Bupe 1mg Suboxone For a Week - Withdrawals?

[d896629]

At this point, I can no longer pretend I am in opioid withdrawal. Here's roughly where I am in the past two weeks [link below shows much more detail, but I'll keep this one short]:

Week 1: 13mg methadone midway through. Otherwise, nothing.
Week 2: 1mg Suboxone daily.

I am thinking of using 1mg Xanax daily for a week, and then being done with it all. I MAY allow myself 3mg more Suboxone [1mg daily for three days] after the Xanax just to make ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN I am not addicted to Xanax...but then at some point I MUST let go of this.

For the record, I started smoking cigarettes in early July of 2018, at age 36! I smoked 22 cigarettes in May, 19 cigarettes in June, and finally FOUR cigarettes in July when I finally realized "I'm not addicted to cigarettes! And I possibly never was!"

It's almost embarrassing looking back now.

I'm thinking at this point, I want to rotate opiates [Oxycontin or Hydromorph, swallowed or intranasal] on Sunday, and then 2mg of Suboxone of Sunday/Monday the following week, and then increase that to rotating 10 days between both rather than a week, and then rotate opiates and Suboxone every TWO weeks [ultimately doing opiates once a month, and Suboxone once a month], and then FINALLY [before the new year], get to a system where I am doing ONE opiate day per MONTH [if not less].

I moderated opiates between 2007 and 2016, even taking two periods of two years off during that time. I feel like I'm finally getting back to a point where I'm just about there. I'm not quite there yet, but after passing week and month, I feel less tempted to use, and tempted to use less when I use.

I'm not saying I'm trying to quit completely - just harm reduce, exercise moderation by using infrequently, and ensuring my tolerance is always at a "virginal" level.

I have used hydromorphone twice in the past month, and for the past two months, I've been at maybe 5mg of methadone a month. My tolerance is extremely low, but I'm not quite yet where I want to be. I'm just very close.

Am I right to say that I shouldn't experience much withdrawal from 1mg Suboxone daily for one week, and that 1mg [ish] of Xanax daily for a week should help me get through that?

I'll put it this way - I was going 48 hours between doses of under 1.5mg of methadone, and when I took it, it felt STRONG, and made me sleep like a baby.

If I achieve my goal, I am thinking of having a small quantity of opiates on new year's day [DAY, not EVE - too many people overdo it on New Year's Eve and die - so I prefer doing it on a chill day, without any pressure to use in a higher quantity], and then go until June 1st without using anything.

Again, I moderated opiates for nine years before life things produced the perfect storm for me to be addicted. Those life problems are no longer here, and I just don't want to use a lot any more. But I feel like I sense the slightest bit of withdrawal, and on those days [it comes in waves], I worry about relapse.

Unless someone tells me otherwise [and keeping in mind I have no addiction to benzodiazepines], I would like to try 5-7 days on low dose Xanax, followed by another 1-2 or 3 days on 1mg Suboxone daily, then to try to go one full week before using, and to keep putting more and more space.

I am highly open-minded to advice on this. I'm doing quite well, and I do NOTHING except opiates [I smoked very little, and for a short period well into my adult life]. I don't even eat junk food [I am a competitive lightweight strongman].

Here is my other thread - gosh, I have a hard time keeping my posts short:

Bupe - Shaking Off Tiny Lingering Opiate Habit.

Hello everyone! [I think that thread title is best - I have only used Suboxone in the past seven days, aside from codeine on Thursday] Long time reader, but only a new poster. I am a 38-year-old Canadian male hypochondriac. I am 5'8.5" [174cm] and 190-lb, and I have a mini-bodybuilder's...

www.bluelight.org

Thank you for any input you may have.

 

[Deru]

I would recommend tapering even further, even 0.5mg/day of buprenorphine is difficult due to it's long half-life. If you really want to do the Xanax, which I'd highly recommend against, then I would absolutely wait until Day 1 or Day 2 of full cessation. If you must use it, as well, I'd use miniscule amounts just to relieve symptoms.

I can only stress how important eating incredibly healthy, hydration and exercise are the keys to success here beyond just about anything else. All other drugs give temporary relief, but, in my experience, just further delay and worsen the inevitable long-term goal.

It's possible, for sure. I was on buprenorphine for 10 years and I've been clean for 3 years now, best thing I ever did. And after many failed attempts, diet, hydration and exercise were the pieces of the puzzle I had always missed in my previous attempts.

 

[d896629]

I would recommend tapering even further, even 0.5mg/day of buprenorphine is difficult due to it's long half-life. If you really want to do the Xanax, which I'd highly recommend against, then I would absolutely wait until Day 1 or Day 2 of full cessation. If you must use it, as well, I'd use miniscule amounts just to relieve symptoms.

I can only stress how important eating incredibly healthy, hydration and exercise are the keys to success here beyond just about anything else. All other drugs give temporary relief, but, in my experience, just further delay and worsen the inevitable long-term goal.

It's possible, for sure. I was on buprenorphine for 10 years and I've been clean for 3 years now, best thing I ever did. And after many failed attempts, diet, hydration and exercise were the pieces of the puzzle I had always missed in my previous attempts.

Great news, Deru! In one hour and 40 minutes, I will be 48 hours since my last small consumption of Suboxone with not even the tiniest bit of withdrawal thus far.

I only used 8mg over the course of a week, if that makes a difference. I mistakenly used around 2.8mg in the first 24 hours which was WAY too much, and used slightly under 1mg per day on average in the subsequent days.

I will be clear on this - I do NOT want to get addicted to Xanax. But I only have about 10mg available, and my goal is to use that to carry me for 5-7 days, then grab another 8mg of Suboxone, and break off 3mg of it, give the rest to a friend, use 1mg of Suboxone for three days, and then STOP EVERYTHING.

