• Psychedelic Drugs Welcome Guest Posting RulesBluelight Rules
  • PD Moderators: Cream Gravy? | Transform | Vastness | Xorkoth
  • Bluelight HOT THREADS
  • Let's Welcome Our NEW MEMBERS!

4-aco-dmt redundancies

Delsyd

Bluelight Crew
Joined
Jul 20, 2006
Messages
9,679
Location
¸.♥´´¯`•.¸¸.ღƸ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ
Anyone want to speculate as to how stable this compound is.

I know usually the acetoxy tends to be more stable than its HO counterpart. Same with 4 aco dmt?
Also the stuff thats been floating around lately is it the fumarate, freebase or hcl?

thanks.
 

fizzacyst

Bluelight Crew
Joined
Jan 27, 2003
Messages
4,921
I've seen two batches offered, the fumarate and the oxalate. The fumarate seems to be the most common by far from what I've seen (though I may not be seeing very much, I don't know).
 

djfriendly

Bluelighter
Joined
Feb 2, 2002
Messages
1,447
Delsyd said:
Anyone want to speculate as to how stable this compound is.

I know usually the acetoxy tends to be more stable than its HO counterpart. Same with 4 aco dmt?
Also the stuff thats been floating around lately is it the fumarate, freebase or hcl?

thanks.

As stated, the fumerate salt is "going around," I hadn't known the oxalate had been made also. It is extremely stable, and the concensus, from what I've seen, is that it was chosen for this reason. An unstable form of 4-AcO-DMT would readily degrade to 4-HO-DMT, and would thus contain amounts of a scheduled chemical.
 

yoyoman

Bluelighter
Joined
Jun 11, 2006
Messages
285
Even now, without the aid of any drug, I can feel the back of my head where the pain (more like pressure than pain) is located: It is slightly above my right ear and back a little, and if I place my fingers on the location I can feel my pulse.

You know what.. i've thought i've gotten a *slight* headache.. i think in the same area, and usually.. mushrooms or DMT.. KILLS a headache.. which is strange..

the acetoxy group definitely changes the experience, i'm wondering.. synthetic psilocin.. 4-HO-DMT fumarate.. how stable would this be?

I thought I read that the psilocin extracted from mushrooms may degrade because of some other stuff in the mushrooms.. but what about synthetic? this 4-aco-dmt fumarate seems *very* stable..

I have heard word that 4-AcO and HO-NMT fumarate may become available also.. interesting, because i've always really really wondered about baeocystin.. and if the PO group is too polar to get into the brain, i'd think 4-HO-NMT would be probably the active compound.. and well, i've had just those couple occasional bad ass mushroom trips that were just out of this world better.. so hopefully 4-aco/ho-NMT will become available..

I have put some 4-aco-mipt (hcl? fb? dunno..) in a vial of water..and within hours the color would change.. within days, completely dark. I don't think this 4-aco-dmt fumarate going around will do the same.. maybe eventually.. but seems damn stable..
 

DivineMomenT

Bluelighter
Joined
Feb 9, 2006
Messages
710
Location
Here
Your experience with this compound tells you that it is *very* stable, so do you think it would store in distilled h2o very well? I found out that 4-ho-mipt doesnt mix well with water the hard way. It started turning brown within an hour or so and was black a few days later. It rapidly degraded during the week. A dose of 25mg felt more like 15mg.

do you think the 4-aco-fumurate going around will store well in solution. Some tryptamines do.......some tryptamines dont, but it would be nice to dilute it 4mg/ml or so for fast, easy, and accurate dosing.
 

djfriendly

Bluelighter
Joined
Feb 2, 2002
Messages
1,447
^ Since no one seems to know yet, if you have some, perhaps you could put just a tiny amount in some water and observe the results? Someone's got to be first! ;)
 

4-acetoxy-dmt mule

Greenlighter
Joined
Sep 1, 2006
Messages
15
First, thanks for all the replies. I will do the water experiment on 10mg right now (as I have an adequate amount that I can "waste" some for such an experiment).

