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  • H&R Moderators: Captain.Heroin | cj | Stargazer | tathra

42 days off bupe's. feeling a little better.

martinbr

Greenlighter
Joined
May 11, 2014
Messages
38
Man what a journey this has been. Have felt like the night of the living dead. Walking around with absolutely no energy. Have been taking Tramadol at least once a day, sometimes two. 50mg. But find that since my body was so sensitive to the suboxone that I was starting to get the restless legs at night. So now I am cutting them in half. Have been going to NA .meetings for support. Going down to a gym tomorrow to sign up for exercise. Need to get some weight off. Hoping some day I will feel normal again. Ij, BTW, being 65 yes old isn't making it any easier...:)
 

Captain.Heroin

Sr. Moderator: H&R, Words
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Life has no meaning, yet I keep searching...
congratulations on feeling better so soon; I am much younger and felt awful for many months.

Thanks for sharing your success story :)
 

Captain.Heroin

Sr. Moderator: H&R, Words
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Life has no meaning, yet I keep searching...
I don't know if 50-100mg / day of tramadol is enough to cause serious opioid dependency. Just my suspicion.

Definitely taper off it would be my advice as well.
 

kickitnow

Bluelighter
Joined
Aug 23, 2016
Messages
75
Martinbr, I'm glad to hear you're feeling good.

yeah but they are coming off subs thus already dependent so still taking a opiate a will keep them in hell? my take is yes.
not to derail the thread, but could you please point me in the direction on some basic info on opiod receptor readjustment? I did read through the brain and addiction thread as best I could but I haven't got the best mind for science. I'd have PM'd but I've sent one in the past 3 hours. Thanks kindly.
 

martinbr

Greenlighter
Joined
May 11, 2014
Messages
38
Two years, 16mg a day. Started on suboxone sublingual but switched to bupe because of cost.
 

martinbr

Greenlighter
Joined
May 11, 2014
Messages
38
Vitamins, rest. Have been taking small doses of Tramadol and kolonipin, but starting to cut them in half. Just another addiction. Joining a gym today. And tons of water. .
 

absent minded

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Jun 4, 2003
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Seattle, WA
OP: It takes a long time. A realllllllly long time compared to other opiates. You aren't alone though. Sorry to say but when I'm coming off Suboxone if I've been on it for a while it takes almost 3 or 4 months before I'm baseline. I'm still having the suboxone wd sneezes 3 months later. But stay strong!!!!
 

absent minded

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Jun 4, 2003
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Seattle, WA
Oh also I just thought I'd add that even fuxing with Kratom once or twice will set you back quite a bit. Don't do ANYTHING that tickles your opiate receptors other than excercise!!!
 

martinbr

Greenlighter
Joined
May 11, 2014
Messages
38
OP: It takes a long time. A realllllllly long time compared to other opiates. You aren't alone though. Sorry to say but when I'm coming off Suboxone if I've been on it for a while it takes almost 3 or 4 months before I'm baseline. I'm still having the suboxone wd sneezes 3 months later. But stay strong!!!!
I am sneezing about twelve times a day. If I would of known how long it would have taken to get off suboxone, I think I might have just tried to taper off norcos....
 

2dark2see

Bluelighter
Joined
Aug 28, 2016
Messages
74
Martinbr did you do any kind of taper from the subs? I've been taking 4mg suboxone for just about 3 weeks to help with ending my oxy habit. But I'm planning on doing a quick taper bc I'm really worried about becoming dependent on the subs... I've got about 22 of the 8mg strips so it's not like I've got to stop in the next few days or anything like that but I'm trying to avoid being in the situation that you're describing.... have you found that urges to use opiates have increased since you've been off the subs?
I'm really glad that you're starting to feel better - way to go!
 

martinbr

Greenlighter
Joined
May 11, 2014
Messages
38
Martinbr did you do any kind of taper from the subs? I've been taking 4mg suboxone for just about 3 weeks to help with ending my oxy habit. But I'm planning on doing a quick taper bc I'm really worried about becoming dependent on the subs... I've got about 22 of the 8mg strips so it's not like I've got to stop in the next few days or anything like that but I'm trying to avoid being in the situation that you're describing.... have you found that urges to use opiates have increased since you've been off the subs?
I'm really glad that you're starting to feel better - way to go!
I quit taking subs on 8mg. Not the smartest plan, but I was pissed, because my RN at the Clinic was giving me a hard time and wanting me to start tapering down because she thought I had brady cardia. Slow heart beat. I did! for the subs. Now my heart pulse is in within normal ranges. I know it was for my own good, but it wasn't my decision to make. Everyone at the clinic was great except for this new bitch that starting playing doctor and so I just decided to get off the shit so I wouldn't have to deal with her anymore....
 

bukweat

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Jun 13, 2013
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565
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between a rock and a hard place
Man that's some cajones right there. I jumped at .5mg and even with clonidine and gabapentin it was the longest till I started feeling myself again. Mostly mental but shit-fire I came close to caving. This was my third attempt.
I'm 61a so I guess an old dog can learn new tricks. Congratulations Martin.
 

