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5-htp and B6

clear_sky

Bluelighter
Joined
Mar 19, 2012
Messages
97
Hello :)

I'm about to start taking 5-htp for mood enhancement.
I used to take SSRIs years ago and for the last year I've been clean of EVERYTHING (even alcohol!).
Lately I've been feeling kinda flat and unmotivated so I purchased some 5-htp online and should be getting it sometime this week.
Like many other people, I've been reading forums and websites about danger/benefits of taking 5-htp with B6. I take a magnesium supplement every evening, it contains 60mg of B6. I was thinking that the way to go would be: take 25mg 5-htp in the morning (around 6:30am, when I wake up), take another 25mg in the afternoon (3pm-ish) and have the magnesium/b6 before bed (8pm at the earliest).
From what I've been able to gather, spacing out 5-htp and b6 shouldn't cause any problems?

Any thoughts?
 
Welcome to Bluelight, clear_sky.

I've moved your thread to Other Drugs, where you might be able to generate more precise answers.
 
Switch that around.

Take the mag in the am, and take the 5HTP before you go to sleep. 5HTP aids in sleep, therefore having a tendency to make you tired. High doses of HTP have shown to cause vivid nightmares, so start with a low dose and see how you react to it, and add to it slowly. If you are still taking your SSRI (I think you said you 'used' to take it...) do not exceed more than 100mg per day to avoid risk of serotonin syndrome. But to answer your question, I would do the following, taking the pills right before you eat, as they are better absorbed on an empty stomach, but are mostly wasted and excreted if not mixed with some food.
Before breakfast: mag/b6 dose
Before dinner: 25mg 5-HTP
Before bed: 25mg 5-HTP
 
Thanks, Simply_Live :)

littlepenguin, I shall follow your advice. I'm not taking SSRIs and haven't for about 3-4 years.
So, if I understand correctly - take 5htp on an empty stomach and then proceed to mix with food?
And what's considered a low dose? I've read about people taking from 25mg to 300mg a day for mood enhancement.

I was looking at the time release capsules as well, but couldn't really fathom them.
100mg but released over a long time, as opposed to taking a normal 50mg dose means you're getting less 5htp in one hit, right?

I take magnesium in the evenings because it's a fairly high dose (I take it to alleviate post-workout cramping) and can make me feel sleepy.
Guess I'll just have to drink more coffee in the mornings :)
 
clearsky:

-Haven't taken SSRI's for years? You have nothing to worry about (in reference to being aware of serotonin syndrome)
-The reason I say take on an empty stomach and then proceed with food is because vitamins and other supplements are really a waste if not taken correctly. You'll pretty much pee out most of the pill if you 1) take too many pills at once 2) don't take it with something to help it digest, aka food or 3) take some supplements with a full stomach, which tends to lessen the effectiveness of some supplements. When you take too many pills at once, like if you were taking 6 different vitamins and 3 herbal supplements and downing them all with a glass of water in the morning when you woke up with no food, you should basically just chuck your money in the toilette because that's pretty much where all of it is going. Your bod can't process and soak in all that stuff at once, at least not adequately. It grabs some of it, but not the amount you'd probably like it to.

A low dose would be 5mg 2x/day. It's a good place to start if you find yourself sensitive towards supplements, or if you'd like to work your way up. ex: week 1 - 5mg 2x/day
week 2 - 10 mg 2x/day
week 3 - 10 mg + 15 mg
etc etc or however you feel comfortable. One should never exceed (I read up on this last night, and I can't remember if the max amount was 200 or 300 mg/day, either way, I wouldn't recommend going over 100, and if that is well tolerated, then go from there. Just google it and look up the dosages if it gets to that point).

This is just personal opinion, but I wouldn't do the time release capsules. I think it would make you more tired, and you're using it for a mood booster from what I understand - so I kind of see TR capsules as unnecessary because if you are dosing everyday, there's already a constant flow of the supplement in your blood...I dunno, just a thought...but to explain TR capsules as opposed to regular, just think of it this way - if you had 2 glasses of water, and you put an alka seltzer in one glass and put a tums in the other, the alka seltzer is kind of like the regular pills. It dissolves in the stomach and mixes with the water fairly quickly and is done. The tums is kinda like the TR capsule as it releases some right away but is slower at dissolving as to leave some more of the supplement to be absorbed slower at a later time. (That was probably a really stupid analogy but I couldn't think of anything better, lol).