Also, I received a PM from someone that I cannot respond to because it says "Only able to PM staff with bluelighter status" -- Pretty silly for a staff to message me and I am unable to answer back.

But if you are reading this, the answer is no. Sorry.
 

DivineMomenT

Bluelighter
Joined
Feb 9, 2006
Messages
710
Location
Here
Thank you for experimenting 4-aco mule. Let us know if the color of the water changes in the next few days. Mixing with grain alcohol would probably be ideal but if this experiment works would it be safe to assume 4-aco-dmt fumurate will stay stable in a grain alcohol solution?
 

djfriendly

Bluelighter
Joined
Feb 2, 2002
Messages
1,447
"Greenlighters" do not have the ablity to send PMs except to staff members. When you've got some more posts you can send PMs to regular members

Pretty pathetic for people to PM brand new members asking for drugs (sorry for reading between the lines).
 

4-acetoxy-dmt mule

Greenlighter
Joined
Sep 1, 2006
Messages
15
Dj: You read very well.

DMT: When you say grain alcohol I assume you mean 190+ proof, correct? I don't have any on hand, but if necessary I can pick a small bottle of Everclear up tomorrow to complete the experiment (or do it all over again but with grain alcohol). Just let me know if you want me to.
 

DivineMomenT

Bluelighter
Joined
Feb 9, 2006
Messages
710
Location
Here
yea by grain alcohol I mean everclear, which is pretty much the easiest thing to obtain other than vodka or another lower proof alcohol.

That would be great if you could do the experiment with both everclear and distilled water. Information on the solubility of this compound is limited so many people would benefit from your experiment. Liquid dosing is a convenient way to measure out doses but I found out the hard way that not all research chemicals store well in solution.

Thank you for running this experiment. Let us all know how the results turn out.
 

4-acetoxy-dmt mule

Greenlighter
Joined
Sep 1, 2006
Messages
15
Something else that has been bothering me is the lack of "popping 3D" visuals that I'm so used to seeing, and that I enjoy so much, on shrooms. Do you know what I'm talking about? The psychedelic rolling visual wall and then on top of that the 3D (usually digital looking or chromed up or something) visuals pop out and rotate around.

I can't get those 3D digital dream visuals on 4-ACO-DMT thus far, and would like to try perhaps doing a hydrolisis before ingesting. Any easy way with common household stuff? Again, I am no chemist.

Edit: Or perhaps I just haven't taken enough yet? If you know what I'm talking about with the 3D visual thing can you confirm that these start to appear as you increase the dose? I've done 17mg oral and 8mg railed but neither produced the intense visuals I equate with mushrooms (though the body trip was pretty intense). Others who took 17mg orally with me also commented on this.

Edit2: For me personally, I must have intense visuals on a shroom trip, or it is a waste and unenjoyable because I go completely introspective and paranoid about the body trip. It truly sucks, but shrooms is the only psychedelic drug that I do this with (and I've done most of the good ones).

Edit3: Further research on shroomery (unfortunately through simple discussions about visual types) leads me to strongly believe that it is baeocystin that causes the intense 3D visuals I am thinking of, simply because it matches my own real life experiences. Only one batch of mushrooms, ONE I've ever had, gave me intense 3D digital chrome visuals like I described above, and they were a strain supposedly heavier in baeocystin (Cambodia, I think). I'd like more information on this, of any sort.
 
Last edited:

4-acetoxy-dmt mule

Greenlighter
Joined
Sep 1, 2006
Messages
15
After even more research, I have now decided that if indeed Baeocystin and Psilocybin cannot pass through the BBB then the only conclusion is that 4-ACO-DMT is indeed actually active in that form before hydrolisis, and is a (slightly) less enjoyable cousin of Psilocin. Best way to test for me would to be do a pre-ingestion hydrolisis conversion of the acetate.

