-MeO-EiPT experience, but this experience felt very playful and positive by comparison, and I watched amused as my snake hair grew and their bodies expanded further away from me in the out-of-body space I perceived around us, being delighted by the colors they left as even though their auras were mostly red, they were still quite a full spectrum in the lesser, more diversely colorful parts. The creatures that seemed more snake-like at first even began to resemble something closer to the typical Chinese-style design of dragons as they moved around, which also reminded me of a lower dosage smoked 5-MeO-EiPT experience we had, and in general the feeling I had at this point of the experience was that it did feel a lot like 5-MeO-EiPT so far, but with less of a classical psychedelic feeling, not limited to but including what would normally make the experience more emotionally challenging like the 5-MeO-EiPT was, but at the same time perhaps an even stronger and maybe more hallucinogenically developed, but still pretty similar dissociative feeling, and I was really enjoying the opportunity to dip back into a state that was superficially similar to that recently experienced one that had been so challenging but in a much more welcoming way instead.

At some point during all this the hallucinogenic style began to shift again, and my feeling is that it happened primarily in tandem with us starting to feel more of the physically euphoric effects of the experience, which comparable to oral dosing I did feel meaningfully exceeded that of both 5-MeO-MiPT and 5-MeO-EiPT. I began to see simplistic internal kaleidoscopic imagery of mostly the shading outlines of an indeterminate sexy man, in a way that also reminded me of something from the 5-MeO-EiPT experience but less threatening, but it did feel like they were approaching me on some level, but more instinctively than consciously because it wasn't that developed of a hallucination. Not long after this, I began to perceive the inner form the other alters see me as jumping towards a specific male alter, and though it was a transparent vision and felt somewhat third-person in that way, it also felt like I was perceiving it and controlling it instinctively from a first-person perspective. I just towards him and absorbed into him, and felt myself flowing throughout his body and merging with his spirit, seeing copies of this image of myself lined up in a repeating grid line formation releasing ecstatic poses through the merging process which accompanied the increasing feelings of the drug's euphoria. I recall the imagery started to go a little bit in a cosmic direction here where our bodies started becoming planets and there were stars around us, and that and all this actually reminds me a lot of imagery I've seen when we've smoked MET and MPT too, but this phase began to pass after this point.

Though we were somewhat too lost in the state to being that much attention, music was still playing and we were sometimes picking what would come on next from the YouTube related songs list, and next I entered a phase, one which I can relate somewhat to many psychedelics but particularly more directly to MiPT and 2C-C in my experience so far more than anything, where the music done by artists or with music videos I'm familiar with will begin to heavily construct the internal hallucinogenic experience, specifically in such a way that it's like a dream that is half a music video and half transforming psychedelic architecture, and I the "dreamer" am represented usually by the artist but sometimes by other people in the same scene as the artist, who I see and feel myself as, either singing and dancing along to the music or doing whatever else my identity in that scene is doing. Again, like the whole trip before and after it, this phase was incompletely opaque and I could still simultaneously feel us lying in bed, but the sensations were still quite vivid even at this level which we knew would be lighter going into it, and notably once again, many of the more blatantly psychedelic aspects of the internal imagery that was being generated around my internal perspective within it were similar to things I had seen during the heavy 5-MeO-EiPT experience, but were experienced in a way that I either found much less disturbing in the moment as it was happening or which were even profoundly positive.

For example, "Hallucinate" by Dua Lipa came on and I was fittingly hallucinating, though oddly the imagery I saw was actually more so matching to the music video for her song "Break My Heart" instead, and I was seeing and feeling it from her perspective and it was pretty normal within the first moments of it, but as it developed the physics of the internal world began to malfunction in some strange ways, and suddenly it seemed like (from her perspective) there were demonic entities surrounding me/her, and similar to what they would do to the inhabitants of the torturous "hellscapes" as we called them that from the 5-MeO-EiPT experience, they grabbed my/her body and pulled it in such a way that stretched and twisted it far up in a horribly disfigured way like they were painfully turning me/her into a Slinky, but the whole thing didn't bother me in the slightest and I just found it amusing as I kept internally grooving to the music, and as I did the background of the internal world began to transform into kaleidoscopic imagery of Dua Lipa's singing face as the vision pulled further away and ended. Another song that came on was "Dissolve" by Absofacto, which has a music video where the artist is in a pool surrounded by several synchronized swimmers, and when my internal space changed to match the setting of the music video, I flashed back to a phenomenon from the 5-MeO-EiPT where internal entities I interacted with would painfully break apart into multiple bodies simultaneously of a specific identity they would then go into an out-of-body experience as, internally screaming in pain as they did, but in this case I felt myself crack apart into all the different bodies of the synchronized swimmers simultaneously in a very peaceful and euphoric way, and for as long as the song played and the hallucinated music video was sustained in my internal space, I was able to control all of their bodies at the time and separately, getting better with practice, doing things like getting used to feeling every body sing the song at once, as the feeling was that vivid even though it was still only partially overlapping our normal perception of physical reality.

This phase was fun, but as the songs passed the experience continued to transform and we became less engaged in the music again and more lost in the inner sensations specifically, which continued to grow in intensity. I don't actually recall how the transition to this took place anymore, but at some point, I recall that in my inner vision I died and my body was rapidly used by some other lifeform, I don't recall how now, either I was eaten or decayed and eaten by bacteria or fertilized a plant or something, and the reason I don't recall exactly is because as this happened I was gone and my consciousness was transferred into the lifeform that has in some way absorbed me, and as quickly as my previous self has been destroyed this next one was destroyed and absorbed by something else in another one of those ways, and I continued to rapidly cycle through multiple other lifeforms, including another human at some point, I vaguely recall him being a grown man with a beard who of course still died shortly afterwards and was absorbed by something else, and as all of this was happening I actually still also had a tactile sensation sort of like I was "tumbling" through all of these transformations that I was still, albeit faintly, actually feeling happen to my body too. The sensation was again notably similar to one I had experienced repeatedly during the 15 mg of 5-MeO-EiPT experience, except in that experience it kept feeling like I was transforming into either my imagination or some sort of representation of our inner universe, where I could actually feel myself becoming the internal environment including the architecture as well as the entities living in it including all of the physiological goings-on inside each of their bodies, whereas the theme of this experience on the 5-MeO-DiPT obviously focused on a different sort of transpersonal stereotype, but importantly the feelings of transformation and progressive loss of self into the expansive experience were directly comparable, and as my experience of rapidly traveling through the various cycles of life dying to sustain other life on Earth progressed, it did indeed reach a point where it felt like I was becoming less a specific living thing on Earth and more life on Earth in general, moving on the standard experience of seeing a vision of the planet which then pulls further back out in the cosmos, though I believe it popped shortly after that without progressing any further beyond that point for this particular experience.

Perhaps the above is actually what led into this next part, but I can't actually recall that clearly now; what I do recall is that I entered a period of greater ego loss comparable to the state I was in for an extremely prolonged time following or smoking of the 15 mg of 5-MeO-EiPT, where I was losing track of my internal identity and beginning to see some visionary effects that I recognize as salvia-like personally, but the effect was still very subdued in comparison to that experience, and I was able to recognize it for what it is, and we all together worked through it quite rapidly and efficiently. It helped me to piece together some perspective I had still been attempting to more fully integrate from the 5-MeO-EiPT experience as well, and I came out of that phase feeling like I do now understand what happens to me in that state a lot better now and know how to better react to and handle it in the future as I did here, and it made me very optimistic for our future experimentations with these molecules as well as with other powerful psychedelics in general, even more so than I already normally felt of course. The other alters and I did our usual mantra internally to symbolize the bonding experience we had had, and I around this time I was writing at least a bit about the experience down in retrospect for later reference, and I noted that I was again getting faint kaleidoscopes of the sexy man from nearer to the beginning of this experience, and felt at that time that it might be symbolic of the peak of the experience starting to drop back down somewhat on the other side now, which I would say now it essentially seemed to be doing by about then, though there was still some time to go before it totally leveled out again.

