Bupe 3 days back on maintenance, why do I STILL feel like I'm in WD?

[roxi2873]

Backstory: I was on sub maintenance for 6 months. It got too expensive so I saved up about 40 8mg strips and stopped going to my doctor. I made those 40 last from August until Christmas. I was stable on about 2mg a day. I knew I wouldn't be able to jump at 2mg so I decided to take the last 200$ I had and buy some on the street. Long story short the dude ripped me off and I lost the only connection I had anymore and all my money. That was 2 days before Christmas. I went from Christmas until January 5th on about 80mg of loperamide every day. I got back into my sub doctor a few days ago on the 5th. The last time I did the lope was the 3rd. I was in withdrawal as I waited 48 hours to induct. I inducted at 2mg and still managed to go into precipitated withdrawal. I was halfway expecting that because it happened to me before. Eventually after doing 4 strips over 3 days I got to the point where I don't feel bad anymore, but I still don't feel decent yet either. I still have a runny nose, and some GI cramping and a headache...But not the hell of full blown PW. Since I went 2 weeks without bupe, I figured I would at least get a decent buzz the first couple days. Is the lope still messing with me or something? Again, I don't feel terrible anymore, just kind of blah. Why do I still feel like I'm in mild withdrawal still? It's been 3 days back on subs. Anyone have any idea?? Thanks in advance.

 

[tacodude]

No one can tell you for sure, but your best bet is to blame the lope

 

[roxi2873]

It has to be the lope, that or maybe I am actually sick with the flu or something. It's almost like I am immune to bupe anymore. I know lope has kind of a long half life...Maybe it's still in there messing up my receptors. I just wish I could feel normal again.

 

[tacodude]

Just give it time. Opiate dependency is much more than the short term acute wds

 

[MDPV_Psychosis]

It's possible taking 80mg of lope a day for 5 days messed with your tolerance.

 

[roxi2873]

It's possible taking 80mg of lope a day for 5 days messed with your tolerance.

It was more like 14 days. I now only have 2 strips left until I go back on Thursday because I've been trying to overpower whatever the problem is with higher doses of bupe but it's become obvious that's not going to work. I'm don't feel terrible anymore so I'm just going to take 4mg a day until my appointment on Thursday. I think I may have a sinus infection adding to the problems. I have lots of tooth/head pain and pressure in my eyes. I'm having a stiff back and lower back pain but don't feel too achey anywhere else. I was hoping I would get a buzz after being off the bupe for 2 weeks but I basically just feel a little better than being in withdrawal....I can't win

 

[roxi2873]

I've tried the sub strips in 3 different ROA's as well. 4mg does sublingual, intranasal, and plugged. Neither way resulted in any real relief.

 

[LucidSDreamr]

2mg is stronger dose that 4 mg with sub....once you go over 2mg u decrease the efficacy due to an inability of the full agonist metabolite being unable to compete with all the partial agonist bupe

 

[tacodude]

It could be the cardio toxic effects from the lope that you might be feeling recovery or after effects of. Honestly you should be talking to your sub or general care doctor about this stuff. No one here can help you diagnose or understand the issue. If it's seeming to improve then just inform your doctor next time you see them. If it gets worse see your doctor ASAP or go to the ER.

 

[CruelBri]

give it acouple more days and ull be fine, its all just leaving ur body... i felt like that too... but 5 days after i was fully energized and back to normaL

 

[adder]

I suppose such big doses of loperamide would mess with peripheral opioid receptors a lot as well, that may be adding to it, it's likely not totally out of your system either. Anyway, isn't a transition to buprenorphine during the first few days usually like that? I haven't really done the normal induction as I was off methadone for 2 months and couldn't get better, then took prescribed tramadol for 2 weeks at 400mg a day, and then got induced at 2mg+2mg of bupe on the first day, I'm sure I skipped one or two evening doses of tramadol on the day before (it didn't do anything anyway for me at all aside from serotonergic and noradrenergic effects), but how I felt during the first few days on bupe was far from feeling well and it wasn't in any way similar to classic opioid withdrawal, I experienced extreme headache associated with nausea and dizziness, some anxiety as well. For this reason I decided I didn't want to be at 8mg a day as it was way too overwhelming, and I got discharged from hospital at 4mg which I shortly after felt was not enough.

The honey moon period, I bet, has a lot to do with kappa antagonism, especially if you had been taking opioids long-term before induction, long-term kappa agonism caused by opioids is associated with depression after all. So if you had a 2-week break from bupe, I wouldn't expect that to come back. Reading how long people recover after quitting bupe and how they go through different phases clearly shows bupe maintenance impacts us long-term. I hope you get better soon though.

