RCs 2-methyl-2-butanol Carbamate

[Venrak]

Came across this chemical being sold recently.

It is a powdered form of 2-methyl-2-butanol.

What about dosage? I guessing it is in the hundreds of mg.

 

[crazycatman]

Don't know about the powder version but the liquid one is supposed to be similar to ethanol except more potent (the dose being 2-4g if i remember correctly).

 

[foolsgold]

the liquid is crap i found cnt see a powdered version being any better

 

[punkboi26]

The carbamate is far more useful than it's parent I believe. 2-Methyl-2-butanol carbamate potency is determined by RoA I think. It is considered comparable to ethanol but with much fewer negative effects. Maybe it could even be used to help remedy some hangover effects of ethanol consumption. tert-amylcarbamate does not oxidize after it is administered so it would not metabolize into harmful aldehydes that ethanol metabolizes into such as ethanal, the ethanol aldehyde. It is supposedly also equal in potency to GHB and has hypnotic effects akin to benzos. This substance appears to have huge medical value in treating alcohol dependency. It appears as though conventional, unaltered tert-amylcarbamate oral administration will not produce the ethanol-like effects that inhalation and injection would provide. As far as drugs go.....it is still a large amount of substance to use for the effects generally desired. 2 to 4 grams of the carbamate are needed to produce effective activity. I couldn't imaging having to inject that must shit into my veins. To solute 4 grams of powder into something that will not be as thick as chocolate syrup would require a shit ton of solvent...whether it was sterile water or whatever. Also, alot of this info was found at Wiki of course but the findings there and elsewhere do make this a very interesting substance.

 

[Venrak]

Hrm...

Interesting.

I would quite enjoy an alternative to alcohol for when people around me are drinking.

It is quite expensive per dose though. Might get it for novelty purposes.

 

[sekio]

TL;DR Don't take this; it is a likely carcinogen.

Carbamates are much more than "powdered versions" of their alcohol counterparts, they are in fact totally different drugs. They are not just prodrugs for alcohols.

The carbamate group is basically a urea molecule bonded to an alcohol. Many carbamates are also known as urethanes - urethane is the name for ethyl carbamate.. You may know of "urethanes" as a type of plastic. Some carbamates are used as insecticides (Carbaryl) because they inhibit AChE.

The "pharmacologically relevant" carbamates are drugs like carisoprodol/Soma, tybamate, methocarbamol etc, which have not-immediately-obvious modes of action (in some cases GABAa agonism but in others, e.g. adenosine reuptake inhibition, or just total unknown MoAs)

While many carbamates are not acutely toxic, the lower alkyl carbamates are pretty reactive, probably because they will interacalate into DNA, or something like that. Either way there is a lot of evidence suggesting that they're not good for you...

Studies with rats, mice, and hamsters has shown that ethyl carbamate will cause cancer when it is administered orally, injected, or applied to the skin, but no adequate studies of cancer in humans caused by ethyl carbamate has been reported due to the ethical considerations of such studies. However, in 2007, the International Agency for Research on Cancer raised ethyl carbamate to a Group 2A carcinogen that is "probably carcinogenic to humans," one level below fully carcinogenic to humans. IARC has stated that ethyl carbamate can be “reasonably anticipated to be a human carcinogen based on sufficient evidence of carcinogenicity in experimental animals.”

I do not see any reason to assume that 2m2b-carbamate would not also be this way. At the very least i see no good reason to assume it is safe...
I would definitely avoid consuming random alcohol carbamates for this reason.

 

[crazycatman]

the best alcohol (ethanol) alternative is ghb

feels almost the same, doesn't have most of it's side effects

there are only 3 problems with it - 1. it's illegal (it's precursor gbl may not be, depending on where you live), 2. it's easy to overdose if you don't know exactly how much your're taking, 3. since it doesn't have a hangover it's much easier to start using 24/7 which will quickly lead to addiction

if you can keep your use at 1x per day or less and know how much your taking it's a much better drug than ethanol

 

[Venrak]

Thank you very much for that information, sekio.

I guess I'll be making some NaGHB...

 

[FlippingTop]

Don't know about the powder version but the liquid one is supposed to be similar to ethanol except more potent (the dose being 2-4g if i remember correctly).

2-4gs? I think you may be thinking of GHB, I know that 2-m-2-b doses were in the 10's of ml mark

 

[KJL]

TL;DR Don't take this; it is a likely carcinogen.

Carbamates are much more than "powdered versions" of their alcohol counterparts, they are in fact totally different drugs. They are not just prodrugs for alcohols.

The carbamate group is basically a urea molecule bonded to an alcohol. Many carbamates are also known as urethanes - urethane is the name for ethyl carbamate.. You may know of "urethanes" as a type of plastic. Some carbamates are used as insecticides (Carbaryl) because they inhibit AChE.

The "pharmacologically relevant" carbamates are drugs like carisoprodol/Soma, tybamate, methocarbamol etc, which have not-immediately-obvious modes of action (in some cases GABAa agonism but in others, e.g. adenosine reuptake inhibition, or just total unknown MoAs)

While many carbamates are not acutely toxic, the lower alkyl carbamates are pretty reactive, probably because they will interacalate into DNA, or something like that. Either way there is a lot of evidence suggesting that they're not good for you...


I do not see any reason to assume that 2m2b-carbamate would not also be this way. At the very least i see no good reason to assume it is safe...
I would definitely avoid consuming random alcohol carbamates for this reason.