Somewhere between an hour and ten to an hour and twenty minutes I think we got out of bed and decided to have a bowl of cereal, feeling incredibly hungry by then from the cannabis which we also smoked more of as we just kept piling more on the cashed bowl while lying in bed, and by somewhere around an hour and forty-five minutes in were getting in a nice, hot shower. It felt great as usual and as expected, and afterwards we also masturbated to an incredibly potentiated orgasm, honestly not the most notable one ever (which mainly seems worth noting given 5-MeO-DiPT's reputation) but probably one of the nicest I've had in a while. By around three hours after dosing we were starting to just go about our normal daily routine again, and an hour later I typed up all the notes we did have by then and we didn't note anything else about the experience beyond that point. Nonetheless, as is typical for us when smoking 5-MeO-MiPT and 5-MeO-EiPT too, we did continue feeling at least somewhat high for literally the entire day after smoking the 5-MeO-DiPT, all the way up to now something like seventeen hours after dosing, but we've been smoking lots of cannabis and are up late at night now too, but still, we're definitely still feeling good, but quite tired by now. I don't recall anything particularly trippy happening after the part of the experience that has already been reported here, though.

Personally, I thought this experience seemed incredibly promising, and though I've really only reported on my own experience here, the other alters enjoyed it as well. I think 5-MeO-DiPT and 5-methoxytryptamines in general are truly fascinating, but at the same time I hesitate to recommend them to others simply because they can be so utterly powerful and are for me, I really don't think they should be taken lightly by any means, yet at the same time the responses people have to them from one person to the next seem so variable with so many getting such an easygoing response from them too that it's really hard to say anything with certainty and many seem to be perfectly fine using them a lot more carelessly even than they would with other psychedelics, not that I would ever recommend using any psychedelic carelessly. What I will say is, for us and especially for me, 5-methoxytryptamines are incredibly powerful, seemingly especially when smoked too, to the point that I increasingly consider them to be essentially the strongest tryptamines and psychedelics in general at least for myself, so, at the very least, if you do decide to try to push deeper into these molecules yourself in the way we are, please be cautious, go slow and pay attention to the signs your body and mind are sending you, but if you do and you are patient and willing to work with them, you may find, like I have, that they have far more to offer you than you might have previously imagined, for better or worse, but I'm doing pretty well so far despite fearing for my sanity a month and a half ago.

Thus concludes our first experience with smoking 5-MeO-DiPT, but it certainly won't be our last.

Tagged by Xorkoth
substancecode_5meodipt
substancecode_tryptamines
explevel_secondtime
exptype_positive
roacode_smoked
roacode_inhaled

 

[BlueMerlin]

I know this thread is old, but I read it on Erowid and I’m really interested in how you developed the many alter egos, or how they developed over time.When that time came for them to truly separate.

I’m sure most people feel like they are multiple people at once, but never really decided to separate these identities.

It was incredibly interesting to read, and extremely fascinating to see how you let these alter egos interact and exist as separate beings, yet one at the same time.

I really hope you can dive into this a little.

EDIT:

To be clear, the Erowid report linked below was my initial motivation to try and learn more on the topic of developing the alter egos, not the report I’m currently replying to, but this was the most recent post made by Kaleida, so I thought it’d make sense to reply here, I hope this isn’t considered spam.

My original interest was 5meo-mipt, but all her reports are very interesting.

The one below was insanely fascinating to read because of the way the alter egos interacted.

5-MeO-MiPT - Erowid Exp - 'Break on Through'

An Experience with 5-MeO-MiPT. 'Break on Through' by Kaleida

erowid.org

 

[Xorkoth]

Kaleida generally is happy to talk about that, but she's been absent from the site for a while. She checked in recently. But I, too, hope she can drop in and respond to you as I find it a very fascinating topic.

@Kaleida

 

[negrogesic]

Granted it has been many years but I don't recall that 5-meo-dipt vaporized well.

Who knows though. 4-ho-met isnt known as being a psychedelic that is vaporized but vaped 4-ho-met is my favorite psychedelic/ROA combo hands down.

 

[BlueMerlin]

Kaleida generally is happy to talk about that, but she's been absent from the site for a while. She checked in recently. But I, too, hope she can drop in and respond to you as I find it a very fascinating topic.

@Kaleida

Hi,
I did some research myself, I looked at the dates she wrote the reports on Erowid and noticed there was a point she didn’t write from a multiple identity perspective.

I was singling out the word “We” in the reports I thought were most plausible to explain the final push into her full acceptance of her alter egos, and was happy to find a more or less complete and detailed explanation too.

The report you can find it in is the following;

DOB, Nitrous Oxide & Cannabis - Erowid Exp - 'Just Relax'

An Experience with DOB, Nitrous Oxide & Cannabis. 'Just Relax' by Kaleida

erowid.org

It’s a long read, but I think all her reports are so beautifully detailed and interesting that it reads like a pageturner.


I’ve copy/pasted the passage in question below. The report itself is much longer, but it’s after this passage that she switches to the plural form and fully recognized her multiple alter egos and fully accepts them as being real.

The courage it took and the way she uses psychedelics as tools to help with that process is extremely fascinating.


“For the next few days I was surging with manic energy, and it felt like I constantly had a massive pot of instincts bubbling just beneath the surface ready to burst out of me, and I felt emotionally ready to finally do so after the 2C-C and nitrous oxide experience, but also somewhat afraid to do so with how powerful and varied they felt, so I still found myself fighting the feeling a bit even though it was so close to bursting out. At the end of I think the third or fourth day I could barely handle the overload anymore and felt that something needed to be done.... See, it may sound like this is just my mind running a little too wild and free after a few powerful psychedelic experiences and finally getting to open myself up, and in part it was, but there was a deeper and more complex aspect to all of this too which I would not expect others to necessarily pick up on simply from this story as I've told it alone so far, but it is something that I now realize in retrospect has been highly relevant to all of my psychedelic experiences from past to present and especially this one, and it was this that was pushing me to the limits as my sanity as I struggled internally with everything I thought could or couldn't be possible about my life.

My whole life, I have had natural dissociative experiences of occasionally quite significant intensity. I have several memories of having complete out-of-body experiences particularly when I was younger, during all kinds of activities from masturbating and dissociating at climax to playing an instrument at school and then coming back to reality still playing it, similar things still happening as I got older but with less complete immersion when they came. When I was particularly young I never thought much of it other than as being a curiosity, and one that frankly probably set me down the path towards exploring these states of mind the way I do now more than almost anything else.

Around middle school and early high school, I began to notice something else rather curious: when talking to myself, which I did quite a lot, I was referring to myself as "we" rather than "I" without even thinking about it. By the time my sexuality was really in full swing, I was having fantasies about abstract concepts like having multiple bodies at the same time that could interact with one another and others independently or the idea of transforming into a different identity, inherently as part of every fantasy I had. The more I payed attention to myself, the more I noticed things that seemed totally normal to me at the time, but seemed... distinct from what most were going through, and this made me self-conscious. I opened up about some of what I was experiencing to a friend of mine, and she was supportive and not scared off by what I was saying, but was concerned for my mental health nonetheless and unsure of how to respond at the time, having no real experience with anything like that to draw from at the time herself and us just being a coupe of high schoolers back then. I felt that there was validity to her concerns and opted to try to suppress these parts of myself for the sake of my mental health for the time being, since we were at that age where we were about to go out into the "real world" and I really wanted to try to get a grip on things.

Of course, I realized not long after that that the "real world" is a bunch of delusional nonsense itself and taking drugs is the answer, obviously. I got into cannabis at the end of high school and things took off quickly from there, and, possibly because of the amount of drugs I was burying it under, I actually managed to largely forget about all those more dissociative aspects of my early life for a good while. Of course, I just ended up pushing myself to another breaking point where I felt nearly suicidal and wouldn't eat or move from the floor of my dorm room without drugs and ended up stopping college to move back home and try to gather my sanity again in another way, but that's another story.