 

[Ilove2nod]

Yeah.. I'm sure it has got something to do with taking 80mg of lope daily, and hopping on subs.. you would think it would be out of your system 2 days later.. that's just how it is though with subs. A lot of people have to wait for long amounts of time after taking any sort of full agonist or different opioid before jumping on bupe.. I myself have done massive amounts of dope, oxy, dilaudid, opana, etc... then taken bupe 12hrs to at the most 24 hrs later after any given opioid/opiate, and been fine every time.. never have I really gone into full blown PWD, because I have a very fast metabolism.. but that does have a lot to do with how soon/late you should wait before taking bupe, no matter the ROA after any other opioid.. the only one you can actually take with bupe, and not go into PWD (so I have heard at least, never actually tried this one I'm about to mention, just heard a lot about it..)is tramadol.. I have heard it actually potentiates the bupe, tremendously from others who have done this, I have never even met anyone who has tramadol though.. I only have ever had access to the stronger opis.. dope, oxy, dilaudid.. etc..

And I would give plugging another try with bupe, if your usual ROA is sublingual.. I know you said you tried every other ROA besides IV, including plugging and none worked at 4mg.. but tacodude is right, bupe seems to be much stronger IME at least, when taken at around 2mg doses each time.. 1-2mg is my usual dose I do at a time.. I slam my shit.. wish I never started but, I cant stop now.. solely just because I like IVing.. or not so much like, but have an addiction to and don't know how to make myself go back to sniffing or plugging it my bupe.. I just feel like I wont get the same efficacy as all the others have BAs lower than the 100% BA IV bupe has, also am just totally addicted to the ritual.. And the actual feeling I get, if I smoke weed and take benzos before I do the bupe.. its an incredible synergy, that has its own nice "opiate-esque" high.. very nice feeling, I have become a total stoner again now, as weed/THC makes bupe like 5x stronger feeling, as do the kpins I take daily as well, which I am prescribed with my bupe. I am in no way telling you OP, to go out and take klonopin every day, and shoot bupe! NO! do not.. benzos are for those who absolutely need them to function in this world properly, and no one else to take on a daily basis.. if you can keep the usage minimal they are great with bupe thought, but daily benzo usage leads nowhere good.. I have like 10/10 anxiety on a scale from 1-10 anxiety level.. and have tried so many other things like, SSRIs before I hopped on klonopin 5 years ago.. Weed however, is great with just bupe on its own too! If you aren't feeling it now, but aren't in PWD anymore.. Bupe is like the one opioid(well partial agonist opioid..) that I never seem to gain a tolerance too, only throughout the course of a day.. like if I do too many shots of it too close together, it does not work as well at all.. but if I wait longer than 6 hours for each 2mg shot of bupe I take, I am golden.. especially with some herb!

So yeah, not sure if its just you... maybe you do have some kind of crazy tolerance built up to it, even though I have never really had this happen with bupe.. and its the only thing opioid related that this hasn't happened to me with.. oxy my tolerance got worse, with each pill I did/took but bupe, seems to always be around the same kind of potency and have the same feeling for me at doses 2mg or less, when either plugged or IVed for me.. sometimes I used to sniff it too, though plugging is better for you than sniffing is, overall.. and MUCH better than IV, plugging is truly the least harmful ROA if you think about it... from an HR stand point, if done correctly and with the proper tools, plugging is safe, and harmless(as far as I know) to your body.

And also I have very limited experience with loperamide.. so I cant really say, anything about that too much.. but I do know, it can definitely throw you into precipitated WDs, when taken too soon before bupe... for some. But everyone is very different when it comes to when they can take bupe after a full agonist opiate/opioid and be okay, with no PWDs and how long they have to wait between them both.. Good luck with the subs!

 

[roxi2873]

Yeah.. I'm sure it has got something to do with taking 80mg of lope daily, and hopping on subs.. you would think it would be out of your system 2 days later.. that's just how it is though with subs. A lot of people have to wait for long amounts of time after taking any sort of full agonist or different opioid before jumping on bupe.. I myself have done massive amounts of dope, oxy, dilaudid, opana, etc... then taken bupe 12hrs to at the most 24 hrs later after any given opioid/opiate, and been fine every time.. never have I really gone into full blown PWD, because I have a very fast metabolism.. but that does have a lot to do with how soon/late you should wait before taking bupe, no matter the ROA after any other opioid.. the only one you can actually take with bupe, and not go into PWD (so I have heard at least, never actually tried this one I'm about to mention, just heard a lot about it..)is tramadol.. I have heard it actually potentiates the bupe, tremendously from others who have done this, I have never even met anyone who has tramadol though.. I only have ever had access to the stronger opis.. dope, oxy, dilaudid.. etc..

