[08] Manic Depression in Pill Form: Warning against excessive use of MDMA - Anonymous

Catch-22

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"Suicide Tuesday" used to be a regular function of the week for friends of mine and I. Naturally, a rigorous Saturday night in the Garden of Eden with our young minds, energetic bodies, and clean, potent pills comes to an end in the real world. There were times when many of us found the after-depression of MDMA too much to bear, and steered clear of her warm embrace for weeks at a time. Perhaps these holes of dejection were a by product of wounded neurons, vitamin deficiency, or our own subjectivity to the principle of "what goes up, must come down."

As of late, I have come to believe the latter of the three. Human consciousness appears to be greatly influenced by even the slightest of subliminal messages. As I sit here listening to the latest in euro-goth EBM, I can feel myself reaching that empathetic state with depression, that pit of nothingness that wearies the soul. Even after nearly a yearlong abstinence of walks with our friend MDXX, I could still feel her touch, empathizing my mind to every emotion, to every sound, to every person encountered. As my teenage years come to an end, I begin to realize how over dramatized these experiences were, and began to continually wonder whether the emotional downsides to ecstasy use were as subjective and one-sided as the states of consciousness experienced in it's elated bliss.

By no means do I find it difficult to remain stable, and by no means do I find it difficult to find happiness in the simplicities of life. I do, however, find it much easier to find ways into those little dark spaces of loneliness. With the constant progression of my age, and my increasing awareness of my true place within this world, I wonder whether we humans have a complete and utter control over our emotions. I wonder if these depressed states we are told we must enter by all forms of media, due to our indulgence in the forbidden fruit, are exactly what cause themselves.

I personally am one of the few that refuse the notion of submitting to the psycho-pharmaceutical revolution to find a constant state of happiness. I find that I can manage my depressive states with proper diet, exercise, vitamins, and a strong will; a strong will that does not allow the rules of this world to force the mind into the downward spiral. I prefer a vitamin B complex and a glass of orange juice to an Effexor prescription any day. True happiness cannot be purchased in pill form. When pop up ads displaying free delivery of mood stabilizing drugs appear on my computer screen on a daily basis, I am forced to question the motives behind their supposed healing powers. Personally, I am not one to advocate the use of drugs to treat the effects of other drugs, or rather, to stabilize ones neurochemistry.

With the rising desire for experimentation with MDMA these days, I foresee a rise in manic-depressive cases and anxiety disorders for the future. This is not to say that use of ecstasy will cause these "disorders" in everyone, rather, its misuse. I attempt to create awareness for the long term after effects of excessive use, and just how extreme the effects can vary person to person. Before one jumps into a year or more of heavy honeymooning with lady M, one must be wary that these days, manic depression also comes in pill form.

All these dreaded side effects are to be easily avoided with one simple word: responsibility. With responsibility come moderation and knowledge. Moderation of use will greatly reduce the strain on ones emotional flux. Most up to date sources will recommend no more than a single dose (80-120mg) at once over a 5-month period, and personally this sounds like a wonderful rule to adhere to. With knowledge we are able to eliminate dangers that arise with unfamiliarity of body, mind, chemical, and source. There is nothing wrong with an experience with MDMA. All people reserve the right to undergo such a physical and emotional awakening. Not all people are able to handle this frame of mind on a regular basis. With plenty of the essential vitamins, healthy lifestyles, educated decisions, and strong spirits, I believe states of depression are entirely avoidable.

Perhaps these words do not apply to everyone who would choose to receive them. Perhaps these words only apply to those of us who ride the roller coaster that is a bipolar disorder. Regardless, the advice is present, and its only purpose is to reduce the harm of caused by our modernized world, where nearly anything can be purchased in pill form.
 

K'dOUTinAZ

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Well, if you have ever been to rehab, 75% of everyone is diagnosed with manic-depression which isway too extreme. It is really depressing when after a five minute talk with a doctor, you can be diagnosed with such an extreme disorder. Everybody is thrown on a mood-stabilizer, either Lithium or Depakote. Sad but true. According to them every sort of drug use can cause Bi-Polar disorder. Ecstasy is no exception. Of course, five minutes is no exception either. As our generation doesn't seem any better than those passed, millions of prescription drugs are prescribed to us. But have they really helped any in our society as a whole? Is it not a marketing scam? Boosting stocks all around our nation? According to these doctors, manic depression can be found in a pill, powder, rig, joint, etc.

Sad but true...
 