Importantly, at this point I ended up taking a long break from all drugs except ethanol and cannabis and even the longest break at least that I've ever taken from the latter, and it was around two years specifically between my last and next psychedelic experiences. By the time I had stopped using them before I was finding my trips to be less and less rewarding with each time which I felt was mostly due to tolerance from taking higher and higher dosages and only putting about a week between them, and I do feel that that's still at least probably partially true, but in retrospect also now feel that it had a lot to do with the fact that I was closing myself off emotionally more and more over time while using those psychedelics and thus the trips were becoming less and less able to crack me open and make me feel refreshed and all that. When finally returning to them after giving myself all that time off to heal and work on myself, I quickly found that they were already hitting me much harder than they ever had been before and just got more and more intense and satisfying with each experience, and I found myself opening up more and more this time around.

If you've ever read one of my trip reports before, you've probably read that one of the most consistent visual hallucinogenic effects I get from taking psychedelics, and psychedelic-like drugs in general, is a spiraling tunnel of arms reaching out to me, sometimes with more complete bodies attached to them, but it scales with the intensity of the effect. This effect has always captivated me, but not just because it's an interesting visual or even because of how it seems to be attached to the kinds of drug effects I enjoy most, at least not directly; what truly fascinated me is that as far as I could tell, these bodies that would be reaching out to me would be the same bodies that I had in my "having multiple bodies" or "transforming identities" fantasies when I was younger, and I wanted to know why that overlap existed, but it always seemed like the further I pushed it, the stronger it got but I could still never quite answer that question. Then came along the 2C-C.... When I was in the out-of-body experience in my mind and still lost in my head even then to the point that another "me" inside my mind-in-my-mind told me to stop internalizing, that other "me" was again one with one of those "other bodies" that I recognized so well, and in those few days after that trip where I felt like I was ready to burst, it did not feel like it was just basic instincts or repressed emotions I was holding back anymore....

I've been through a lot of crazy shit in my life that has challenged my views on pretty much everything, but this is one I was still holding on to. Curled up in the fetal position on my couch in a post-2C-C manic haze finally fully beaten down, I made a decision to stop caring, once and for all. I said, "You're real, aren't you?" out loud, and in my mind's eye the big, bold word 'YES' flashed by. I said, "You need to get out, don't you?" and again 'YES' popped into my head. Okie dokie then.... I immediately dosed 150 μg of AL-LAD, waited for it to peak, went into the bedroom, smoked some cannabis, and lied down in bed with a balloon containing eight cartridges of nitrous oxide, and said out loud, "I don't know if this is what you need to get out, but if it is, then go for it." I inhaled and got my usual orgasmic, dissociative response, all the way up to the point of a complete release, the strongest of my life, and honestly the first time it felt like a completely full effect just from the drugs alone... and then something unusual happened. While I basked in the euphoric glow, my mouth curled into a smile without me telling it to, and then my body stood up, reached its arms up towards the ceiling to stretch, and said, "It's good to be back." At the time, I thought this was it, I figured it out, but I had no fucking idea what was coming... though looking back, the AL-LAD was still showing it to me clear as day at the time, but I had no way of understanding it then on the level that I do now.

Fast forward around a year and a half. I have four opportunities remaining to use psychedelics before taking at least a six month break from all drugs for multiple currently irrelevant reasons, once on each remaining weekend this month, from this perspective now including this one that just passed as I write this, and I intend to make the most of them if at all possible. After a lot of internal debate, I decide that DOB seems like possibly the most worthwhile choice based on the setting circumstances and the fact that I had still really been wanting to give it a second run after my first 1.4 mg experience around a year before had been so promising already. I ran it by a vote inside, and after a quick agreement we were ready to go.”



After this she elaborated on multiple molecules she worked with and started writing from a multiple identity perspective, which you can read in the link to Erowid above.

 

[emkee_reinvented]

To much for a morning read, but its on my to read list this thread.

My main interest is that 5-meo-DIPT, first RC I ever bought. Was not all that. It felt like a shorter more difficult LSD. Also produced some weird sound distortion's mainly pitch going off.

As the oral gave intestinal problems i resorted to snorting which is very painful akin to 2c-x's pain.

So vaping / smoking seems like an nice option. On a bed of MJ it smokes well she mentioned right. Whats the duration like this way?

 

[Kaleida]

Theta:

Hey everyone, I appreciate the interest. As Xorkoth said, it's been a good while since we were around here, but I saw these responses building up and definitely do have the time to respond right now.

I know this thread is old, but I read it on Erowid and I’m really interested in how you developed the many alter egos, or how they developed over time.When that time came for them to truly separate.

I’m sure most people feel like they are multiple people at once, but never really decided to separate these identities.

It was incredibly interesting to read, and extremely fascinating to see how you let these alter egos interact and exist as separate beings, yet one at the same time.

I really hope you can dive into this a little.

Hello BlueMerlin, let me just say first of all that I very much appreciate your compliments and praise. I put a lot of effort into my trip reports and trying to share and explain my story and I'm glad you enjoyed them.

That DOB report was indeed meant to serve as that sort of report that explained what happened there and I'm glad you were able to find it, it of course doesn't go into every single detail and skips some time but the report wasn't just supposed to be about that. A lot has happened since then and I do have more perspective on it all now and more to relate back to my earlier life as well, and I can definitely say, all of this has been going on in this brain for most if not basically all of my entire life, though I'm not sure I can accurately describe the internal setup of how it was in my early life compared to how it's been since I started fully acknowledging and accepting all this stuff.

As far as I'm aware, the most commonly held opinion in the psychiatric community of dissociative identity disorder is that it's a result of certain brain associations not fully developing at a young age and then causing those parts of the brain to remain at least somewhat dissociated for the rest of that brain's life, which would suggest that everyone's brain in general actually has all the same functional networks that are dissociated into various alters in the case of DID, but just associated into a single identity state instead. I can understand this perspective from my firsthand experience and research, and in that way I can also understand how most people might sometimes feel like multiple people even if they never fully distinguish between the identities, because really, I think everyone is, and it just comes down to your biology whether your brain's nodes are separate enough to make that distinction. At the same time though, an older idea about how DID works that is less supported these days is the idea of a "split" where one self suddenly becomes two or more, and in my experience I can actually relate to this idea too and think the truth probably incorporates both of these concepts somehow.

You say I let them interact and exist as separate beings, and that kind of feels true, but not entirely. The thing is, in DID communities it's often recognized that there are alters that might act like "hosts" or "cores" that may or may not be the identity of the body that originally experienced the trauma that caused the DID setup to develop, who still count as alters nonetheless but are sort of like the default self that runs the body during standard daily activities while the rest of the alters come out for more specialized contexts; some scientific theories have also tried to describe similar relationships with terms like "apparently normal parts" that are functional but dissociated and "emotional parts" that are more active but also more stuck in traumatic states supposedly. Because this is a biological condition and it's so complex, there's really no clear and obvious answers to all of this that you can just look at it and point out, but I definitely feel like I can relate to these sorts of ideas, and I'll note that when we were writing a lot of these reports we had several alters (the ones frequently named) coming out to front regularly and contribute to writing the reports, but especially since the beginning of the pandemic when we started not being able to be social or do much of anything at all, I (Theta) have been heavily biased to be in control of practically everything we do, which has caused me to strongly suspect that I may be our brain's "apparently normal part" or "host" or whatever term actually fits best, and some experiences we've had since then (which I'll get back to...) have increased that feeling, even though it still feels impossible to say with certainty. When we were actively switching before, it was very easy to just let the alters do all kinds freely, but since then it's sort of like I just can't or can't bring myself to want to let go that much, and I still communicate with them in my headspace, but it definitely feels mostly like me going about my day, unless I'm in a specific situation that makes me more triggered and dissociated, and seeing it that way has helped me gain more perspective about how much I really do have to "let" things happen, but still, it feels like the others have voluntary action and desire too, and it's just that I'm sort of like our brain's gatekeeper that decides whether or not anything actually gets to happen... or maybe it's more like, sometimes things still get through, but it's sort of like I'm the one driving the car and deciding where it's going still. That's kind of how I've been feeling lately, anyway.