Instructions, anyone? I'll do it, I just need to know how. I do not have access to NaOH at this time, so if it is required, this experiment will have to wait quite a while.
 

hugo24

Bluelighter
Joined
Mar 23, 2005
Messages
867
I can imagine the hydrolysis also working with Sodiumcarbonate.Or,with Hydrochloric acid.I remember when I dissolved Miprocetyl.HCl in MeOH, after only a few minutes,several % free phenol got apparent in HPLC.Pretty labile this acetyl.
 

4-acetoxy-dmt mule

Greenlighter
Joined
Sep 1, 2006
Messages
15
morninggloryseed said:

You downplay the difficulty of growing mushrooms, and I speak as someone who has failed and succeeded on a variety of teks from PFtek to straw log. I've been there, done that. Mushrooms are not easy to grow, and in many situations growing them is simply not an option due to security, space, or environment.

I'm sorry you do not like mushrooms, but I do. A great deal. The magical visuals I get with the real thing is all that is missing from psilacetin to make it near indistinguishable from the real thing, and like someone posted earlier in this thread, pre-ingestion hydrolisis may do just that.

Don't fault me for trying to improve the experience, I did nothing to you.
 

yoyoman

Bluelighter
Joined
Jun 11, 2006
Messages
285
Well as in an earlier post, i was able to do it with a tiny bit of NaOH - if baking soda may work (also can't you convert baking soda/sodium bicarb to a stronger base by putting some dissolved in water, microwaving it / boiling the fuck out of it - making it sodium carbonate???).

Well, anyway, when I used NaOH (tinnnnny bit, but more than enough..) i only used a very small bit of water, in a clear class thing, i suppose you could put a little 4-aco-dmt in water, add sodium carbonate (from the store, or if boiling water/bicarb will convert?), in some kind of small clear class container and hold the solution (all dissolved, of course) over a lighter flame.. let it get to boiling or just under.. keep at it and see if you see the clear solution turn blueish..)?

When I used NaOH, ...think i used ~20mg NaOH dissolved into the water then added 30mg 4-aco-dmt fumarate.. shook it up..it dissolves easily, i had an alcohol lamp going but there was enough NaOH really didnt need heat.. started slowly turning blue - but.. if you don't have any NaOH if a weaker base would work, or acid, well... heat is your friend, i guess? someone else could post something better about this..


-- Oh, i suppose once you see it start turning blue, thats when you'd wanna dump the solution into some juice / something acetic to kill that extra base / salt it again before, well, giving it to your rat.
-------
Edit3: Further research on shroomery (unfortunately through simple discussions about visual types) leads me to strongly believe that it is baeocystin that causes the intense 3D visuals I am thinking of, simply because it matches my own real life experiences. Only one batch of mushrooms, ONE I've ever had, gave me intense 3D digital chrome visuals like I described above, and they were a strain supposedly heavier in baeocystin (Cambodia, I think). I'd like more information on this, of any sort.

I've had JUST a couple mind blowing mushroom experiences (don't know what kind of mushrooms they were) where they were just...just.. so good that i know it wasn't just psilocin/cybin.. Someone told me 4-HO and AcO-NMT are being made also, along with the *-DMT, fumarate salts, so i'm just as curious as you, i'd go for the 4-ho-nmt just because that acetoxy group chances the experience, but if baeocystin has to turn into 4-ho-nmt before being active well, yeah, my curiousity is up... Baeocystin supposedly has been taken by itself and said to be fully active (or whatever) but no real details of the experience. (MGS mentioned this somewhere). I just wonder how stable 4-ho-nmt/dmt fumarate salts would be, well.... hey.. if they're stored correctly..