VelocideX

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Re: [08] Manic Depression in Pill Form: Warning against excessive use of MDMA - Anonymous

Catch-22 said:
I personally am one of the few that refuse the notion of submitting to the psycho-pharmaceutical revolution to find a constant state of happiness. I find that I can manage my depressive states with proper diet, exercise, vitamins, and a strong will; a strong will that does not allow the rules of this world to force the mind into the downward spiral. I prefer a vitamin B complex and a glass of orange juice to an Effexor prescription any day. True happiness cannot be purchased in pill form. ... . Personally, I am not one to advocate the use of drugs to treat the effects of other drugs, or rather, to stabilize ones neurochemistry.
At what point (if any) are you willing to concede that people should be treated with pharmaceuticals?

I have suffered unipolar depression for a number of years. In retrospect, it reared its head sometime around age 15-16, and I was to almost wholly deny its existence until age 18. Even once I became aware of it, I did what I could to ignore it. I tried to suppress it, to talk myself out of it.

I saw several psychologists, and with their help tried to change my thought processes to alleviate or eliminate my depression. The result? Total failure.

I kept convincing myself that it was working, that I was feeling better, but at relatively minor problems I relapsed into a state of extreme self-pity, self-loathing and general unhappiness.

I tried to treat myself with 5-HTP for sometime - I was afraid of admitting to myself that I needed prescription drugs for my problem - with only little success.

My discover of Ecstasy (MDXX) helped in that it showed me a new side of myself, it gave me "a brief, fleeting moment of sanity" (Claudio Naranjo). Initially I was confident that my newfound insights would continue, that I had been cured by the wonder of this drug.

Alas, that was not to be either. Ecstasy did not exaccerbate my depression, but the relief I gained wore off (after the first time) after two weeks or so, only to come back as strong as ever.

After some failed attempts with doctors, I found Aurorix (moclobemide) at the end of 2003. I cannot underestimate how much this drug has changed my life. I am now happier with my life than I have ever been.

I am not looking for some short term fix, as might have been suggested, nor are these happy pills... I do not feel perpetual euphoria, nor do I feel manic. I feel NORMAL. I no longer have recurring suicidal thoughts. I no longer believe that my friends don't really like me, and i've felt more confident in my personality and my looks.

People who know me say the change has been nothing short of phenomenal.

Depression is a disease, not some sort of mental weakness. Though you might be able to get over yours with a "strong will", there are many that can't. I am extremely strong-willed, but nothing I could ever do would stop the slide into melancholia.

To deny pharmaceutical options to those in need is tantamount to disregarding them entirely in society. Though antidepressants are psychoactive in at least some sense of the word, that does not mean they are not a treatment for a disease like any other.

In my opinion, the tendancy for a significant portion of our society to deny the need for psychiatric treatments reflects an unwillingness to admit that the human brain is not a perfect creation. People are willing to admit that "my body is failing me again", because the body is merely the vessel for your mind. To admit that there is a problem with the mind itself is synonymous with admitting that you, as a sentient entity, has a flaw.

Its not your fault the flaw exists in may cases -- recent work shows that people with mutations in the SERT genes are much more likely to suffer from depression.

Depression is a medical problem that sometimes necessitates a medical solution.
 

runaway

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My family and many of those around me don't sympathize with my changing emotions. I have been diagnosed with bipolar disorder and have used ecstacy in the past. I was diagnosed after begining my use with ecstacy, but the mood stabilizers I am on have helped. They have also made me aware of the effects of the disorder, and I now realize that I had this disorder well before I used any drugs, and the disorder most likely contributed to it.

People expect me to will myself out of my problems with emotions. "Put some backbone into it!". It is easy to say this when we don't understand on an architectural level how the human mind works and what is going on in people with mental disorders. For example, we all sympathize with cripples and their inability to enjoy the things we take for granted. If someone gets their leg chopped off no one says "Will yourself through it damnit!". It is a handicap and deserves treatment, if anyone cares enough.
 

Leprechaun

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I think that anyone who believes in a Constant state of bliss/happiness/euphoria is deluding themselves. All things change, as much as we wish them not to.

There are many words of wisdom, beautiful analogies etc... To express this state of longing for perfection in a sea of change and entropy...

MDMA can lend to a certain reality, while in that reality learn what you can most and take that back to the other realities you experience throughout your life.

I can understand changing moods, as we all have them. Sometimes weeks at a time, sometimes days at a time.

Also, I wish you luck with the future Runaway. :)
 

runaway

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And who calls the tune in the courtroom?
And who beats the funeral drum?

