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Harm Reduction ⫸The Brain and Addiction⫷

neversickanymore

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babysitting the argument in my head
^ you may have found one of your roots.

You feel that past trauma can doom us to repeat our habits. What if our habits doom us to struggle with the bourdon of past trauma?

If we repeatedly attemt to use drugs to "escape" our problems, then we never end up resolving them and are doomed with their bourdon.
 

Opi_Kid_Rock

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Lost. Always have been it seemed.
I went to an unconventional counselor who said that I should keep the traumatic event that I had experienced separate from my internal emotions. Although it will always be there -as I cannot change the past, try to have it separate from my emotional "self" than always being attached to it SO much. Thank you neversickanymor for continuing the dialogue of the thread; hopefully it helps at least one person out there who struggles and suffers.
 

thokline

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I went to an unconventional counselor who said that I should keep the traumatic event that I had experienced separate from my internal emotions. Although it will always be there -as I cannot change the past, try to have it separate from my emotional "self" than always being attached to it SO much. Thank you neversickanymor for continuing the dialogue of the thread; hopefully it helps at least one person out there who struggles and suffers.
Brain and opiate addiction is much simpler - it’s genetic like diabetes. 18 gene abnormalities gang up to build a flawed mu opioid receptor so external opiates cause a 1000 fold pleasure reward response. 99.5% of people on first opiate get drowsey. 0.5% have gene for addiction - go to the moon it is first symptom of the horrors of the new leprosy. Catch it on first pill. Gotta teach everybody to watch for the tell tale symptom on first opiate ever exposure voila no more suffocating on the streets with cheap shit made by some dude driving lamborghini’s striving for non-pharmaceutical grade. Yeah the high - who wants to give that up ONCE it is rolling be like s drug that everytime you took it you had an orgasm who’d wanna give that up. Why do most quit smoking these days - health nah its social pressure

dr thomas kline thomasklinemd.com twitter same
 

neversickanymore

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Brain and opiate addiction is much simpler - it’s genetic like diabetes. 18 gene abnormalities gang up to build a flawed mu opioid receptor so external opiates cause a 1000 fold pleasure reward response. 99.5% of people on first opiate get drowsey. 0.5% have gene for addiction - go to the moon it is first symptom of the horrors of the new leprosy. Catch it on first pill. Gotta teach everybody to watch for the tell tale symptom on first opiate ever exposure voila no more suffocating on the streets with cheap shit made by some dude driving lamborghini’s striving for non-pharmaceutical grade. Yeah the high - who wants to give that up ONCE it is rolling be like s drug that everytime you took it you had an orgasm who’d wanna give that up. Why do most quit smoking these days - health nah its social pressure

dr thomas kline thomasklinemd.com twitter same
Hey Dr Kline and a warm welcome to this thread. I'm interested in the genetic variances your talking about and would love to read about it and any links you can provide would be much apreciated.

Just listening to this Chronically Human podcast featuring you.
Chronically Human Podcast with Dr Thomas Kline - Pain Patients and the Opioid Crisis

Do you feel that opiates hold a strong specific genetic addiction preference for those prone?

What do you think about a behavioral correlations that physical dependence to opiates and addiction in general both share and how they lead to mass confusion on this determination?
 
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thokline

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Hey Dr Kline and a warm welcome to this thread. I'm interested in the genetic variances your talking about and would love to read about it and any links you can provide would be much apreciated.

Just listening to this Chronically Human podcast featuring you.
Chronically Human Podcast with Dr Thomas Kline - Pain Patients and the Opioid Crisis

Do you feel that opiates hold a strong specific genetic addiction preference for those prone?

What do you think about a behavioral correlations that physical dependence to opiates and addiction in general both share and how they lead to mass confusion on this determination?
yep genetic you can tell immediately on the very first pill instead of sleepy, relaxed you are energized! or high you have triggered the genes no ones fault except the boneheads that will not admit to this this is why the percentage of opiate addicts is the same today(o.5%) as it was in 1925 DEA published a history of drugs and said the same thing for 1970!

I am looking for more proof. I need to know how many serious junkies had their first high on first pills. 99,5% of the population will not get high at all no matter iv Heroin or percocet and never will !!

If you are connected to opiate addicted folks i would like to hear about first experience with any opiate of any type
can reply here but i am having trouble learning the system can reply also to my secure email [email protected] or get some one else to email me just need the story no other info no age sex where you live i want to say i found from 500 heroin addicted people XX percentage had energized reaction to first opiate not drowsy

I am guessing this is what Type 1 addicted alcholol (95%) cocaine amphetamines dont use heroin theoretically no gene for opiate addiction so don't get high what do you think? feel free to email me too

Behavioral component very strong i know a doc who said it was finding the stuff, the needle applying the tourniquet that was the buzz yep gotta look at both the genes (substitution treatment) and the behaviors best experts are those trained in behaviorism not talk therapy like talking to a chromsome

*****

google A118G genetic test soon for opiate addiction (not the others) NO BODIES FAULT like getting diabetes not from doughnuts from GENES sucks really but if those with genes knew what was going on zoom to doctor right away get substitution treatment just like getting insulin get the thing under control fast!!!