----
When I did the NaOH/4-aco-dmt/blue thingie, I over did it, letting it get darkish blue then more like a green/blue tint. The experience was way different, but whatever oxidised products produced by my over-doing it were probably active (well like i said i posted about it in an earlier post)) making the experience even more odd (could tell it was a mix of compounds working). I'm one to think that baeocystin and maybe even small amounts of others (4-ho-tryptamine?), mainly baeo.. really make for those bad ass shroom trips though.. :)
 
Last edited:

Morninggloryseed

Bluelight Crew
Joined
Aug 22, 2000
Messages
13,786
Location
Semi Retired
You downplay the difficulty of growing mushrooms, and I speak as someone who has failed and succeeded on a variety of teks from PFtek to straw log. I've been there, done that. Mushrooms are not easy to grow, and in many situations growing them is simply not an option due to security, space, or environment.

I guess ‘easy’ is relative. Please don’t think I am insulting you, but you are definitely in the minority by stating growing mushrooms (cubensis, by PK tek) is hard. But that is beside the point. As far as space/security…you can grow a boatload of mushrooms in a space that is 1ftX1ftX2ft high. The only way I can conceive that security is an issue is if you live with people that would not approve. If that case, I agree…one should not be growing mushrooms. However, most of the time if you live with someone who would object to mushrooms being present, they would generally object to you having compounds mailed from China to that residence as well. And they would probably object to you using the residence to experiment with such compounds mailed from China. So that argument is self-defeating.

I managed to get a good yield of mushrooms my first try. I used a PC and did my injections in the oven (no glove box at my first run.) I spent months researching at shroomery before I grew, and did a lot of chatting on their IRC room (with both experienced and new growers) and the general consensus is that growing mushrooms (PF Tek method with cubensis spores) is pretty damn easy, sinfully so, but I guess not easy enough for everyone. In the end, this is way off topic.

Don't fault me for trying to improve the experience, I did nothing to you.

I am certainly not ‘faulting’ you for anything. I did not have anyone specific in mind when I wrote my post; it was certainly not directed at you.

As for improving on the experience…I can understand where you are coming from because (as I mentioned) I am not a huge fan of mushrooms…iprocin is a far better experience for me. But I still stand by what I say…people should appreciate each compound for what they are…rather than trying to recreate something else. Psilacetin is not mushrooms, or mushrooms in a pill. It is psilacetin and (as you noted yourself) will not provide the mushroom experience. Mushrooms are a living entity. Their psilocin content is not the whole picture of the experience they provide.

MGS speaks the truth (except for miprocin, which is just lovely)

I never said miprocin wasn't lovely. I said miprocin was too similar to the mushroom experience for me to find it a winner. I enjoy iprocin so much because it is so vastly different from mushrooms. Miprocin was a fantastic psychedelic. I just didn't see enough that made it stand out from the type of experience the mushroom gives. Ethocin, on the other hand, I would term as not being lovely. That material had a very unpleasant mental and body load.

Baeocystin supposedly has been taken by itself and said to be fully active (or whatever) but no real details of the experience. (MGS mentioned this somewhere).

In J. Ott's Pharmocotheon, he mentioned personal experience with baeocystin. All he said however was that it was entheogenic at 10mg.
 
Last edited:

boywonder

Bluelighter
Joined
Apr 19, 2005
Messages
322
4-acetoxy-dmt mule said:
You downplay the difficulty of growing mushrooms, and I speak as someone who has failed and succeeded on a variety of teks from PFtek to straw log. I've been there, done that. Mushrooms are not easy to grow, and in many situations growing them is simply not an option due to security, space, or environment.

I'm sorry you do not like mushrooms, but I do. A great deal. The magical visuals I get with the real thing is all that is missing from psilacetin to make it near indistinguishable from the real thing, and like someone posted earlier in this thread, pre-ingestion hydrolisis may do just that.

Don't fault me for trying to improve the experience, I did nothing to you.


Growing mushrooms is pretty fucking easy. Yes you can mess it up very badly but even someone without any experiences at all can grow a decent batch.

Have to say that I agree with MGS. I've experienced the holy hell out mushrooms and don't really care to go back there anytime soon. Not that I didn't like it, its just that I feel that I've already learned the spectrum of knowledge and experience that mushrooms has to offer.

The subtle differences are what makes these different chems so appealing to me.
 
Top