4-fluoromethamphetamine

[Psychonauticunt]

I got some of this as a sample recently and ended up throwing it away. At low doses I found the experience weirdly sedating. At higher doses there was good stimulation, but also a strange sort of euphoria that I found very distracting, thus negating the whole point of stimulation for me: i.e., to cheerfully and energetically go about my day. Plus when I was up I found that I didn't want to come down, which is usually not a problem for me with other euphoric drugs, but which led to more redosing than I was comfortable with. It's not without its charms, and I didn't feel any negative side effects (in particular, no gnashing of teeth, which is a common effect for me), but overall I just didn't like the way the thing behaved. 2-FA is much more my speed.

Same here. Also, after a few days of use I got a mephedrone-ish unhealthy, depressed feeling for a couple days. Didn't like it. Out of these RC speeds, I have found 4-fluoroamphetamine to be the best. Beats any speed I've had otherwise because of reasonably long duration, practically no adverse side effects or comedown, decent stimulation, some euphoria, some empathogenic properties.

 

[Imperial Tacohead]

I've tried three of the FAs now, and they're very interesting in how different they are. 4-FMA is definitely not for me, although it's not without its charms for someone less anxious about developing bad habits. 4-FA is great and has multi-dimensional potential: small doses give a clean, long-lasting, mildly euphoric stimulation, while high doses take on entactogenic qualities. 2-FA is so mild, so clean, and so non-conducive to abuse (since there's no real "high" to chase, and the comedown is so gentle that you don't notice it until you find yourself yawning) that I'm surprised that it hasn't found some kind of clinical use. As soon as I get my hands on some 3-FA I'll write a big ol' trip report on the whole series and their differing subjective effects.

 

[Chips]

I re-tried 4-FMA at low dosage: 10 mg.
It was good. Very focused, very clean and very calm high which is quite rare from a stim !
One of the best stim high i got from an RCs. On top with 2-FA,. better than racemic amph.

however i felt some light headache after the middle of the high. And i wasn't high like a sky rocket, but i didn't feel like i would try at higher dosage.

that's strange 2-fa hasn't been more available on the market, it's so praise by the people who tried it.

 

[Torabora]

yea 4-FMA is quiet potent, I tried 50mg insufflated (which burns like hell, exactly like 4-fa) and was awake for 20h+ also I got huge pupils from it which was kinda strange because I didnt felt "that" euphoric and the huge pupils stayed also for arround 20h (even stranger ^^) If I try this again then at a lower dose (20mg or so) so it seems to share the same propertys of amphe<-->methamphe

 

[ManRider]

... 2-FA is so mild, so clean, and so non-conducive to abuse (since there's no real "high" to chase, and the comedown is so gentle that you don't notice it until you find yourself yawning) that I'm surprised that it hasn't found some kind of clinical use. As soon as I get my hands on some 3-FA I'll write a big ol' trip report on the whole series and their differing subjective effects.

I've done 2-FA a fair amount and I agree with you about everything except that its non-conducive to abuse. Less than many other stims, sure, but I think it still is.

Granted, the come down is pretty mild and does not leave you jonesing to re-dose like some other euphoric stims do (which is one thing that really shines about it). But, I do find the euphoria it induces to be substantial while not exactly strong or in your face.

 

[thesomoan]

How does it's toxicity compare to methamphetamine, or even just straight amphetamine? I see the addition of a fluoro group as having the potential to increase the number of oxidant metabolites considering that fluorine is among the strongest oxidants in the world. There are very few drugs that rival meth in terms of damage to ones body but this certainly has potential. On the other hand, MDMA, and 2-FA are both less toxic than methamphetamine and amphetamine respectively so some concrete evidence on toxicity would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Torabora]

well fluorine is only one of the strongest oxidants when it is in its elemental form not already bound to other atoms/molecules. The metabolites will contain fluoro group yes but that must not made them more harmful to the body (well atleast it could but there is not enough research done on this, but only because there is a fluor does not make them toxic there are alot of pharmaceuticals containing fluorine groups for example)

 

[ebola?]

On the other hand, MDMA, and 2-FA are both less toxic than methamphetamine and amphetamine respectively

Could you please elaborate on what type of toxicity is reduced by adding the 2-fluoro substitution to amphetamine? Plain amphetamine isn't particularly neurotoxic to begin with...

well fluorine is only one of the strongest oxidants when it is in its elemental form not already bound to other atoms/molecules. The metabolites will contain fluoro group yes but that must not made them more harmful to the body (well atleast it could but there is not enough research done on this, but only because there is a fluor does not make them toxic there are alot of pharmaceuticals containing fluorine groups for example)

Yup. Come hell or high water, that fluorine is staying on the ring, and thus should not spur concerns over increased oxidative stress.

ebola

 

[thesomoan]

ebola- amphetamine does certainly have some oxidative damage to seratonin receptors while 2-fluoroamphetamine (perhaps because of the strength with which the fluorine stays bonded as you have all informed me) is known to produce fewer oxidative metabolites. I agree amphetamine is not extremely toxic but it is certainly not non-toxic. Alright I guess I was wrong about the fluorine as an oxidative agent but I still see great potential for toxicity in any substituted amphetamine so I would be wary about trying this drug until someone posted some information about its believed toxicity.