Free Four
Obscured by Clouds
 

MyDoorsAreOpen

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Most up to date sources will recommend no more than a single dose (80-120mg) at once over a 5-month period, and personally this sounds like a wonderful rule to adhere to.
Man oh man, this amount of time is constantly growing! The first source I read, Nick Saunders, said once every month. Then most BL people tell me they like to keep it to once every two months, and that once a month will definitely catch up to me. Then Dr. Shulgin, who recommends 4 rolls a year. Now this.

What'll be next, a source that says this drug is only recommended each time Haley's Comet passes??!!

I use every 7 weeks, and I like to think of myself as a moderate user. [changes voice to sound like Mrs. Krabappel from the Simpsons]: pfft, hah! So much for that lovely notion!
 

VelocideX

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^^ I agree - I'd be interested in some references for these "up-to-date sources". I have gone through periods of using every other or every third weekend and found it sustainable.
 

runaway

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science will determine the effects of current drugs and be capable of developing safer drugs within 5-10 years. this is not that long. if you don't believe my judgement just research genomics, proteomics, semiconductors, and nanotechnology. there is more out there then MDMA, a drug that i believe may have caused me memory damage and emotional instability. it would be hard to prove, but considering the horizon, look for something else atleast.
 

bluedolphin

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I personally agree with most of what "anonymous" said.

I believe MDMA (along with the MDA, MDEA, and methamphetamine mixed in with it) has had more of a negative effect on my depression than any other drug.

At least in current users, the cycle of crashes and recovery often resembles bipolar depression. Apparently some people are more susceptible to long-term mental health problems than others.
 

BlueMind

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I would like to go out on a limb, and say that most, if not all of the after effects of MDMA consumption are due to imbalances/deficits within the serotonin system. Once the imbalance has been fixed, the symptoms should disappear. Do not forget the power of placebo, and word of mouth. There are drugs that destroy the mind, and there are drugs to fix the brain. If you play with MDMA, then you should 'work' by using brain repairing substances. Anything that promotes neurogenesis.

Look at intense cardio, or weight lifting. The only way you get stronger, is by destroying the muscle cells.

These words I speak to you, are coming from someone who has abstained from usage for over 18 months. I feel fine. YMMV.
 

Shimmer.Fade

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I am really glad that this person was able to find a solution do his depression. My whole family except my mom and I fight with severe depression. It seems really awful, and it seems that nothing out there really works for them over 6 months. My personal view on the whole MDMA making depression worse is the old b/c you feel so good then it takes down the value of life when not on the substance theory. I am also fairly sure there is a chemical fuck up relating to depression going on in the brain when MDMA is used.
 

morph325

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I think i have to agree with bluemind on this one.i have abused E heavely(350 pills in 2years)and i dident get depressed at all. why is it that some people take E a faw times and get al sort of side effects and other people go one for years and years and don't get any side effects.
 

E-llusion

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a rigorous Saturday night in the Garden of Eden with our young minds, energetic bodies, and clean, potent pills comes to an end in the real world.
Moderation is KEY. This doesn't sound like moderate use to me.

:\
 

who mE?

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Look at intense cardio, or weight lifting. The only way you get stronger, is by destroying the muscle cells.
My friend has a theory about MDMA... he thinks it makes him smarter because "it kills off the weak braincells so that the strong ones can survive!"... Its "Mental Darwinism" [laugh]
 

kizinja

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lmao.....

hmmm I think the link between MDMA and bipolar is pretty weak... just my opinion. Of course, if you have any kind of latent mental illness you don't want to mess with your brain chemistry at all...
taking 5HTP and a multivitamin after MDMA use should all but eliminate problems. 200mg is enough to do the trick.
 

Cad0

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Crazeee said:
Moderation is KEY....
Next to moderation also responsibilty is an important keyword ((This discusion delt with that topic earlier)). Since a responsible user should be aware of the fact that, as H. Ellis put it:
"The day has gone by when it could be supposed that a stimulant put anything into a system. It acts not by putting energy into the system but by taking it out…"

Originally posted by Who mE?
My friend has a theory about MDMA... he thinks it makes him smarter because "it kills off the weak braincells so that the strong ones can survive!"... Its "Mental Darwinism"
Heheh, now that is a quality quote :)
 

RosieQ

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yeah yeah. everyone sounds really intelligent in here so i thought i'd post my highly opinionated and notlogical ideas as well.
i've never taken ecstacy, but i am bipolar. the effects of the drug do seem pretty similar to being manic though. i've taken a bit of meth and i feel similarities there too. i don't see why the idea is so shocking really. if you are depressed and start messing around with your chemicals in a recreational way you are going to put yourself even more out of whack. the brains a funny thing and if all people with bipolar disorder had the same problems with their brain itd be as simple as getting the right dose of a fix everyone drug. its not like that. its complicated. pfft..
 
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