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  • AADD Moderators: swilow | Vagabond696

5-htp rocks!

p_d, would you have any idea of how long one should cease their use of 5-htp before a big night?

I thought pre/post loading was the way to go, but obviously not. Would be good to find out what a safe amount of time was.
 
wow.......thanks for that p_d very useful information, is there much more on other supplements and pre and post load you know of??

To be honest Mick, I haven't really kept up with recent findings. I'd like to see something more on MDMA induced inhibition of tryp hydroxylase in relation to tryptophan metabolism. there's been a bit done to date, but I've yet to read a suitable explanation for the effectiveness of L-tryp and it's seemingly fast conversion to serotonin even when taken following MDMA. It's surprising it works at all, but it certainly does.

p_d, would you have any idea of how long one should cease their use of 5-htp before a big night?

5HTP decarboxylation --> 5HT (serotonin) will probably occur on demand, so it should take little time for a dose to replenish serotonin. Still, there seems to be other mechanisms at play, possibly affecting the catabolic rate (breakdown) of serotonin. It would certainly support user accounts of a lessened response to MDMA when taken with or close to 5HTP. The thing is, excess serotonin will be mopped up by monoamine oxidase (unless otherwise inhibited etc) or one of the other routes e.g. acetylation via arylalkylamine N-acetyltransferase followed by conversion to melatonin (via the O-methyltransferase).


Other catabolic routes for serotonin exist. These involve immunomodulatory enzymes such as indoleamine 2,3-dioxygenase (--> hydroxy formyl kynurenine). Tumor cells often produce high levels of serotonin, synthesised from 5HTP. Could some of these mechanisms come into play when 5HTP levels exceed 'normal'?

What about Tryotopham - is that available her?

Last time I checked, OTC products containing L-tryptophan in Australia were limited to ~100mg. An effective dose for preloading or as a supplement is upwards of 1000mg/day. Nature's Own used to produce a 500mg tablet, but that required prescription (for a questionable explanation, check out eosinophilia myalgia syndrome). Anyway, N's Own stopped producing L-tryp some years ago. Around 2 years ago, my GP offered to write out a script for it (as he'd done in the past) but he couldn't find any company in Aus that was making it. A local pharmacist said Alphafarm in Bris offered to produce it but it was hideously expensive and their maximum dosage was 200mg/tablet.

I've a few friends who use L-tryptophan regularly as a general supplement. They either order online or buy it when travelling abroad. I can't say whether there's problems ordering it without prescription, although a scrip should be fairly easy to obtain.
 
Cheers P_D, excellent info and answered my question perfectly. Thanks one follow up question; how long should i leave the L-tyrosine supplement before having a pill?
 
Cheers P_D, excellent info and answered my question perfectly. Thanks one follow up question; how long should i leave the L-tyrosine supplement before having a pill?

At a guess I'd say 24 hours should be ok.

p_d, would you have any idea of how long one should cease their use of 5-htp before a big night?

Sorry TechKnow, I didn't really answer your question. In short, I don't really know. I'd say you should be right if you stop 5HTP a day or 2 before MDMA, but others with experience may disagree. Personally I never really liked the effects from 5HTP, nor am I all that comfortable with bypassing the rate limiting step in serotonin biosynthesis. L-tryptophan always worked well for me and others I know who've tried it, and it's, well, for want of a better word, more natural.
 
Ive been taking 5HTP on and off for the past 8 months and swear by it for the days following a pill bender, I also take vitimin B and magnesium which seems to help.
It is available in Sydney over the counter, you just have to know where to ask :)
 
phase_dancer said:
Just as quick but important note:

Tyrosine should not be used concurrently with MDMA, or as a pre/post load.


L-tyrosine has been shown to be directly associated with MDMA-dopamine induced neurotoxicity.
Would this mean that this neurotoxicity could occur with L-tyrosine+Amphetamine use also?
 
Would this mean that this neurotoxicity could occur with L-tyrosine+Amphetamine use also?