The thing is, to give a totally updated perspective on where I am and we are with it all right now, I'd have to tell an unbelievably long story that I've already been putting off trying to write all down for many months... though not just because it would take forever. The extremely short version of it is, after the couple months smoked tryptamine binge at the end of last year that I wrote a huge combined trip report about that ended with two or three works of madness with the "hellscapes" particularly caused by the 5-MeO-EiPT and mentioned here in this 5-MeO-DiPT report report, a lot of that stuff slowly started creeping back up without the need to trip and especially when just really high on cannabis over the next couple months, and I ended up being obsessed with pursuing it through various meditative and internal dissociative techniques and getting the other alters to indulge me, and I became determined that the only way I was going to find satisfaction with my curiosities was to literally go to hell and back, and then I did it / went completely insane, felt I understood the entire connectivity between everything in my life and everything else in the rest of the universe including all ideas about the nature of reality both of the kind considered spiritual or mystical or religious and the kind that are scientific or mathematic, but also felt trapped in an infinite multiverse's worth of time loops stacked on top of each other to incomprehensible degrees and that my entire existence was a cosmic horror show for all the beings in that multiverse to tune into and find relief from their eternal boredom, and all the other alters were still there with me and having their own hellish experiences, and we were all trapped in a conversational loop together that went back and forth between them acting like they were trying to help me but then turning out to actually have been tricking me as punishment for what I did and me trying to help them by going along with what they say but then being like "I knew you were tricking me you idiots, we've been through this a million times already!" Needless to say, our relationships after this phase passed were... not great. It still isn't (though it's better than it was immediately after that) but we have no choice but to just try to work through shit as always.

I recently had a recurrence of that state for a briefer time period in a way that brought some weird and slight closure to what happened earlier even though it still brought more questions than answers, and since then (well, before then too really, but especially since then) have been trying to re-explore that state and push deeper from a more lucid perspective, now that I know how to recognize the beginning of my delusional thinking and more properly dissociate my internal and external perceptions in that way, and I've been discovering some pretty interesting things within myself, which I'd had an interest to share, but I just haven't really had the right frame of mind or words to do it yet. A lot of what it comes down to though is my recognizing that in addition to having multiple alters that I can consistently communicate with that have been around for seemingly most of my life on some level even if I wasn't aware of it on that level, I also am able to switch between multiple things that are sort of more like ego states pretty readily that also seem like they've likely been around for my whole life and I didn't recognize them on that level either, and this is a pretty new thing for me, though switching between ego states is a known thing in the psychiatric community in conditions related to but distinct from DID too, like I've heard about it borderline personality disorder, so I haven't felt that surprised by it overall; I also haven't been surprised much though because of how much I can see it does relate to a lot of what I've had going on internally for most of my life, and I have found a lot of it remarkably insightful. I've been particularly exploring something that I can now easily bring up in my mind with focus (and cannabis especially) that is sort of like a Buddhist mandala or like a magic circle with six points around it with placement similar to where the tips of a hexagram would be, which seems to have a particular focus based around human gender and sexuality, something I've always had a lot of repression about, and have been able to focus myself into different parts of it or use different mental tricks to help myself dissociate into different aspects of it and experience things internally from other perspectives and see mild mental visions unfolding about all kinds of instincts unfolding, all about various power relationships and survival strategies for different natural contexts.... There's still often a dark element to it, but I've come to learn through experience that that can basically always be evened out if I just keep pushing through the aversion and try to find the lighter perspective, and it's helping me get over and integrate a lot of the madness that I've been through this year, though it's definitely still putting me through some new stuff too (but at least I'm not delusional for it).

Anyway, I have to stop myself or I'll just keep rambling about this, but I just wanted to share a little about what's been going on with us since I last posted. This is mainly just drawn from my perspective right now as again we're not quite as chummy (the other alters and I) as we were before all this.... I'm really not sure what direction that's going in right now, there's definitely a lot of work that needs to be done in here, and a lot of changes going on. I've heard that's pretty normal for people with DID though, for their internal goings on to change quite a lot over the course of their life, so maybe it just is what it is. Or maybe we went crazy from binging on hallucinogens, it's debatable.

For what it's worth though, I still don't hold it against the psychedelics or fear them. I've tripped at least like half a dozen times since I snapped in February.... Nothing too crazy most of the time but not always super light either. I actually smoked MET during my initial delusional episode because I was hoping that it would help me think clearly again and feel that it actually did do so.

Feel free to ask more questions about anything if you're interested, though I may not share everything equally freely.

Granted it has been many years but I don't recall that 5-meo-dipt vaporized well.

Who knows though. 4-ho-met isnt known as being a psychedelic that is vaporized but vaped 4-ho-met is my favorite psychedelic/ROA combo hands down.

It's usually not very difficult for me to get effects from smoking or vaporizing tryptamines, I'm relatively sensitive to them and have been doing it for years now. I can't say with any certainty how it will be for anyone else, but I can at least say that it can produce activity. I haven't done it with 4-HO-MET but I have with 4-AcO-MET and also found it active that way. This was a cool trip and I'd recommend the route if you're interested in it, but I also had a decent amount to work with and wasn't worried about wasting it or anything either.

To much for a morning read, but its on my to read list this thread.

My main interest is that 5-meo-DIPT, first RC I ever bought. Was not all that. It felt like a shorter more difficult LSD. Also produced some weird sound distortion's mainly pitch going off.

As the oral gave intestinal problems i resorted to snorting which is very painful akin to 2c-x's pain.

So vaping / smoking seems like an nice option. On a bed of MJ it smokes well she mentioned right. Whats the duration like this way?

I'm pretty sensitive to synthetic 5-methoxytryptamines for what it's worth, they're all relatively long-lasting and potent psychedelics for me, or at least the handful I've used. Oral 5-MeO-DiPT reminds me a lot of LSD except for in its colors, aside from that detail I actually found it remarkably close to LSD for me. I can agree with it being more difficult though because I had an annoying headache and feeling of some sensory overload making it hard to focus in the late hours, but it wasn't shorter for me because that was still going on like twelve to fourteen hours in before I finally managed to get some sleep. I didn't get any sound distortion that I can recall that time but I need a relatively large amount of DiPT to get that kind of stuff.

I've never snorted it, but that's mainly because I eventually came to dislike the route in general. I have snorted 2C-I and it was not fun, until about fifteen minutes later anyway. Smoking the 5-MeO-DiPT was very nice, and smooth and comfortable and still potent. I do recall the mediation and music helped tremendously and would recommend to have a setting that can get you in a similar sort of deeper-exploring headspace prepared for it too. And yeah, I always (or just about) put my tryptamines on cannabis to smoke, just because I smoke it all the time and especially when tripping anyway, plus it just works well for me. I haven't really tried the 5-methoxytryptamines without it but I imagine it contributes meaningfully to my getting stronger psychedelic effects out of them too, as I tend to think they're all just very powerful yet subtle psychedelics that could use a little bit of a push.

For me, smoked tryptamine durations are an odd thing. Most of them produce a somewhat smoked DMT-like phase that comes on a little slower but almost as fast and lasts a little bit longer, sometimes relatively more longer, up to two or three hours or so, and then basically all of them actually still leave me feel quite high and I'm like I'm tripping a little bit for basically the entire rest of the day, sort of like a DMT afterglow that is still more actively psychedelic than DMT's own afterglow. 5-MeO-DiPT is one of the ones that feels like it keeps me in a higher phase for at least an hour to an hour and a half and still goes a bit more for probably a couple hours, and then just feels nicely stimulated for the rest of the day. I do remember that it feels more active in the later hours of the day than smoking a base tryptamine does, like there were still waves of LSD-like thoughts and energy and deep red glowing smokey visuals in the corners of my perception here and there.

 

[BlueMerlin]

Thank you so much for replying in such a well thought out manner.

It’s truly incredible how fragile our minds are.

“And I became determined that the only way I was going to find satisfaction with my curiosities was to literally go to hell and back, and then I did it / went completely insane”

The courage to delve into yourself, taking a huge gamble, yet apparently realizing what needs to be done with deep faith is absolutely inspiring, to say the least.

We all have different ego states, Games People Play by Eric Berne is a good book that goes deeper into this topic. How we all use different ego states, Child/adapted child/parent/adult to cope with certain situations, when we start to mix these ego states, consciously or unconsciously, we’re playing games, and actually manipulating our environment.