You say you need to drink more coffee in the mornings? So does that mean you are having trouble w/energy? There are a few supplements that I take that work really well and I have recommended them to friends who complain of fatigue and they love them.
1) Bee Pollen - I take the capsules. Works great for energy. I don't personally take them everyday, I used to, now I take a few before I go for a run or a workout for extra energy.
2) Rhodiola - my favourite. I take the liquid form (tincture). It tastes nasty, but you just put an eyedropper full in a glass of water (or i just throw it in a shot glass with a little water to get it down) and it really works well for extra energy. I really recommend this stuff.
3) Local Honey - not only does eating honey from your area build up your immune system (especially if you have allergies) it gives you a quick, natural burst of energy. I get a glass of hot water, with a spoonfull of honey and a wedge of unwaxed organic lemon. Cleans your liver and gives you energy.

I don't know how you feel about bananas, but you could probably skip that whole magnesium dose if you replaced it with 2 bananas...just a suggestion. More healthy, probably cheaper.
 
Personally, I think the risk of serotonin syndrome from 5-htp is overrated. Realistically you can take drastically higher dosages than you've mentioned without harm. If you are interested, i would recommend mixing the 5-htp with St. John's Wort. Since sjw is a mild maoi it will help you get more out of the 5-htp and make it last longer. Plus, you can take much less of each due to the potentiation so you'll save money.
 
Littlepenguin,

I've been SSRI-free for quite some time, it's just the last couple of months I started feeling lethargic, unmotivated and generally annoyed with everything.
Perhaps I work too much - apart from a 9-5 office job, I study (correspondence) and do freelance work whenever I get a chance. So I'm feeling a bit worn-out atm.
I had a look around and 5htp seemed like a good option :)

I started drinking coffee again only recently. I try not to abuse it (so easy to get into the habit of drinking it constantly) - so it's maximum 2 morning coffees, not more than 3 per day.
So a bit of extra energy would be a bonus - your suggestions are much appreciated!
Rhodiola sounds interesting, I actually checked it out the other day. Was unsure, but now that somebody recommends it, I'll give it a go :)

I'm going to have to seriously rethink/space out all my supplements.
At the moment I take:
- flaxseed or fish oil caps
- calcium+vit D supplements (1-2 per day)
- magnesium + B6 (mag 325mg + B6 60mg)
I space them out fairly well. But when I add 5htp and rhodiola, I'll have to rethink the logistics ;)

Hehehe, that analogy so does not work for me. I live in Aus, alka seltzer and tums aren't the most common things here.
Thanks for trying though - I kind of get it now. I get that I don't really see much point in TR capsules.

The reason I started taking magnesium in the first place is due to sweating excessively during my work outs (bikram).
I used to get insane muscle cramps and high doses of magnesium really helped me out.
I feel great about bananas, my favourite fruit this summer - unfortunately I don't seem to get enough magnesium from them.



I looked up 5-htp and b6 because I never heard of 5-htp having to be taken with anything else and I found a Bluelight thread that would help http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/462602-Do-u-mix-b6-with-5-htp

I learned something new today :)

Hahaha, that thread is one of the things that got me confused in the first place :D
 
^^ what I got out of was b6 increases the metabolism of 5-htp. So look and see if the product you have already has B6 in it. GABA (5-htp) works wonders. I took it when I was w/d from Paxil. It works.
 
Personally, I think the risk of serotonin syndrome from 5-htp is overrated. Realistically you can take drastically higher dosages than you've mentioned without harm. If you are interested, i would recommend mixing the 5-htp with St. John's Wort. Since sjw is a mild maoi it will help you get more out of the 5-htp and make it last longer. Plus, you can take much less of each due to the potentiation so you'll save money.

Even if it is 'overrated,' the possibility still exists and being that this is a harm reduction website, it is most certainly worth mentioning.