In the 10 days prior to using Suboxone, I had only had one day of use - which was 13mg of methadone, midway through. I did have some T1's [8mg of codeine, separated by way of cold water extraction], but that's about it.

I'm in that sort of post-acute withdrawal phase. I still want to use...but the craving are not the same as when I was a daily user.

After I stop after using the Xanax, followed by the three days of Suboxone to deal with any mild Xanax withdrawals that may be present after 5-7 days of use, I am going to go ONE WEEK, then have a night of OxyContin [40mg], and then go another week, and use a portion of the remaining Suboxone.

Then I'm going to go TEN DAYS.

Then I'm going to go ten days again, then two weeks, two weeks, and one final two weeks between using.

And then...I need to decide...how, as an ex-addict, do I incorporate opiates in my life?

Once a week?

Once a month?

Twice a year?

Never?

For the record, I am a lightweight strongman competitor, with a lifetime of fitness, and I have found opiates are the ONLY pleasure that goes with my body chemistry. Marijuana, for example, makes me DEATHLY PARANOID. I hate it! Alcohol feels like poison. MDMA is speedy, and terrifying in its own right.

The only source of pleasure I have is opiates, and, while I'm happy to be so close to being over using them...it also makes me sad, because without opiates, I live a life that a monk would consider ascetic, and I don't even eat McDonald's cheeseburgers [well - rarely].

Thanks for the help, Deru. I will keep the board updated, and let everyone know where my thought process lies.

I am thinking - I will probably be comfortably using opiates once a month by the new year. Will I want to drop that to zero? Unlikely...but time will tell.

 

[d896629]

Question for you, Deru:

If someone who never used an opiate or opioid [or partial opiate agonist, which I think buprenorphine, the euphorigenic ingredient in Suboxone, falls under], and they used approximately 1mg of Suboxone per day for a week, would you still recommend they taper?

Of course, I am not that person - I was highly addicted to opiates in 2017 and 2018, and have been reducing since March of 2019, having gone, thus far at my longest, nine full days without anything.

But my tolerance is LOW - I honestly think [and this may not even make sense to you] that my tolerance is LOWER than when I had tried my first Percocet at age 25 [I'm 38 now].

How about this:

I will try my best to cold turkey it, but take your advice and keep Suboxone on hand in case I absolutely MUST use it...but my GOAL will be to cold turkey this, do 5-7 days of Xanax, do 0.2mg to 0.5mg [max 1mg] of Suboxone for three days after cessation of Xanax, and then...

Cut it all off!

When I was addicted to opiates, I would be in more discomfort after FOUR HOURS since my last use than four DAYS currently! Withdrawals are so low, but I don't think I'm ready for abstinence now, and feel it may drive me to greater relapse. But if in my mind - I focus on the "prize" of using one day per week, then gradually take longer breaks between using, I honestly think that by the new year, I will be at the once a month level comfortably, at which point I will need to decide whether I drop opiates forever, take 2021 off to contemplate my previous addiction and my future with opiates, or something else.

This is really happening though, and I am reading EVERYTHING anyone tells me, and strongly considering it.

If you think it's best, I will keep Suboxone "nearby" [with a friend who lives close to me, and who is on the same sleep/wake schedule that I am, and if I absolutely need it, I will do the taper you suggested. My GOAL is cold turkey though, with the help of Xanax.

Oh - and I'm going to use 0.25mg to 0.5mg of Xanax daily, increasing ONLY if absolutely needed.

Thanks so much, Deru!

 

[Deru]

Great news, Deru! In one hour and 40 minutes, I will be 48 hours since my last small consumption of Suboxone with not even the tiniest bit of withdrawal thus far.

Seriously, congratulations. That is awesome news.

I only used 8mg over the course of a week, if that makes a difference. I mistakenly used around 2.8mg in the first 24 hours which was WAY too much, and used slightly under 1mg per day on average in the subsequent days.

Buprenorphine is a tricky beast because of it's half-life. With daily use, for example, if you're using 1mg/day:

By the 6th day, you're actually "taking" roughly 1.96 mg/day (the amount available to arterial blood) everyday thereafter, which is roughly 58.9 morphine milligram equivalents - it is because of this, combined with it's long half-life, that coming off of even 1 mg/day can be difficult. That's not to say impossible though, and if you can avoid tapering further, that's even better.

I will be clear on this - I do NOT want to get addicted to Xanax. But I only have about 10mg available, and my goal is to use that to carry me for 5-7 days, then grab another 8mg of Suboxone, and break off 3mg of it, give the rest to a friend, use 1mg of Suboxone for three days, and then STOP EVERYTHING.

I can only stress, once you stop buprenorphine, don't start at least the buprenorphine again. Try to avoid long half-life opioids and life is 1,000x easier.

I'm in that sort of post-acute withdrawal phase. I still want to use...but the craving are not the same as when I was a daily user.

Technically the acute phase goes to 14 days, post-acute starts after 14 days. Buprenorphine is such a manipulation nightmare because of the half-life, sometimes you will feel fine until 72 hours, after roughly 3 elimination half-lives, until they creep up hard and fast. Be prepared in case they do, this is where a lot of people relapse big time.

And then...I need to decide...how, as an ex-addict, do I incorporate opiates in my life?

For me, personally, it was never.

Oh - and I'm going to use 0.25mg to 0.5mg of Xanax daily, increasing ONLY if absolutely needed.

Very smart, you seem to have a good plan and look forward to further updates. I'm sure you already have the diet/hydration part covered, so you're already miles ahead. Good luck!