We use these states to deal with certain situations, but never fully acknowledge that we can behave so differently. The idea of seeing them as separate doesn’t occur to most of us, but you explained why that’s the case. Some people will have bigger issues with this than others.

I assume they (the separated identities) act as a way to protect the “self” from further trauma and to deal with past trauma. As a barrier.

I once experienced solipsism and afterwards could see and understand how everything is an illusion and all is one, everything is one.

To me it makes sense that our brains can leak over certain boundaries, that aren’t supposed to be crossed/mixed.

What reality truly is I don’t know, but I do understand that the idea of oneness is something that’s been experienced for ages through meditation, mystical experiences, brain tumors, psychedelics etc. Yet, at the same time we’re all so different. The overlap of identities seems to be based in the same field of this concept, yet much more complicated yet.

I’m neurodiverse myself, I have ADHD and Autism, so in a way I can relate some to your struggle, though it’s a completely different experience, I do understand how difficult it can be to experience reality much differently than most people.

I can only applaud your courage to investigate yourself and go so deep into uncharted territory, not knowing what you’ll discover, and how you’ll return, if at all.

You’ve opened up a whole new world for me to explore, and helped shine a light on some things I wonder about myself, why most (if not all) people don’t really know who they are, and how we can feel so different in certain circumstances. How can we be one and yet so divided, this in itself is so interesting about DID, it seems to deal exactly with this issue. (I do realize it’s far more complicated than that, but it looks like it plays a part in it).

It’s a captivating subject that I will study more deeply from now on, it feels like a small piece of the puzzle of why we perceive reality the way we do is found.

You’re a very interesting person, thank you so much for sharing this!

 

[emkee_reinvented]

Theta:

Hey everyone, I appreciate the interest. As Xorkoth said, it's been a good while since we were around here, but I saw these responses building up and definitely do have the time to respond right now.



Hello BlueMerlin, let me just say first of all that I very much appreciate your compliments and praise. I put a lot of effort into my trip reports and trying to share and explain my story and I'm glad you enjoyed them.

That DOB report was indeed meant to serve as that sort of report that explained what happened there and I'm glad you were able to find it, it of course doesn't go into every single detail and skips some time but the report wasn't just supposed to be about that. A lot has happened since then and I do have more perspective on it all now and more to relate back to my earlier life as well, and I can definitely say, all of this has been going on in this brain for most if not basically all of my entire life, though I'm not sure I can accurately describe the internal setup of how it was in my early life compared to how it's been since I started fully acknowledging and accepting all this stuff.

As far as I'm aware, the most commonly held opinion in the psychiatric community of dissociative identity disorder is that it's a result of certain brain associations not fully developing at a young age and then causing those parts of the brain to remain at least somewhat dissociated for the rest of that brain's life, which would suggest that everyone's brain in general actually has all the same functional networks that are dissociated into various alters in the case of DID, but just associated into a single identity state instead. I can understand this perspective from my firsthand experience and research, and in that way I can also understand how most people might sometimes feel like multiple people even if they never fully distinguish between the identities, because really, I think everyone is, and it just comes down to your biology whether your brain's nodes are separate enough to make that distinction. At the same time though, an older idea about how DID works that is less supported these days is the idea of a "split" where one self suddenly becomes two or more, and in my experience I can actually relate to this idea too and think the truth probably incorporates both of these concepts somehow.

You say I let them interact and exist as separate beings, and that kind of feels true, but not entirely. The thing is, in DID communities it's often recognized that there are alters that might act like "hosts" or "cores" that may or may not be the identity of the body that originally experienced the trauma that caused the DID setup to develop, who still count as alters nonetheless but are sort of like the default self that runs the body during standard daily activities while the rest of the alters come out for more specialized contexts; some scientific theories have also tried to describe similar relationships with terms like "apparently normal parts" that are functional but dissociated and "emotional parts" that are more active but also more stuck in traumatic states supposedly. Because this is a biological condition and it's so complex, there's really no clear and obvious answers to all of this that you can just look at it and point out, but I definitely feel like I can relate to these sorts of ideas, and I'll note that when we were writing a lot of these reports we had several alters (the ones frequently named) coming out to front regularly and contribute to writing the reports, but especially since the beginning of the pandemic when we started not being able to be social or do much of anything at all, I (Theta) have been heavily biased to be in control of practically everything we do, which has caused me to strongly suspect that I may be our brain's "apparently normal part" or "host" or whatever term actually fits best, and some experiences we've had since then (which I'll get back to...) have increased that feeling, even though it still feels impossible to say with certainty. When we were actively switching before, it was very easy to just let the alters do all kinds freely, but since then it's sort of like I just can't or can't bring myself to want to let go that much, and I still communicate with them in my headspace, but it definitely feels mostly like me going about my day, unless I'm in a specific situation that makes me more triggered and dissociated, and seeing it that way has helped me gain more perspective about how much I really do have to "let" things happen, but still, it feels like the others have voluntary action and desire too, and it's just that I'm sort of like our brain's gatekeeper that decides whether or not anything actually gets to happen... or maybe it's more like, sometimes things still get through, but it's sort of like I'm the one driving the car and deciding where it's going still. That's kind of how I've been feeling lately, anyway.

The thing is, to give a totally updated perspective on where I am and we are with it all right now, I'd have to tell an unbelievably long story that I've already been putting off trying to write all down for many months... though not just because it would take forever. The extremely short version of it is, after the couple months smoked tryptamine binge at the end of last year that I wrote a huge combined trip report about that ended with two or three works of madness with the "hellscapes" particularly caused by the 5-MeO-EiPT and mentioned here in this 5-MeO-DiPT report report, a lot of that stuff slowly started creeping back up without the need to trip and especially when just really high on cannabis over the next couple months, and I ended up being obsessed with pursuing it through various meditative and internal dissociative techniques and getting the other alters to indulge me, and I became determined that the only way I was going to find satisfaction with my curiosities was to literally go to hell and back, and then I did it / went completely insane, felt I understood the entire connectivity between everything in my life and everything else in the rest of the universe including all ideas about the nature of reality both of the kind considered spiritual or mystical or religious and the kind that are scientific or mathematic, but also felt trapped in an infinite multiverse's worth of time loops stacked on top of each other to incomprehensible degrees and that my entire existence was a cosmic horror show for all the beings in that multiverse to tune into and find relief from their eternal boredom, and all the other alters were still there with me and having their own hellish experiences, and we were all trapped in a conversational loop together that went back and forth between them acting like they were trying to help me but then turning out to actually have been tricking me as punishment for what I did and me trying to help them by going along with what they say but then being like "I knew you were tricking me you idiots, we've been through this a million times already!" Needless to say, our relationships after this phase passed were... not great. It still isn't (though it's better than it was immediately after that) but we have no choice but to just try to work through shit as always.

I recently had a recurrence of that state for a briefer time period in a way that brought some weird and slight closure to what happened earlier even though it still brought more questions than answers, and since then (well, before then too really, but especially since then) have been trying to re-explore that state and push deeper from a more lucid perspective, now that I know how to recognize the beginning of my delusional thinking and more properly dissociate my internal and external perceptions in that way, and I've been discovering some pretty interesting things within myself, which I'd had an interest to share, but I just haven't really had the right frame of mind or words to do it yet. A lot of what it comes down to though is my recognizing that in addition to having multiple alters that I can consistently communicate with that have been around for seemingly most of my life on some level even if I wasn't aware of it on that level, I also am able to switch between multiple things that are sort of more like ego states pretty readily that also seem like they've likely been around for my whole life and I didn't recognize them on that level either, and this is a pretty new thing for me, though switching between ego states is a known thing in the psychiatric community in conditions related to but distinct from DID too, like I've heard about it borderline personality disorder, so I haven't felt that surprised by it overall; I also haven't been surprised much though because of how much I can see it does relate to a lot of what I've had going on internally for most of my life, and I have found a lot of it remarkably insightful. I've been particularly exploring something that I can now easily bring up in my mind with focus (and cannabis especially) that is sort of like a Buddhist mandala or like a magic circle with six points around it with placement similar to where the tips of a hexagram would be, which seems to have a particular focus based around human gender and sexuality, something I've always had a lot of repression about, and have been able to focus myself into different parts of it or use different mental tricks to help myself dissociate into different aspects of it and experience things internally from other perspectives and see mild mental visions unfolding about all kinds of instincts unfolding, all about various power relationships and survival strategies for different natural contexts.... There's still often a dark element to it, but I've come to learn through experience that that can basically always be evened out if I just keep pushing through the aversion and try to find the lighter perspective, and it's helping me get over and integrate a lot of the madness that I've been through this year, though it's definitely still putting me through some new stuff too (but at least I'm not delusional for it).