I don't think your advice on mixing St. John's Wort and 5-HTP is very good. I put these two supplements in a drug interaction website and this is what was the result:
"Risk of drug interaction between St. John's Wort and 5-HTP - Major. Highly clinically significant. Avoid combinations; the risk of the interaction outweighs the benefit.
In general, the concomitant use of multiple serotonergic agents should be avoided if possible, or otherwise approached with caution if potential benefit is deemed to outweigh the risk. Patients should be closely monitored for symptoms of the serotonin syndrome during treatment. Particular caution is advised when increasing the dosages of these agents. The potential risk for serotonin syndrome should be considered even when administering serotonergic agents sequentially, as some agents may demonstrate a prolonged elimination half-life. For example, a 5-week washout period is recommended following use of fluoxetine before administering another serotonergic agent. If serotonin syndrome develops or is suspected during the course of therapy, all serotonergic agents should be discontinued immediately and supportive care rendered as necessary. Moderately ill patients may also benefit from the administration of a serotonin antagonist (e.g., cyproheptadine, chlorpromazine). Severe cases should be managed under consultation with a toxicologist and may require sedation, neuromuscular paralysis, intubation, and mechanical ventilation in addition to the other measures."

Why would you even want to risk this just to "save some money?" It's simply not worth it. There are dosage recommendations and warnings on drugs and supplements for a reason. Like when people take ibruprofin - I have NO idea where people got the idea that taking more than the listed dose was a good idea. All one is doing at that point is giving their liver a hell of a workout and giving yourself a higher chance of developing a stomach ulcer. If you take the dose and it still is not effecting you after one hour, some bottles suggest taking one more. Not 4 to start out with.

_____________________________________________________________

clearsky:

The reason I suggested bananas over taking your supplement is because vitamins and minerals that occur naturally in foods are better absorbed by the body than supplements. I could go on about this, instead I will insert a few links here about vitamins and supplements and how they are absorbed in your body. I think you would find them interesting.

"How Does Dietary Fat Help Us Absorb Vitamins?"http://health.howstuffworks.com/wellness/food-nutrition/vitamin-supplements/fat-absorb-vitamins.htm

'How Does The Body Absorb Vitamins?"http://health.howstuffworks.com/wellness/food-nutrition/vitamin-supplements/body-absorb-vitamins.htm


I don't think you need to rethink your supplement choices. You've got some essentials there. Calcium and D are very important, especially for a woman (I'm assuming you are a woman, for some reason...) However, I think you might want to take a closer look at your dietary choices. Even if it is redundant, your diet and water consumption has a huge amount to do with your energy levels. Even though coffee itself is very high in magnesium, it is also a diuretic, meaning that it essentially dehydrates you. I bet if you replaced that coffee with two glasses of water for each cup, you would have more energy and less cramping from your workouts. Cramping means your muscles are dehydrated and are starving for water. Dehydration, even the slightest bit, can slow your metabolism and drain your energy. Water water water. Can't say it enough. If you can, I suggest you try this - drink at LEAST 65-80 oz of water everyday for a week. (That's like two large sized bottles of Fuji water...not sure if you have that there, but it is just my personal frame of reference how I measure it...I think you all go by Liters there, so it would be like a little less than 2 litres?? I am bad with conversions, sorry...I digress). Anyhoo, after a week of this, you will have not only totally rehydrated your body, but you'll have flushed excess salt out, leaving you leaner and more energetic, and I would be willing to bet your cramps would have dramatically reduced, if not disappeared. It's truly amazing how our natural sources of nutrition help our bodies in such dramatic ways. Changing your diet to one that has less sugar (less because sugar causes spikes in your blood sugar levels, and when you crash, it makes you lethargic and tired, leaving your body to crave more sugar, and that's not good.) Foods that break down the slowest in your body are always the best for you. Whole grains, dark leafy greens (like swiss chard, which by the way is super high in magnesium), apples (although they contain sugar, the skin contains lots of fiber and breaks down slowly and is good for you), nuts (especially Brazil nuts, which some studies have found to be a mood booster, because they contain high doses of selenium) etc etc I could go on. To sum it up: your diet is probably one of the biggest, if not the biggest, contributor to your energy levels. You'll get out what you put into it.

Also, I don't think coffee is really bad for you. If you're apprehensive about more than 3 cups, but still want a boost? Drink tea. Especially of the green kind.