Edit: Upon thinking about this, it's likely additional L-tyrosine when taken as a pre-load or concurrently with meth, will actually increase meth induced neurotoxicity. As amphetamine is substantially less toxic, L-tyrosine may be of some benefit to those prescribed dexamphetamine. However, meth causes additional dopamine to be produced through stimulation of tyrosine hydroxylase, and it's the dopamine (DA) itself that becomes the toxic component, through, among other things meth induced inhibition of MAO which likely results in production of cytosolic catabolism products which are reactive and destructive to cells.
 
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my housemate just got a 90 pack of 50mg.
he imported it in from a website in new zealand.
radiane serotone 50mg

we've just started up on it,
taking 2 a night.

i got tired and watched a movie, then went to sleep.
slept really well (had a couple of valerian caps aswell)

woke up. today work was easy, in a pretty good mood.
have found myself to be less hungry, and a bit more cheery than normal

just don't seem to have my usual energy.
then again i didnt take any vitamin b today, and all i had was yogo for breakfast.

but seems like it might do the trick, we're mostly using it cos we can easily eat 5 - 10 pills each in a night, hopefully by replenishing serotonin stocks it'll drop tolerance and i'm hoping it may be good to remove shitful moods on ice / meth comedowns.
 
hopefully by replenishing serotonin stocks it'll drop tolerance and i'm hoping it may be good to remove shitful moods on ice / meth comedowns.

Firstly, tolerance is a much more complex issue. Receptor sequestration is a big one. This is where receptors sink into cell walls and become inaccessible to synthetic and natural ligands (e.g. dopamine or serotonin, and/or the drug itself). Other factors such as altered enzyme or receptor density, and alternative metabolic routes also play a part in tolerance. Taking a supplement like 5HTP isn't likely to alter tolerance at all. Abstinence is the only sure treatment for this, and even then, things will probably never be the same as the 'honeymoon period' of MDMA.

Also, meth doesn't cause a depletion in serotonin so why would you think 5HTP would help here? Meth mainly causes depletions and other changes in the NE and dopaminergic systems and 5HTP isn't a dopamine precursor. Dopamine is restored much more quickly than a corresponding depletion of neural serotonin, so L-tyrosine might help here (edit: as a post load only though, taken 2-3 days after meth). Meth comedown is also related to the duration of the experience and other factors such as sleep depravation, low blood sugar from not eating while there's a corresponding increase in metabolic rate, and from some of the psychoactive metabolites of meth, which, while stimulating, also probably cause more of a body load.

The secret is less drug, less often. Many long term and regular users of speed (meth-glucose mix) report little to no comedown from their habit.
 
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well i was thinking it might just help general moods.
i don't get angry on comedown or anything. i just feel tired and everything bores me... you know that real... "i'm so fucking bored" feeling. but you're sitting there with the xbox control in hand, and cbf putting a game on.

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i was hoping with that little push from 5htp it could put me in a better mood, and therefore eliminate my idea of a meth /shards comedown.

i do use the glucose-meth mix.. but not too often.used to be hooked on it, now its a once a month type thing if that.

generally its rocks of meth with a little caff as cutter for me.
i then crush and rail it ;)

the tolerance issue i'm talking about with pills.
i figure that if theres more serotonin to release then i'll need to take less.

but when you encounter large amounts of pills. it's hard to not eat many.

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pills seemed to more commonly contain mdma, this had me depressed after a good year and a bit of constant use.
i was prescribed an anti depressant.

efexor i think. it basically replenished my serotonin and the md honeymoon was back for me for a little while

since then i go through phases and cycle my drugs from week to week, then mix them in

but the ideal hope is remove the general "bleh" from the shards comedown.
and of course have more serotonin to release when i do drop a pill.. rather than eating 10 in a night and getting less than someone doubling up.

but yeah, still using the 5htp daily
what i've noticed is reduced appetite today, had an awesome sleep last night
and i've had 3 beers and im giggly and happy.

and i'm about 6'3" and 105kg or so.
so it's not like i'm small and petite.

i do see what you mean tho.
even if it's a psychological placebo effect. i'd be content

[Edit- This is a harm reduction website, please think about that before posting stories of your binges. lil angel15]
 
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