 

[ebola?]

ebola- amphetamine does certainly have some oxidative damage to seratonin receptors

Amphetamine's affinity at 5ht is so low that this is irrelevant except with extreme doses or concurrent use of 5ht releasers.

2-fluoroamphetamine (perhaps because of the strength with which the fluorine stays bonded as you have all informed me) is known to produce fewer oxidative metabolites.

Maybe. I think you're onto something, in that the toxic metabolites that form tend to result from ring-hydroxylation.

ebola

 

[Torabora]

well amphe is to a small degreee converted to Alpha-Methyldopamine which is a neurotoxine, how the fluoro compunds play in here I dont know maybe 2-fluoro-alpha-methyldopamine would be less toxic? but who is saying that 2-fluoro-amph is less toxic then amphe anyway I dont think that there is any research done in that direction?

 

[thesomoan]

fluoro-alpha-methyldopamine is less toxic because it is slightly less reactive. I agree that there is very little research about this. My point of my original post was not to prove that 4-FMA is extremely toxic but rather see if anyone had any idea of its toxicity because I was unable to find any data, and I personally think that substituted amphetamines have a high potential for being both destructive and habit forming which is a bad combination.
It is more probable that 4-FMA is toxic than not because of the subjective reports of intense hangovers, next day depression, implying seratonin or dopamine depletion which is usually indicative of damage to their respective terminals.
I know very little about routes of metabolization within the body, could someone with some expertise in that field shed some light on the suspected metabolites of 4-FMA?

 

[Torabora]

well to some degree it should follow the metaboliaztion of (meth)amphetamine only para hydroxation is not possible. So I would say n-demethylation, 4-F-norephedrine (~2% ), deamination to 4-f-phenylacetone (and further oxidation to 4-f-benzoic acid which will then be excreted with the urine as 4-F-hippuric acid) and a large part will leave the body unchanged (ammount is different for the pH of the urine and lays between 30-60% for plain amph).

All of the above is just taken from the metabolization of plain amphetamine so I dont know if it still fits as a substrate for the corresponding enzymes but I would say that this is likely.

Toxicity will come frome the effect of the drug itself and only to a small degree from its metabolites (well okay again just a hypothesis ^^ ).

 

[thesomoan]

what kind of toxicity would it exhibit then? could one expect damage directly to dopamine/seratonin terminal sites?

 

[sekio]

Any releasing agent will damage neurons. MDMA, Amphetamine, meth... they're all neurotoxic, and 4-FA would be too. To what degree is unknown.

 

[naginnudej]

I recently received a stipend of material advertised as 4-FMA from a previously trusted source; product is an orderless, white, crystalline powder that is fully soluble in water. Marquis tests indicates presence of amphetamine.

Because my search for consistent reports on the threshold, functional and recreational doses was effectively inclonclusive, I proceeded with due caution. Note that a slight tolerance was present from a 50mg dose of d-amp ingested the previous day (this was my first time using any amphetamine or stimulant in almost 2 weeks. I'm also a stimulant hardhead).

20mg was loaded into rig with intention of a staggered administration of the dose while intensity of effects were determined. 5, 10, and then 20mg were uninspiring.

55mg loaded and slowly administered. An underwhelming rush was detected; soon after I became aware of a slightly uncomfortable increased heartrate and a very subtle undertone of stimulation. Heartrate stabilized within an hour.

Perhaps this substance isn't most effective when IV'd. I'm gonna let my tolerance subside before diving into oral and plugged in the next couple weeks.

 

[pofacedhoe]

An underwhelming rush was detected; soon after I became aware of a slightly uncomfortable increased heartrate and a very subtle undertone of stimulation. Heartrate stabilized within an hour.

Perhaps this substance isn't most effective when IV'd. .

or maybe the effects on dopamine were masked by your previous days amphetamine use

how many drugs do you know that are less effective when used intravenously apart from poorly soluble benzo type drugs

 

[naginnudej]

Note the inconclusive tone of my word choice. 'Perhaps' being the key word. I'm not giving up the needle mate...just giving it a rest for a little while. It has a tendency to make one's tolerance skyrocket. I'll be back for more after I become a bit more familiar.

I clearly mentioned in the post that tolerance was potential issue, but this would not be the first time I have intravenously administered amphetamines two days in a row (doses were closer then as well) and produced a similar affect with only a negligible dose increase. Either way I agree with your second statement so we can leave it at that.

I should have made it more clear that I was not in any way firmly rooted in my results. I wasn't about to go shouting it to the world. apologies mate

 

[pofacedhoe]

Note the inconclusive tone of my word choice. 'Perhaps' being the key word. I'm not giving up the needle mate...just giving it a rest for a little while. It has a tendency to make one's tolerance skyrocket. I'll be back for more after I become a bit more familiar.

I clearly mentioned in the post that tolerance was potential issue, but this would not be the first time I have intravenously administered amphetamines two days in a row (doses were closer then as well) and produced a similar affect with only a negligible dose increase. Either way I agree with your second statement so we can leave it at that.

I should have made it more clear that I was not in any way firmly rooted in my results. I wasn't about to go shouting it to the world. apologies mate

thing is that 4fluoro amphetamine had a wayyyy weaker rush than speed, almost none at all

 

[naginnudej]

I've injected a considerable amount of 4-FA (not 4-FMA) and would say it's a bit lackluster but not completely devoid of value. ymmv

What doses are you talking about?