In reference to where to put the rhodiola in your day - I really wouldn't worry about it. There are no well documented reactions associated with rhodiola. So it should be fine whenever you choose to take it, no matter if you've just taken a supplement, or haven't in a few hours.
 
^^ what I got out of was b6 increases the metabolism of 5-htp. So look and see if the product you have already has B6 in it. GABA (5-htp) works wonders. I took it when I was w/d from Paxil. It works.

That's the idea that I got from the thread as well. The ebay listing doesn't state that there's any B6 in the 5-htp that I purchased.
I think I'll just space them out, as per Littlepenguin's suggestion.

____________________________________________________________________

Littlepenguin, now I'm worried - I found out today that a friend of mine is taking 100mg of 5-htp (together with B6, incidentally) and a dose of fluoxetine.
I typed them into a drug interaction website (thank you! I had no idea they existed until this thread!) and it said bad things.
So now I'm wondering how I can get her to stop..


Haha! What gave me away? Was it the girly nickname or the flower avatar thingie? ;)

Well, since I discovered nutrition, I believe my diet has improved immensely. I no longer eat meat and try to eat mostly organic.
I rarely consume added sugar, pretty much stick to fructose. I eat a lot of raw foods, soy milk and organic dairy.
I have always had a mad water habit (stemming from my party days.. oh dear). On workout days, I drink almost 3 litres of water (umm, 100 oz?).
Other days, about two thirds of that. I carry a water bottle with me everywhere (good habit to have in Aus).
I don't like drinking too much coffee for the very reason you mentioned - I start to feel dehydrated and dry-mouthed. And I'm a big tea fan.
I'm going to give brazil nuts a try :)

Thank you for the links! I have only recently started trying to figure out the nutritional aspect of food, instead of just randomly consuming it.
There is an abundance of information on the web, so links to good websites are much appreciated.
I am looking at purchasing some reading material on the subject but, once again, having difficulty sorting through it all.
 
Even if it is 'overrated,' the possibility still exists and being that this is a harm reduction website, it is most certainly worth mentioning.

I don't think your advice on mixing St. John's Wort and 5-HTP is very good. I put these two supplements in a drug interaction website and this is what was the result:
"Risk of drug interaction between St. John's Wort and 5-HTP - Major. Highly clinically significant. Avoid combinations; the risk of the interaction outweighs the benefit.
In general, the concomitant use of multiple serotonergic agents should be avoided if possible, or otherwise approached with caution if potential benefit is deemed to outweigh the risk. Patients should be closely monitored for symptoms of the serotonin syndrome during treatment. Particular caution is advised when increasing the dosages of these agents. The potential risk for serotonin syndrome should be considered even when administering serotonergic agents sequentially, as some agents may demonstrate a prolonged elimination half-life. For example, a 5-week washout period is recommended following use of fluoxetine before administering another serotonergic agent. If serotonin syndrome develops or is suspected during the course of therapy, all serotonergic agents should be discontinued immediately and supportive care rendered as necessary. Moderately ill patients may also benefit from the administration of a serotonin antagonist (e.g., cyproheptadine, chlorpromazine). Severe cases should be managed under consultation with a toxicologist and may require sedation, neuromuscular paralysis, intubation, and mechanical ventilation in addition to the other measures."

Why would you even want to risk this just to "save some money?" It's simply not worth it. There are dosage recommendations and warnings on drugs and supplements for a reason. Like when people take ibruprofin - I have NO idea where people got the idea that taking more than the listed dose was a good idea. All one is doing at that point is giving their liver a hell of a workout and giving yourself a higher chance of developing a stomach ulcer. If you take the dose and it still is not effecting you after one hour, some bottles suggest taking one more. Not 4 to start out with.

_____________________________________________________________

clearsky:

The reason I suggested bananas over taking your supplement is because vitamins and minerals that occur naturally in foods are better absorbed by the body than supplements. I could go on about this, instead I will insert a few links here about vitamins and supplements and how they are absorbed in your body. I think you would find them interesting.