^ you may have found one of your roots.

You feel that past trauma can doom us to repeat our habits. What if our habits doom us to struggle with the bourdon of past trauma?

If we repeatedly attemt to use drugs to "escape" our problems, then we never end up resolving them and are doomed with their bourdon.

Behaviorism is very powerful. Why to you think dolphins leap through rings? yep behavior and reward the fish

Have to look as see if behavior rewarded. Feel like crap take something that makes you feel better have just reinforced the behavior of feeling like crap so when you reinforce any behavior the probability increases for more behaviors tricky having said that we doctors have no pill for feeling empty or feeling bad this is not depression it is feeling bad so antidepressants do not work. WE used to have a tonic containing traced of strychnine worked but if you took two teaspoons instead of one- opps We doctors do have one one tonic we use, in older patients with apathy no depression we prescribe ritalin! so there is a feeling like crap treatment from a strictly medical standpoint i think MJ is one of those medicines (in the broadest sense) that help with emptiness, feeling like crap.

Bad trauma that creates PTSD is more complicated. Each person is different. Visualization to throw off the flashback after practice (medication on one pleasant thing you can pull up quickly) some confront make a shrine etc depends on each person no rules one person said i cannot make it go away so will make it better a better flashback

****

Escaping problems: who said that was bad? see bunch of copperheads afraid of snakes avoid depends on what and how much you self medicate with if the substance is ruining your daily life this is my definition of type one addiction. If you involve yourself with substance and it does not ruin your daily life you are not addicted disease is ill at ease

DrK
 
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neversickanymore

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Conditioning and addiction is key. Its not normal conditioning. Addictive drugs manipulate the reward pathway and program in destructive behavior as beneficial behavior. So many people who are not addicts mistakenly assume an intense sensation of pleasure is the underlying reason for an addicts behavior. Its not, its programming into our life promoting drives irrelevant and sometimes negative behavior. In the end pleasure has little or nothing to do with it.

I feel a person really needs to look at and fully understand the system that drives our behavior to clearly see not only what is going on with addiction, but also the human exspierince.
 

emkee_reinvented

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Brain and opiate addiction is much simpler - it’s genetic like diabetes. 18 gene abnormalities gang up to build a flawed mu opioid receptor so external opiates cause a 1000 fold pleasure reward response. 99.5% of people on first opiate get drowsey. 0.5% have gene for addiction - go to the moon it is first symptom of the horrors of the new leprosy. Catch it on first pill. Gotta teach everybody to watch for the tell tale symptom on first opiate ever exposure
Does this in anyway connect's with the theory about why so little of the people receiving Diamorphine, which is medical grade Heroin get addicted? Talking about hip replacement's and such surgery. Where patient's received over 21 days, the point physical dependence should occur. But despite of this only a small percetagage experienced witdrawal symptom's.

(Tried to find some link but no no so if this is true. Probably the Ted_X is traceable, but can you link a you tube vid in here?)



That percentage is probably a few type's of people: genetically predisposed. being in physical or mental pain. And lack of connection and bonding. Which essentialy causes mental pain, a lot I guess.

The whole addiction and need for bonding was in the same Ted_X and it seem's from personal exp a contributing factor. Connection with other's temper's abuse and makes healthy use more appealing. Lower dosing, less often.
The responseability's, to maintain seem to provide some sort of stamina to curb behaviour. Even wd's seem more handleable.

https://brucekalexander.com/articles-speeches/rat-park/148-addiction-the-view-from-rat-park

Anyone else noticed that when there is a emergency with a close one. The substance will loose a large portion of it's normal grip on you. Sometime' s the situation litterally overpowers it. Though Kratom and prescribed Dexamphetamine is lightweight. Knowing how fast a substance can get grip on me I stayed away from Heroin and the other dangerous pitfulls as much as possible. ;) Does it work the same when on Heroin or Coke or Meth?

This thread explained essentially why, you are flooded by your own chemical's in such a situation.

Makes me wonder if people living in small size group's that depend daily on each other. Have a lesser chance to get addicted? And maybe show naturally higher level's of the feel good neurotransmitters?

Good thread btw Thanx.
 
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Zonxx

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i wanted to mention while taking alot of amps, i've researched them a fair amount, and to say they inhibit reuptake of dopamine is incorrect atleast half incorrect, they reverse approx 50% of the neurons from being uptook and force them back into the synapse to be used again, so its a partial reuptake inhibitor, while simutaniously forcing dopamine release.
 