Can you please help me? First of all - 2-Methyl-2-butanol is not carcinogenic, right? You were just referring to the carbamate "powdered version" not to the basic liquid alcohol. Second - how would someone make sure that the 2-Methyl-2-butanol they received is not contaminated - or some other chemical - as they would be receiving it from a place that is not in the business of selling for consumption - period. Is there anyway to test it other then to smell camphor? SWIM has tried it years ago - but can't exactly recall what camphor smells like. I mean, there would be no reason for them to add other chemicals to their 2-Methyl-2-butanol - right? Thank you. This is super important to me.

 

[sekio]

Plain old 2m2b is not carcinogenic, only carbamates in general.
There is essentially no way to safely test for contaminants in your 2m2b without an analytical chemistry lab, or a GC. Going by smell is not good enough.

Camphor is one of the main "smells" in Vicks vaporub ointment.

(also we don't swim here)

 

[KJL]

Plain old 2m2b is not carcinogenic, only carbamates in general.
There is essentially no way to safely test for contaminants in your 2m2b without an analytical chemistry lab, or a GC. Going by smell is not good enough.

Camphor is one of the main "smells" in Vicks vaporub ointment.

(also we don't swim here)

Thanks for the response. It's just that these people were very disorganized via internet and phone - so some worry that they may completely screw up the order and give me something totally different. It's just way too expensive going thru more "friendly" ventures. I was thinking about maybe showing up at some breweries and seeing if they might want to get rid of it - since I've read it's a by-product of the fermentation of grain - maybe it just all goes into the brew - probably so that probably won't work. It's the best medication though - very similar to Placidyl - only thing is the chemical burps - but I could care less at this point - I need to chill the fuck out.

 

[sekio]

Breweries that make drink for humans almost never seperate the individual higher alkaloids, aside from discarding them as a 'tail fraction'. They are considered undesired in many drink alcohols. By the way, we do not discuss sourcing chemicals here.

For the record I could see a likely synthesis of 2m2b from methyl ethyl ketone and either methyllithium or a methyl Grignard reagent. (Neither of those are home-chemistry syntheses though) That's probably how it's made industrially. The likely byproducts would be methane, a gas, or left over methyl ethyl ketone, and lithium hydroxide (which would not dissolve well in 2m2b).
MEK is nontoxic in small amounts. Methane would have long evaporated into the air, and the traces of lithium hydroxide could be removed by distillation.

The best way to guess at the authenticity if you are a lay man is by comparing smell, color, density (measure a known volume out, and weigh it), and whether it leaves a residue if you evaporate a small amount. Try reading the MSDS.

 

[KJL]

Thanks! I don't have anything to compare it with though - but the evaporation idea I can do. Basically, if any residue is left - that's a no-go, right? And the lithium hydroxide shouldn't be an issue as long as there's not something obviously off about it color -"texture" wise (the oily nature notwithstanding) but I could "distill" it to be safe? I guess just find the established weight and weigh what I have if it's heavier - bad sign? Anything a lay person should look for specifically in the MSDS? Thanks so much!

 

[KJL]

Obviously compare it with MSDS generalities.

 

[KJL]

Breweries that make drink for humans almost never seperate the individual higher alkaloids, aside from discarding them as a 'tail fraction'. They are considered undesired in many drink alcohols. By the way, we do not discuss sourcing chemicals here.

For the record I could see a likely synthesis of 2m2b from methyl ethyl ketone and either methyllithium or a methyl Grignard reagent. (Neither of those are home-chemistry syntheses though) That's probably how it's made industrially. The likely byproducts would be methane, a gas, or left over methyl ethyl ketone, and lithium hydroxide (which would not dissolve well in 2m2b).
MEK is nontoxic in small amounts. Methane would have long evaporated into the air, and the traces of lithium hydroxide could be removed by distillation.

The best way to guess at the authenticity if you are a lay man is by comparing smell, color, density (measure a known volume out, and weigh it), and whether it leaves a residue if you evaporate a small amount. Try reading the MSDS.

This is going to sound like a really stupid question (only stupid people) and I know that if it were true - I would have lit on fire years ago when I first tried 2m2b - but those chemical burps and smell you put off - to some degree - that would be flammable - say if it coincided with a cigarette or something, right?

Sometimes you just need some reassuring ease. Thanks.

 

[KJL]

"Wouldn't be flammable" I meant.

 

[Crashing]

Alcohol itself is a carcinogen, so based on that it's probably safe to assume that 2m2b would be also.

 

[sekio]

Ethanol consumed in moderation is a pretty weak carcinogen, it's more of a plain ol' liver toxin.

Generally burps from intoxicants won't set you alight, because even though you can smell the compound in the air there is usually not enough compound, or enough oxygen, to sustain combustion. But in the case of really volatile/flammable compounds, like diethyl ether, you can indeed belch fire if you're not careful...

Lithium metal salts should not be consumed as lithium can do all sorts of ill-defined trickery to your brain, and can cause toxicity if blood levels raise too high. Just don't consume your 2m2b if it leaves residue upon evaporation.

Another quick and dirty test is to look for residue on ignition, the 2m2b should burn cleanly and leave no residue.

 

[Thanatos]

So Sekio, your conclusion would be to avoid the carbamate ester because of its likely carcinogenic activity?