Anyway, I have to stop myself or I'll just keep rambling about this, but I just wanted to share a little about what's been going on with us since I last posted. This is mainly just drawn from my perspective right now as again we're not quite as chummy (the other alters and I) as we were before all this.... I'm really not sure what direction that's going in right now, there's definitely a lot of work that needs to be done in here, and a lot of changes going on. I've heard that's pretty normal for people with DID though, for their internal goings on to change quite a lot over the course of their life, so maybe it just is what it is. Or maybe we went crazy from binging on hallucinogens, it's debatable.

For what it's worth though, I still don't hold it against the psychedelics or fear them. I've tripped at least like half a dozen times since I snapped in February.... Nothing too crazy most of the time but not always super light either. I actually smoked MET during my initial delusional episode because I was hoping that it would help me think clearly again and feel that it actually did do so.

Feel free to ask more questions about anything if you're interested, though I may not share everything equally freely.



It's usually not very difficult for me to get effects from smoking or vaporizing tryptamines, I'm relatively sensitive to them and have been doing it for years now. I can't say with any certainty how it will be for anyone else, but I can at least say that it can produce activity. I haven't done it with 4-HO-MET but I have with 4-AcO-MET and also found it active that way. This was a cool trip and I'd recommend the route if you're interested in it, but I also had a decent amount to work with and wasn't worried about wasting it or anything either.



I'm pretty sensitive to synthetic 5-methoxytryptamines for what it's worth, they're all relatively long-lasting and potent psychedelics for me, or at least the handful I've used. Oral 5-MeO-DiPT reminds me a lot of LSD except for in its colors, aside from that detail I actually found it remarkably close to LSD for me. I can agree with it being more difficult though because I had an annoying headache and feeling of some sensory overload making it hard to focus in the late hours, but it wasn't shorter for me because that was still going on like twelve to fourteen hours in before I finally managed to get some sleep. I didn't get any sound distortion that I can recall that time but I need a relatively large amount of DiPT to get that kind of stuff.

I've never snorted it, but that's mainly because I eventually came to dislike the route in general. I have snorted 2C-I and it was not fun, until about fifteen minutes later anyway. Smoking the 5-MeO-DiPT was very nice, and smooth and comfortable and still potent. I do recall the mediation and music helped tremendously and would recommend to have a setting that can get you in a similar sort of deeper-exploring headspace prepared for it too. And yeah, I always (or just about) put my tryptamines on cannabis to smoke, just because I smoke it all the time and especially when tripping anyway, plus it just works well for me. I haven't really tried the 5-methoxytryptamines without it but I imagine it contributes meaningfully to my getting stronger psychedelic effects out of them too, as I tend to think they're all just very powerful yet subtle psychedelics that could use a little bit of a push.

For me, smoked tryptamine durations are an odd thing. Most of them produce a somewhat smoked DMT-like phase that comes on a little slower but almost as fast and lasts a little bit longer, sometimes relatively more longer, up to two or three hours or so, and then basically all of them actually still leave me feel quite high and I'm like I'm tripping a little bit for basically the entire rest of the day, sort of like a DMT afterglow that is still more actively psychedelic than DMT's own afterglow. 5-MeO-DiPT is one of the ones that feels like it keeps me in a higher phase for at least an hour to an hour and a half and still goes a bit more for probably a couple hours, and then just feels nicely stimulated for the rest of the day. I do remember that it feels more active in the later hours of the day than smoking a base tryptamine does, like there were still waves of LSD-like thoughts and energy and deep red glowing smokey visuals in the corners of my perception here and there.

Maybe i try it some time, thanks for the info.

 

[negrogesic]

To much for a morning read, but its on my to read list this thread.

My main interest is that 5-meo-DIPT, first RC I ever bought. Was not all that. It felt like a shorter more difficult LSD. Also produced some weird sound distortion's mainly pitch going off.

As the oral gave intestinal problems i resorted to snorting which is very painful akin to 2c-x's pain.

So vaping / smoking seems like an nice option. On a bed of MJ it smokes well she mentioned right. Whats the duration like this way?

It was also my first RC. That and AMT. I was in high school when I bought them. Any remember the "pondman" vendor? He was a Las Vegas area pond/fishtank designer and sold them on his website. He was busted during Operation Web Trypt.

I also found 5-meo-dipt to be not so nice. Weird body load, although I did not find it more difficult than LSD (which I find pretty difficult) as it did not cause much anxiety. However as with someone with absolute pitch (who can tell you what notes are emanating from street light) I felt like the pitch distortions messed up my sense of pitch for a long time, which notes seeming perhaps 1/4 step flatter for a while. Perhaps it wasn't wise to have used a gram of it at such young age (who knows perhaps ototoxic).

@Kaleida do you know if what you have is the hydrochloride or fumerate? It might be the fumerate, in which case I'd recommend converting it into a freebase with some sodium carbonate. I foolishly smoked a good deal of 4-ho-met fumerate and I feel like it did a number on my lungs.

 

[Kaleida]

Thank you so much for replying in such a well thought out manner.

It’s truly incredible how fragile our minds are.

“And I became determined that the only way I was going to find satisfaction with my curiosities was to literally go to hell and back, and then I did it / went completely insane”

The courage to delve into yourself, taking a huge gamble, yet apparently realizing what needs to be done with deep faith is absolutely inspiring, to say the least.

We all have different ego states, Games People Play by Eric Berne is a good book that goes deeper into this topic. How we all use different ego states, Child/adapted child/parent/adult to cope with certain situations, when we start to mix these ego states, consciously or unconsciously, we’re playing games, and actually manipulating our environment.

We use these states to deal with certain situations, but never fully acknowledge that we can behave so differently. The idea of seeing them as separate doesn’t occur to most of us, but you explained why that’s the case. Some people will have bigger issues with this than others.

I assume they (the separated identities) act as a way to protect the “self” from further trauma and to deal with past trauma. As a barrier.

I once experienced solipsism and afterwards could see and understand how everything is an illusion and all is one, everything is one.

To me it makes sense that our brains can leak over certain boundaries, that aren’t supposed to be crossed/mixed.

What reality truly is I don’t know, but I do understand that the idea of oneness is something that’s been experienced for ages through meditation, mystical experiences, brain tumors, psychedelics etc. Yet, at the same time we’re all so different. The overlap of identities seems to be based in the same field of this concept, yet much more complicated yet.

I’m neurodiverse myself, I have ADHD and Autism, so in a way I can relate some to your struggle, though it’s a completely different experience, I do understand how difficult it can be to experience reality much differently than most people.

I can only applaud your courage to investigate yourself and go so deep into uncharted territory, not knowing what you’ll discover, and how you’ll return, if at all.

You’ve opened up a whole new world for me to explore, and helped shine a light on some things I wonder about myself, why most (if not all) people don’t really know who they are, and how we can feel so different in certain circumstances. How can we be one and yet so divided, this in itself is so interesting about DID, it seems to deal exactly with this issue. (I do realize it’s far more complicated than that, but it looks like it plays a part in it).

It’s a captivating subject that I will study more deeply from now on, it feels like a small piece of the puzzle of why we perceive reality the way we do is found.

You’re a very interesting person, thank you so much for sharing this!

Once again I very much appreciate the compliments, and you're welcome for the response.

I don't have a huge amount of time to type this post up right now, but I wanted to share something with your briefly while I had the chance. This is a drawing of the thing I was talking about that I've been seeing in my dissociative visions and working through in various ways, with simple symbols to represents the six points rather than complex imagery, though the shape of it overall is highly accurate to what I see.