Zonxx

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IMHO Dr. Dr. Brad Lander is indeed on the right track, but has many things mixed up and as a great deal to explore. So I would not let a whole bunch of this bother anyone and Allen Johnsons title is awful. I thought I would add this to the thread so people could consider his take and because he shares some key theoretical aspects with this one.




It is very liberating indeed and once an addict realizes that the unconscious is the cause and that its much more powerful than the conscious it often takes all the guilt and shame out of the equation.
what if one never felt shame for being who they are in the first place, is the unconcious one with the concious at that point? i have never lost a friend due to my drug usage, i've never lied or stolen, i've only ever gone out of my way for others in terms of drugs, but i am able to say i'm a general drug dependent user / addict in my own right, odd, i feel enviroment must play a heavy roll on what one feels especially shame or guilt
i firmly don't believe that being a drug 'addict' changes a person as a whole, we evolve everyday good or bad, if one did things to evolve in a negative manner they can do it again to change positively.
 

emkee_reinvented

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what if one never felt shame for being who they are in the first place, is the unconcious one with the concious at that point? i have never lost a friend due to my drug usage, i've never lied or stolen, i've only ever gone out of my way for others in terms of drugs, but i am able to say i'm a general drug dependent user / addict in my own right, odd, i feel enviroment must play a heavy roll on what one feels especially shame or guilt
i firmly don't believe that being a drug 'addict' changes a person as a whole, we evolve everyday good or bad, if one did things to evolve in a negative manner they can do it again to change positively.
Good point Zonxx, wtf is this for biased non educated fantasy of a most probably sober psych. As if you can no longer be you, on drugs?

Like you wrote about the shame about usage being absent. If shame is the blame them drugs had no doing in it from the start. They would rather look at why drug using people are judged different as any other individual person.

For a fact I know if a person has a history of using drug's, which are all piled up in one big heap offcourse. Excluding Tobacco and not to excessive drinking. Your labeled, and probably seen as one by a certain proportion of the group you recide in.
 
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neversickanymore

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I completely agree. The motivational drive system in our brains is substantial and enjoys many ways of influencing us to do things. Emotions are a powerful drive. Shame is one. We, for the most part, are degrees of social beings and as such feel social influence over our thought and behavior, backed up with emotional motivation. That is another.

When we are exploring addiction we can cut to an initial chase.. why are some of us driven to behavior that results cataclysmic results in important personal and social function?

Given the scope of the system we influenced, the experience is subjective. It uses what works on us personally. Might be the fantasy of achieving that first high, if it ever existed. Maybe initially its pure pleasure, but that fades exponentially. It might chip away at an insecurity until we crack. See we, or generations above us fucked with a powerful drive. The lyrics to this are a testament to this imho.




We or those previouse in our line programmed use into our major drives.
The trick is to beat your system.. or work with it and live a good life and thats subjective.
 
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Dispatchick17

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My anatomy/physiology teacher in high school explained addiction in a pretty simple way that I have never forgotten. When a drug/action is taken that affects the brain, it creates a pathway, or a "ditch," if you will. It is a permanent pathway, carved out in the brain forever. The only thing that will fill that ditch is the original drug/action. Nothing else. The person can move forward without it, but that ditch will forever be there.
 

emkee_reinvented

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My anatomy/physiology teacher in high school explained addiction in a pretty simple way that I have never forgotten. When a drug/action is taken that affects the brain, it creates a pathway, or a "ditch," if you will. It is a permanent pathway, carved out in the brain forever. The only thing that will fill that ditch is the original drug/action. Nothing else. The person can move forward without it, but that ditch will forever be there.
My guess would be, ditch the ditch.

Nothing is forever, mind over matter! :)
 

The Axe

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Dr. Mischel is a brilliant man and his writings are really worth reading. Remember he did the famous "Marshmallow Test" which (if I remember) was where 6 year olds were all given a marshmallow and promised they could have a second one if they could resist eating it say for an hour. There were some who could sit patiently awaiting that second treat while there were those that were in agony and could not be distracted from just obsessing over eating that treat. They then followed these kids to adulthood. And you guessed it. The ones that caved in and at their marshmallow became addicts later in life.
I was the 6 year old who stole the whole bag of marshmallows when the testers weren't looking and then 'helped' them look for it afterwards (they never found it).

I came out of the blackout 3 days later in a motel room with an empty marshmallow bag, a half drunk 6 pack of chocolate milk, and a 5 year old I picked up at a local kindergarten.

It was hell trying to explain to her dad that it was all a simple misunderstanding.
 

The Axe

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To be fair to the other posters on this thread, and not seem like a total jackass, I do remember being taught that there is a problem with communication between the limbic and cortex (I think) for people who have dependency issues. Its a nice thing to know but its not like knowing it is going to change anything. I've turned over responsibility for the whole freaking mess to my doctors. They're doing a pretty good job with it these days.
 
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