Jabberwocky

Frumious Bandersnatch
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Nov 3, 1999
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Looking-Glass Land
I quit taking subs on 8mg. Not the smartest plan, but I was pissed, because my RN at the Clinic was giving me a hard time and wanting me to start tapering down because she thought I had brady cardia. Slow heart beat. I did! for the subs. Now my heart pulse is in within normal ranges. I know it was for my own good, but it wasn't my decision to make. Everyone at the clinic was great except for this new bitch that starting playing doctor and so I just decided to get off the shit so I wouldn't have to deal with her anymore....
It is actually possible that it was the naloxone that was causing your cardiac issues as opposed to the buprenorphine, though it probably wasn't helping either.

People often don't realize the side effect prolonged use of opioid antagonists can cause. I find it particularly frustrating because the naloxone in Suboxone type formulations of buprenorphine essentially serves no purposes other than marketing and pleasing the regulatory systems. It doesn't prevent you from getting high from misusing the medication, and it doesn't prevent you from overcoming the medications blockade effects (that is primarily the buprenorphine, not the naloxone). I certainly always found buprenorphine only formulations preferable over buprenorphine+naloxone versions.

OP: It takes a long time. A realllllllly long time compared to other opiates. You aren't alone though. Sorry to say but when I'm coming off Suboxone if I've been on it for a while it takes almost 3 or 4 months before I'm baseline. I'm still having the suboxone wd sneezes 3 months later. But stay strong!!!!
It is likewise worth tempering the observation that it can take a long time to recovery from long term buprenorphine dependency with the fact it commonly takes under two weeks for the majority of acute withdrawal to subside, commonly resolving after a week or two longer.

Though it was far from the most ideal scenario, I jumped off at 4mgs (I started at 8mg, went up to 12mg, then down to 8mg and 4mg). Compared to the kinds of worst case scenario horror stories you hear, I only had to deal with relatively mild to moderate symptoms of acute withdrawal. They only lasted for two two to three weeks, deal with some relatively moderate insomnia, anxiety and GI discomfort. It was infinitely less severe than what I'd imagined, certainly much easier than my experience kicking a full agonist like hydrocodone or heroin.

The physical symptoms of acute withdrawal (the insomnia, torpor and GI issues) only really lasted two weeks, with only the anxiety, a slight malaise and minor GI system issues (loose stools, but not full on runs) continuing for a little while longer. The psychological issues of kicking lasted maybe a month or two, but that was just a general feeling of depression or dis-ease.

What I'm trying to get across is that expectations about opioid withdrawal, more so than ever for longer acting opioids like buprenorphine and methadone, can be a very double edged blade. If you have reasonable ones rooted in empirical evidence, they are very helpful, allowing you to properly plan ahead for what's to come and maintain a balanced perspective.

However, when based on the worst cased scenarios of horror stories and similarly anecdotal evidence, they can actually created a kind of prolonged somaticized experience of withdrawal that one would not have to deal with had one had a healthier perspective on what was going on. The stress and worry and uncertainty of what is to come can actually increase the acute and post acute symptoms both in duration and severity.

Even though I had resigned myself for the worst with coming off buprenorphine, keeping an open mind about things and checking in with myself regularly over the course of each day made things a lot more managible and less unpleasant (though I will admit it was not pleasure ride or walk in the park). When I came off an even longer methadone maintenance treatment I was much better prepared with my more accurate understand of the mind-body's early recovery process. If I'd believed everything I'd heard about coming off methadone I should have essentially been in hell for six months. Yet that experience was basically a walk in the park. Though it wasn't easy, it also wan't at all unmanageable, and I was able to take reasonable, practical steps each day to improve the experience.

Things are so often nothing more than what we make of them. How we think of them plays a big part in how we address them, so having a level head about things is essential to a managible detox.

Oh also I just thought I'd add that even fuxing with Kratom once or twice will set you back quite a bit. Don't do ANYTHING that tickles your opiate receptors other than excercise!!!
While it certainly can lead to habituation, dependency and falling back into the harmful patterns of earlier substance use, it will not necessarily cause the kinds of problems occasional use of traditional full agonist opioids will like codeine, hydrocodone or oxycodone. Many people find a period of kratom maintenance necessary at maintaining sobriety after prolonged buprenorphine use.
 
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