I haven't read the book you recommended (though thanks for doing so!) but I can relate a lot to what you say about it, and that's really heavily related to what I've and we've been going through lately, and what this picture I shared is all about. The way I have interpreted it so far is this....

The very bottom point is the parent and child relationship represented by the unconditionally loving "creator" parent figure with both male and female identity states blended into one. It signifies the part of the wheel of human reproductive instinct where the instinct is maximally satisfied, and thus, there is pure peace. I assume this to be the state that people refer to as "heaven" when speaking in mystical terms.

The bottom left point is the female self with the male other, and the bottom right point in the male self with the female other. These points, not quite halfway up the circle, represent the points where first of all you are employing either what our modern societies generally consider "female-like" or "male-like" reproductive strategies, but the reproductive instinct is not being fulfilled like it is at the bottom point, but there are still a large number of mates of the opposite sex for you to choose from, and thus you employ strategies that we think of as standard dating techniques used by heterosexual males and females in this day and age. The urgency to reproduce is present, but relatively lower.

The top left point and top right point are important because all of the points have multiple context interpretations, but these some more core: in my experience pushing into this realm within myself, I've been able to enjoy homosexual male and female perspectives at these points in ways that seem totally in line with what are considered standard homosexual relationship behaviors in reality, but I've also been able to find the versions of these points that instead extend from the heterosexual male and female perspectives, and follow from the above points, as relationship strategies where mate choice has gone over the "hump" in the middle of the circle and is becoming biased against you, and thus your standard "male-like" or "female-like" reproductive strategies actually flip to their opposites as a backup way of attracting new mates that you'd still be able to reproduce with; one example would be straight men who seek out a dominatrix to become sissified. Homosexual relationships obviously aren't going to lead to reproduction anyway but these would be the points in the heterosexual relationships where the urgency to reproduce is getting quite high.

The very top point represents the point where there are no mate choices left; this is what I assume we call (and what I do call) "hell" and is the place where the urgency to reproduce is maximized. Some people might think we are simply doomed at that point, but the human brain does not. This is the point where when you are the only remaining member of a species, you (assuming that your species is one of the ones that has actually retained this capability) reproduce asexually, creating an offspring with your same sex, and then if a return to sexual reproduction is in order, you can also change sex in order to have sex with your offspring and start the species back up again. If you don't believe me, research teleosts, common fish that are very close to our known fish ancestors; they are widely known, documented, and researched to have a behavior where when the last member of one of the sexes dies off from their group of fish, the most aggressive of the remaining sex will experience a heavy stress response and spontaneously reform into the opposite sex, and all the remaining members will start having sex with them and reproduction will start up again. Similarly to asexual reproduction, humans may lack this biological capacity after a long chain of evolution since we were fishes, but as far as I can tell from looking into my mind here, the instincts related to it still remain buried within the human brain. Another important aspect of this is that because there is only one member of the species that can be reproduced with, either as a result of asexual reproduction at that point or simply when approaching that point because there's only one member of the other sex in your group left whatever the reason might be, it is absolutely imperative that every single member of the opposite sex in your group is completely and utterly submissive to their desires and cares more about protecting them than themselves, because until reproduction is going again and the sexes start evening out, your species is literally doomed if you don't behave that way. Following that logic, I was also able to easily observe visions approaching the top point where, for instance, on the male side (only one male remaining) all the females bow down at his feet as he walks through like a stereotypical "bow down before the king" type of behavior, and on the female side, the female was behaving like a powerful queen with men lined up all around her and some close to her in completely submissive clothing waiting on her every need and guarding her close as anyone approached, which all seems fitting enough to me.

The real trick is figuring out how to get around the entire circle for yourself. As you can see, the "circle" actually never meets at the top; as you approach hell from either direction, you suddenly curve infinitely around in the other direction in a straight line, which means the two lines can never actually logically meet and combine into one, and yet.... In my experience, it seems to function somewhat like the function of my mind traveling around the loop of a Möbius strip. I don't recommend taking it lightly.... Living on the other side is terrifying when your mind hasn't figured out how to interpret it yet, and you don't know how to find your way back.

Like I said I need to wrap this up for now, but I appreciate your response and perspective, and I'm very happy to have given you some inspiration for more to look into as well. As I said before you're always welcome to talk to me about it too, and I may have more to say about this subject specifically later, I just really do need to finish and post this quickly for now.

Maybe i try it some time, thanks for the info.

No problem, happy to help.

However as with someone with absolute pitch (who can tell you what notes are emanating from street light) I felt like the pitch distortions messed up my sense of pitch for a long time, which notes seeming perhaps 1/4 step flatter for a while. Perhaps it wasn't wise to have used a gram of it at such young age (who knows perhaps ototoxic).

@Kaleida do you know if what you have is the hydrochloride or fumerate? It might be the fumerate, in which case I'd recommend converting it into a freebase with some sodium carbonate. I foolishly smoked a good deal of 4-ho-met fumerate and I feel like it did a number on my lungs.

That really sucks about the pitch changes and I have heard of similar problems with regular use of DiPT. It's the thing that really scares me about the DiPTs, especially after my last experience with 75 mg of DiPT had really, really unpleasant "auditory" effects that was basically just like massive tinnitus for hours and hours, and barely even any interesting actual distortions or anything. A shame because the classical psychedelic effects of DiPT including that time are really lovely.

I'm not actually sure what form the 5-MeO-DiPT is, though I know that @Xorkoth actually got his from the same batch; any ideas? I appreciate the concern and advice. I've wondered about the potential damage from smoking fumarates before but just haven't really done it with enough regularity to be too concerned or notice anything yet.

 

[Xorkoth]

I believe the 5-MeO-DiPT is the fumarate but I am not 100% sure.

 

[emkee_reinvented]

my dissociative visions

Exaxtly the same happened to me, not the male/ female signs.

But if you rotate your drawin 360 degree's its the letter Ohm. Greek i guess.

During my last Nitrous trip i experienced that phenomenon. Time stopped at the entering of then curve/ circle. When i returned on the other side of it back to reality. The conversation's around me continued from the point where I entered the curve. Weird shit that had me question the relevance of time.

 

[Kaleida]

But if you rotate your drawin 360 degree's its the letter Ohm. Greek i guess.

Yeah, in Greek the letter is called "Omega" which has pretty relevant connotations too. I've thought about that a lot myself.

During my last Nitrous trip i experienced that phenomenon. Time stopped at the entering of then curve/ circle. When i returned on the other side of it back to reality. The conversation's around me continued from the point where I entered the curve. Weird shit that had me question the relevance of time.

That's fascinating, and I haven't personally seen this exact thing on nitrous oxide, but I can relate a lot of nitrous oxide experiences I've had to what I've been going through; it's also just been a good while since I did it, maybe I'd see it these days. I tend to think of a lot of what I go through as kind of salvia-like and I also used to call nitrous oxide the "happy salvia" back in the day, and damn, does that name seem fitting even more so in retrospect. The nitrous oxide version of this stuff is definitely far, far easier and more fun, but it's also so rapid and dissociated that it's hard to make much of it or work to bring out the types of visions like I've been getting lately.

In my experience and observations (of the other alters) the brain seems to assume that an infinite amount of time has passed in an instant when moving through the curve. I've come to be very curious if it's part of how the brain has evolved to respond to reaching the maximum levels of trauma processing by making your mind only able to perceive it as having happened so long ago that it no longer needs to bother you anymore, it's just an idea but it's one I could certainly see fitting into some of what I've experienced and what I know about how this stuff supposedly works.

