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3-HO-PCE fumarate

TheAppleCore

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Attempting to salt some 3-HO-PCE freebase for the purpose of water solubility / liquid measurement. Is there any compelling reason not to use fumaric acid?
 

TheAppleCore

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Sadly I do not have access to hydrobromic acid. I guess I'll try the citrate then. That worked fairly well for making NBOMe solutions.

Thanks for the swift reply though. :)
 
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TheAppleCore

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Citrate easily went into solution @ ~10 mg / mL, 3-HO-PCE citrate / DH2O. Now all I can hope is that the citrate is reasonably stable, in which case I should be good to go.
 

TheAppleCore

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^ Conducting some cautious and uneventful trials at the moment. Once I'm able to get anything noteworthy out of the chemical, I will definitely post a TR.
 

Ligaturd

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I am very curious about this compound, i've only been able to find a report on drugs-forum that had less than stellar results within the speculated active dose...
 

TheAppleCore

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I have a request, for anyone who has handled any freebase ACH, or 3-HO-PCP analog -- please describe the appearance, consistency, and any other physical properties that you observed.

I know that MXE freebase is an oily liquid. It would help me to know what 3-MeO-PCP/E freebase looks like, or something more structurally similar to 3-HO-PCE.
 

TheAppleCore

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In addition, is there a professional lab I can send this supposed "3-HO-PCE" to be tested? I have my doubts of its identity.

Or, at the very least, I'd like to be able to perform some kind of tests of my own which would at least confirm that the compound in question is a member of the arylcyclohexylamine family. E.g., can I perform a melting point, or solubility test, to help confirm or deny my suspicions?

EDIT: The supplier sent me, via email, supposed NMR & HPLC test results, from the manufacturer of the batch of 3-HO-PCE. Would anyone with more knowledge be willing to take a look at the data, to see if anything is fishy?
 
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sekio

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You can post it, but it's (in theory) easy to fake data for a NMR or HPLC scan. And as far as I know 3-ho-pce is very poorly characterised... You'd have to do somen real digging in the literature to come across a m.p. or something like that.

If you like you can blank out the identifying details about the vendor and post the data here, there's a few people that frequent the boards that have some clue as to how to read 1H-NMR scans. That's probably best.

What you really need is to have it independently analysed by a reliable lab, preferably with a GC/MS or LC/MS and a NMR. I know there are a few like DanceSafe or EcstacyData that might do analysis but they charge $$ and sometimes lack standards for things like this.

I have a very strong feelin that from the purported strength of these 3-OH PCx's that what is on the market right now is all fake.
 

TheAppleCore

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Here is the data (the vendor/manufacturer is not identified):

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/40095270/3-(1-(ethylamino)cyclohexyl)phe.pdf
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/40095270/HPLC-1.pdf

Either this stuff is bunk, or 3-HO-PCE happens to be an incredibly idiosyncratic PCE derivative, which: 1) has zero pharmacological activity, at doses an order of magnitude above the active dose for its PCP-derived cousin; 2) has a mild chalky taste, as opposed to the intensely bitter taste of all other ACHs; 3) literally has the appearance and texture of... crushed blackboard chalk. 8)

At this point I'm just waiting for good enough evidence to be able to formally call bullshit, so this vendor can be taken off the market.
 

sekio

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That actually looks pretty good, it integrates to 20.89 protons (CxNxH21 for the compound) and the HPLC (even though I can't guess the detector) looks like it's fairly pure too.

NMR peak at 3.31 is water, peak at 2.50 is DMSO. (solvents)

If that analysis is legit, you have real stuff. Freebase.

Going from right to left on the NMR the peaks are:
TMS (internal standard)
CH3 ethyl (sum=3)
10 cyclohexyl + amine H (sum=3+11)
CH2 ethyl (sum=3+11+2)

= 16 aliphatic H

...solvent peaks...

3 sets of aromatic protons, (1+2+1)
peak far on the left is the phenolic OH. (1+2+1+1)

+ 5 aromatic and phenol H.

= 21 hydrogens.
 
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TheAppleCore

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^ Thanks for reading the data for me. :)

Hrmm. Now I'm just convinced that the analysis was forged, however. :\

Sigh. I guess I'll have to try to find a lab to do some work on it.
 

TheAppleCore

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^ Up to 2 mg nasally, and 10 mg orally -- another user of the same batch from the same vendor tried 20 mg nasally, with no appreciable effects.

I mean, I guess I could try bombing 50 milligrams. I don't want to eat *that* much chalk though. ;)
 

amanitadine

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It could make sense that the phenol would absorb poorly, but FnB, Hugo, Psood, etc all had reports and experiences with 3-HO PCP, not iv, and these conflicted with the report that you mentioned. Hugo and FNB reported it as quite toxic feeling, but I think Psood came to like it a bit IIRC? FWIW the report that you mentioned, along with the rest of those, trials, has been called into question as possible conjecture based on the literature and SAR. Some of it doesn't add up, and conflicts with more other first person trials. . . .

Curious how this one will pan out, haven't tried any of the 3-HO. ..
 

TheAppleCore

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That's very strange. Given that the one report of 3-HO-PCP was IV administration, maybe the phenol is poorly absorbed?
The citrate was used intranasally @ 2 mg, which I would expect to produce effects in the same ball park of I.V., presumably weaker to some degree. Also, the one report of 3-HO-PCP noted in the recent 3-HO-PCE thread, which noted very strong effects at 3 mg, was describing oral usage.

FWIW the report that you mentioned, [...]
Sorry, I'm a little unclear, which report are you referring to? :)


The final nail in the coffin for me with this sample was the fact that it was virtually tasteless -- I literally dumped a full 10 milligrams directly onto my tongue, and rubbed my tongue against the roof of my mouth until the compound was coating the entire surface of my tongue, and there was a ~mildly~ bitter taste that lasted a fraction of a second, until there was absolutely no taste whatsoever.

OTOH, ~500 micrograms of 3-MeO-PCP placed on my tongue produces a bitter taste that makes me cringe.

I'm just hoping that the entire psychonautic/RC community doesn't wrongly assume that 3-HO-PCE is a pharmacological dud, and completely abandon it, just because some shady chemical vendor thought they could make a few bucks off the complete lack of info on this compound.
 
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amanitadine

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TAC - I was referencing the PCP analogs report by Adder. I am assuming you got it from the fella that lists weird sedatives, etc, and has been around for a while? He has always been trustworthy, but I wouldn't be surprised if he got ripped off by a manufacturer? The lack of taste is rather odd. . .
 

ethermonkey

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Without breaking any BL rules, I have a strong feeling that my story is all so very closely related. C'est la vie. I never got over 5mg so far and have carefully titrated up from 100ug over the course of a few weeks, taking several days in-between. The most I ever felt was an opiate like feeling that lasted about 45 minutes and that was with about 3mg all at once (nasally) with a week in-between. Also felt a bit sweaty and weird. Seems inactive, or bad ROA, or something just not matching the speculation. So maybe it was over-hyped. Or maybe its not pure. Would be a first from this source, but weirder things have definitely happened. Be safe out there.
 
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