And I would give plugging another try with bupe, if your usual ROA is sublingual.. I know you said you tried every other ROA besides IV, including plugging and none worked at 4mg.. but tacodude is right, bupe seems to be much stronger IME at least, when taken at around 2mg doses each time.. 1-2mg is my usual dose I do at a time.. I slam my shit.. wish I never started but, I cant stop now.. solely just because I like IVing.. or not so much like, but have an addiction to and don't know how to make myself go back to sniffing or plugging it my bupe.. I just feel like I wont get the same efficacy as all the others have BAs lower than the 100% BA IV bupe has, also am just totally addicted to the ritual.. And the actual feeling I get, if I smoke weed and take benzos before I do the bupe.. its an incredible synergy, that has its own nice "opiate-esque" high.. very nice feeling, I have become a total stoner again now, as weed/THC makes bupe like 5x stronger feeling, as do the kpins I take daily as well, which I am prescribed with my bupe. I am in no way telling you OP, to go out and take klonopin every day, and shoot bupe! NO! do not.. benzos are for those who absolutely need them to function in this world properly, and no one else to take on a daily basis.. if you can keep the usage minimal they are great with bupe thought, but daily benzo usage leads nowhere good.. I have like 10/10 anxiety on a scale from 1-10 anxiety level.. and have tried so many other things like, SSRIs before I hopped on klonopin 5 years ago.. Weed however, is great with just bupe on its own too! If you aren't feeling it now, but aren't in PWD anymore.. Bupe is like the one opioid(well partial agonist opioid..) that I never seem to gain a tolerance too, only throughout the course of a day.. like if I do too many shots of it too close together, it does not work as well at all.. but if I wait longer than 6 hours for each 2mg shot of bupe I take, I am golden.. especially with some herb!

So yeah, not sure if its just you... maybe you do have some kind of crazy tolerance built up to it, even though I have never really had this happen with bupe.. and its the only thing opioid related that this hasn't happened to me with.. oxy my tolerance got worse, with each pill I did/took but bupe, seems to always be around the same kind of potency and have the same feeling for me at doses 2mg or less, when either plugged or IVed for me.. sometimes I used to sniff it too, though plugging is better for you than sniffing is, overall.. and MUCH better than IV, plugging is truly the least harmful ROA if you think about it... from an HR stand point, if done correctly and with the proper tools, plugging is safe, and harmless(as far as I know) to your body.

And also I have very limited experience with loperamide.. so I cant really say, anything about that too much.. but I do know, it can definitely throw you into precipitated WDs, when taken too soon before bupe... for some. But everyone is very different when it comes to when they can take bupe after a full agonist opiate/opioid and be okay, with no PWDs and how long they have to wait between them both.. Good luck with the subs!

I'm not sure where you are but in Ohio you CAN'T be prescribed a benzo if you're currently being prescribed Suboxone. It's a legal thing here. Pisses me off because I have legitimate severe anxiety problems that I have to take antipsychotics for now instead of a short acting benzo that won't just always make me cloudy. Every time I go to my sub Dr and checks some database to see if I've been prescribed any other narcotics. If you have, you will be kicked out of the sub program. Some sub doctors don't test for marijuana because of this issue. I used to go to one that didn't care about weed, but now I go to one that doesn't allow that. I also have to save all my sub wrappers and bring them in to my appointment and they test the levels of bupe in your urine. I know they are trying to curb diversion but if anything they're just doing that to the only opioid that's pretty hard to kill yourself with.
Bupe has seemed to mess with my receptors a lot. The first time I was on sub maintenance for about 8 months, I relapsed because of some personal problem and stopped going to my sub clinic...My relapse was pathetic because I couldn't get high on ANYTHING I tried. The only thing I could do that worked was crack. It took 2 weeks before I could even feel the full agonist opioids again and a full month before I could actually get high on them. Then a few months later is when I overdosed snorting maybe .1 of H. it was probably fent because it didn't feel right from the second I snorted it. I managed to walk down the stairs and splash some water on my face, then I sat down to text my girlfriend and got maybe a couple words in before I tried to get up because I felt like I was falling out. I ended up just falling over and stopped breathing. All the other junkies left me there so they wouldn't get in trouble. If it wasn't for the guys 90 year old grandma with dementia saw me and called 911 that paramedics came. They had to give me 2 IV Narcan doses to bring me back, and the shit was so strong I started reoverdosing once I got to the hospital. That's when I got back on subs back in June and was on them till Christmas. But yea, I think bupe just fries your opiate receptors or something. Hopefully it starts to actually make me feel good again soon. That loperamide is nasty stuff too. I was actually getting an energetic high off it though taking about 40mg with tagament an hour before. And I was in withdrawal when I tried to induct on bupe, I felt absolutely terrible, it just... Didn't really work. It's getting better but slowly.

 

[crzydiamond]

Loperamide has a very long half life. I have no doubt that's your issue.

Give it a few days/a week and it'll work itself back into balance.

 

[Thejackal5654]

Whoaaaaa.... It's the lope man... I did rails of subs all day every for 6 years and was doing at least 2, sometimes 3 times what you were in a day and I jumped w/o a taper and I remember getting fucking zinged offa 50mg lope when the wd's first started.... I remember thinking "no way immodium did this, sub w/d ain't shit", a few days later I found out... sub w/d is SHIT, and doing stupid doses of lope will induce psycho-active state... I flushed the rest down the toilet. You were taking wayyy to much man, the shits really no joke and as bluelights taught me, everyones different. we both seem prone to it's effects at high doses, I'd read up on the damage it can do and stay away from the shit.

You've overpowered your receptors. read about people on crazy doses, nothing helps them in w/d, it's powerful stuff.. After I flushed the huge bottle I had I remember shaking like a leaf deep in the acute phase and walking(shaking) up to udf and bought the 2 mini boxes of it they had and found great relief from 8 (16mg) just to give a lil perspective. I would STAY AWAY. Doses like that can permanently fuck. you. up.