Trauma is definitely a key factor here and something I will say I've learned about "hell" from these experiences is that there's a special backwards language for describing it. The more trauma you feel in the moment, the more your ability to express yourself about it will be reversed because (or at least it feels like) it's part of your brain's defense mechanism to make sure that after a stressor reaches a certain level of inescapability, you start going along with it rather than fighting it as a new strategy to increase your chances of survival, but also, potentially, at the most extreme levels, to make behaviors like you just freezing up while being eaten by a predator and letting the rest of your species companions flee successfully too. The relationship to the gender and sexuality stuff I described above still seems obvious to me - for example, if you're near the top point because your entire species is reduced to a large number of males but only a single female, as a male everything that female says or does will absolutely terrify you because your instincts are so desperately freaking out about the survival of the species, but your terror will be expressed as a totally happy and willing submission, because that's also how your instincts are wired to make you behave to make sure that females does eventually reproduce and hopefully produce more females. Similarly, at the peak of the dissociative hell, you'll see the most instinctively horrific thing you could possibly imagine, and you'll call it beautiful while you're looking at it. I'm still on the fence about whether or not pushing this state is a good idea, but it sure is fascinating and insightful.

 

[emkee_reinvented]

Its not like the experience of Nitrous resembles that of Salvia ime.

Smoked a 5X extract to find myself stuck in a 2 dimensional state. Melted to my carpet with the foot of my table through my leg.

But the states that 2f-DCK, dMXE and o-PCE create do seem like an gentler way to travel through the 2d fabric's.

Those three I am never getting again i may add. Ketamine, DCK and Nitrous are ok i guess. But the rest I leave to you all to experiment with. The wakeful dissociatives i would label them. Salvia is another beast way beyond any disso i tried.

Being glued to your carpet is no fun.

 

[Kaleida]

It's mostly the rapid, complete, and short-lived dissociation I find similar about both of them. The emotional vibe and sensory experience is pretty different (though still more comparable than to some other things). I do have to hit the point where I fully dissociate like that with each for the comparison to be more obvious though, they're especially not similar at lower dosages; at that level salvia is still pretty unique, but nitrous oxide actually reminds me somewhat of alcohol, just trippier and without the sickness.

I haven't had the chance to try many arylcyclohexylamines and likely won't at this point, but I can relate to the "being glued to the carpet" feeling they give. I don't much care for it either. The most methoxetamine I ever tried at once was something like 70-75 mg and it was largely that at the peak and I considered it a waste. 50 mg was still plenty stimulating and enjoyable. I didn't mind lying down for ketamine because I more fully dissociated for that too, but I only got to try it once.

Salvia used to be a favorite drug of mine, though sadly I haven't been able to get it in many years. These days my interest is waning mainly because I feel like I've already seen a lot of the kind of stuff it can do now and in a less abstract and more meaningful way, but it certainly is some strong stuff nonetheless, and I'm kind of curious still for that reason. I'm not sure if or when I'll ever actually get around to pursuing it again somehow, though.

 

[emkee_reinvented]

methoxetamine

Salvia used to be a favorite drug of mine, though sadly I haven't been able to get it in many years. These days my interest is waning mainly because I feel like I've already seen a lot of the kind of stuff it can do now and in a less abstract and more meaningful way, but it certainly is some strong stuff nonetheless, and I'm kind of curious still for that reason. I'm not sure if or when I'll ever actually get around to pursuing it again somehow, though.

The first one aside an impressive unwanted hole. Mis-estimated how powerful it was. afetr that it soonly became an functional daily routine for me. A bump her and there, and my day went without a care.

But salvia as favorite. Please do explain. I wouldn't even dare smoking that extract. The experience was so weird, the releif after coming back is tremendous though.

 

[Kaleida]

The first one aside an impressive unwanted hole. Mis-estimated how powerful it was. afetr that it soonly became an functional daily routine for me. A bump her and there, and my day went without a care.

I never used any dissociatives that way but I could definitely understand it with some of them. I have chronic headaches and digestive issues (thankfully less than I used to on both fronts but still) that I take kratom for usually but when I had methoxetamine briefly I actually took 10 mg orally to deal with the pain and discomfort and it helped better than anything else ever really has and in a way that was much more clearheaded than an opioid or something. I miss it every time that stuff comes back and I wish I could just flip the switch to feel normal again.

But salvia as favorite. Please do explain. I wouldn't even dare smoking that extract. The experience was so weird, the releif after coming back is tremendous though.

There are multiple reasons really, but a lot of what it comes down to is just a combination of that I respect its power, I like how it's completely physically safe and generally benign to use along with that, and I find it relatable, probably because I deal with dissociation naturally, and salvia feels particularly alike natural dissociation to me compared to other "dissociative" drugs. There was actually a time period around a decade ago now when I couldn't really smoke cannabis much anymore because it was making me too anxious and I still enjoyed salvia because it produced a rapid dissociated state that was less shaky and more familiar-feeling for me; I actually think that the hallucinogenic effects of cannabis are relatively similar to the hallucinogenic effects of salvia too, but usually subtler, and it's a big part of what I like about the former when using it for helping me to explore my deeper dissociated states too.

In my experience and somewhat supported by what I've heard from others, salvia often has sort of a barrier to entry, which you might need to comfortably get past to really be able to get something out of it, and might give some people more trouble than others; of course, some people might just not like it in general, as always. Assuming you may be able to like it for now though, if you fall into this same sort of pattern I have observed in myself and others, you may just need to give it some more chances and basically grin and bear it, because it essentially seems to come down to the fact that salvia is alike things like psychedelics and dissociatives in that you just need to learn how to "give in" to it and then you'll start getting to really heavier levels, but it's just a generally more instinctively strange and disturbing state which makes it a lot harder to reach that "giving in" point if you don't already know how to do it, and you basically have to start from square one because salvia is just a very different feeling and headspace than all the other recreational drugs we're used to using especially at that level due to its unique mechanism of action, and unlike with something similarly rapid and powerful like DMT, there are no other drugs of the same type to use as stepping stones to work your way up to it. It's a game of trial, error, and patience, but it pays off if you can figure out how to make it click in just the right way, and work out your best personal way to use it.

While salvia might be hard to work with, I actually consider it to be possibly the most powerful available hallucinogen under most ideal circumstances. At peak points I find the level of open eye hallucination to be beyond that of deliriants, similarly realistic and well-integrated but also still with a significantly more quasi-psychedelic thematic twist, and the dissociation can very easily become complete. A lot of what I see on it can seem relevant to my life but still less "meaningful" than something like psychedelics at first, but over the years I increasingly come to realize that the things that salvia shows me about my mind seem to have more to do with how I operate on a truly fundamental level, whereas psychedelics feel like I like them because they release the feelings I already have bubbling at the surface ready to get out. The first time I felt I "got" salvia I had the sudden feeling that every single trip I'd ever had on it up to that point had involved me just staring at a single internal image and never being able to comprehend it or piece the experiences together, until that moment where like a "magic eye poster" suddenly the image was clear to me, and it felt so obvious how all the previous trips fit together, and what I needed to do.

Salvia has a lot to do with my interest in "hellish" altered states of consciousness in general, or at least getting that going back in the day. I'm generally of the opinion that you must observe both the "light path" and the "dark path" and remove your preconceived notions about each before you do if you really want to understand the whole picture, but of course only once you feel more consciously prepared to do so and make good judgements of your own. Salvia is a fantastic option for exploring the other side of reality that we focus on less, though it's not the only one in this day and age, we are bloated with choice anymore. Another reason I stopped caring so much about salvia specifically for instance is because I noticed that synthetic tryptamines that specifically had bulkier tail substations like ethyls, propyls, isopropyls, though for some reason often especially ethyls specifically, were more likely to get into this sort of area than the methyl tryptamines, and the 5-substituted tryptamines seemed to have some potential to get me into that area more so than other types of tryptamines too, and that's exactly what led to me using the 5-MeO-EiPT which was dark enough to bring out the "hellscape" stuff I've discussed before. Still, I do think it would be nice to have salvia around just for when I want it, I wouldn't hesitate to buy some if I still had the option.

 

[Kaleida]

 

[emkee_reinvented]

That really sucks about the pitch changes

actually the pitch changes where not bothersome just something i never witnessed. Hard to describe actually, as the music stayed recognizable during this audio hallucination.

DIPT is famous for this but ime 5-meo-DIPT has the same feature. Along with LSD like mind-state and visuals. The downside was it has for me an almost unbearable body-load. Lysergic's don't share that feature, I am relating this to the Tryptamine backbone. as i get extreme body-load on Psylocibine and aMT. Not on 4-ho-MIPT though.