"How Does Dietary Fat Help Us Absorb Vitamins?"http://health.howstuffworks.com/wellness/food-nutrition/vitamin-supplements/fat-absorb-vitamins.htm

'How Does The Body Absorb Vitamins?"http://health.howstuffworks.com/wellness/food-nutrition/vitamin-supplements/body-absorb-vitamins.htm


I don't think you need to rethink your supplement choices. You've got some essentials there. Calcium and D are very important, especially for a woman (I'm assuming you are a woman, for some reason...) However, I think you might want to take a closer look at your dietary choices. Even if it is redundant, your diet and water consumption has a huge amount to do with your energy levels. Even though coffee itself is very high in magnesium, it is also a diuretic, meaning that it essentially dehydrates you. I bet if you replaced that coffee with two glasses of water for each cup, you would have more energy and less cramping from your workouts. Cramping means your muscles are dehydrated and are starving for water. Dehydration, even the slightest bit, can slow your metabolism and drain your energy. Water water water. Can't say it enough. If you can, I suggest you try this - drink at LEAST 65-80 oz of water everyday for a week. (That's like two large sized bottles of Fuji water...not sure if you have that there, but it is just my personal frame of reference how I measure it...I think you all go by Liters there, so it would be like a little less than 2 litres?? I am bad with conversions, sorry...I digress). Anyhoo, after a week of this, you will have not only totally rehydrated your body, but you'll have flushed excess salt out, leaving you leaner and more energetic, and I would be willing to bet your cramps would have dramatically reduced, if not disappeared. It's truly amazing how our natural sources of nutrition help our bodies in such dramatic ways. Changing your diet to one that has less sugar (less because sugar causes spikes in your blood sugar levels, and when you crash, it makes you lethargic and tired, leaving your body to crave more sugar, and that's not good.) Foods that break down the slowest in your body are always the best for you. Whole grains, dark leafy greens (like swiss chard, which by the way is super high in magnesium), apples (although they contain sugar, the skin contains lots of fiber and breaks down slowly and is good for you), nuts (especially Brazil nuts, which some studies have found to be a mood booster, because they contain high doses of selenium) etc etc I could go on. To sum it up: your diet is probably one of the biggest, if not the biggest, contributor to your energy levels. You'll get out what you put into it.

Also, I don't think coffee is really bad for you. If you're apprehensive about more than 3 cups, but still want a boost? Drink tea. Especially of the green kind.

In reference to where to put the rhodiola in your day - I really wouldn't worry about it. There are no well documented reactions associated with rhodiola. So it should be fine whenever you choose to take it, no matter if you've just taken a supplement, or haven't in a few hours.


^ Actually, at this moment I am on both SJW and 5-htp. I have never experienced negative effects from this combination. I know a great deal of people who have used these supplements in conjunction as well, and some of them have even been instructed to do so by psychiatrists as an alternative to anti-depressants.

The reason I suggested combining them is that SJW acts similarly to both a natural SSRI and MAOI. Since the serotonin from 5-htp depletes quickly over the course of an hour, this is why i recommended prolonging the positive effects by preventing the reuptake. Also, if someone has experienced down-regulation in their serotonin receptors, this process may occur even faster. If SSRI's seemed necessary at a certain point, and without them, similar problems arise again, then perhaps the problem needs to be addressed in a more natural way. And yes...it would save money.

I was just trying to be helpful. I apologize for being unclear.
 
A low dose would be 5mg 2x/day. It's a good place to start if you find yourself sensitive towards supplements, or if you'd like to work your way up. ex: week 1 - 5mg 2x/day
week 2 - 10 mg 2x/day
week 3 - 10 mg + 15 mg
etc etc or however you feel comfortable. One should never exceed (I read up on this last night, and I can't remember if the max amount was 200 or 300 mg/day, either way, I wouldn't recommend going over 100, and if that is well tolerated, then go from there. Just google it and look up the dosages if it gets to that point).

I got the package today. I was expecting tablets for some reason, but I got 100mg caps. Trying to split them into 5mg doses is going to be impossible.
I think I'll go with 1 x 25mg dose before dinner for now.
 
TAKE A DOPAMINE SUPPLEMENT WITH 5-htp. Serotonin and Dopamine are metabolized by the same enzyme, so taking 5-htp w/o a Dopamine supplement for a few months causes dopamine depletion, and taking a Dopamine supplement w/o a serotonin supplement causes serotonin depletion. Taking either supplement alone nullifies the effects in the long-term. Hope this helps!

Source: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3415362/
 
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