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Harm Reduction ⫸Should I Try HEROIN?⫷

well I've already ordered a gram so if it makes it I have no choice but to try it.
 
It's very much like oxy. In my experience the main difference is heroin is more of a sedating high compared to oxy, which is a more stimulating high. But yes, fundamentally it will feel extremely similar.

Honestly, if you're already tried opioids, and found you like it. I simply don't believe you will be able to control your use. Experience, both from my own actions and that of countless others tells me you will be unable to stop or keep it under control.

I would plead and beg you not to go any further if I thought you might listen. But I wouldn't have listened when I was at your point either. Which is why when people ask me if I regret ever trying heroin, I tell them no. I don't regret it, because I don't think there was ever any chance I wouldn't get on it.

I regret what I did in addiction. But I don't regret nor not regret trying it. Because in hindsight it doesn't feel like it was ever a choice. In many ways it feels more like heroin chose me. I'm still responsible for my actions, but I don't believe I ever wouldn't have started using it.


Atelier3 said:
In all seriousness, I've tried to take IV smack 3 times to see what is was about and each time just puked for 5 hours. What's that all about? Am I special? Or is it just a stage you have to go through?

Only asking hypothetically as no interest in downers.
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Not everyone is vulnerable to opioid addiction. Generally speaking, a great many heroin (as well as other opioid) users throw up when they first try it. The ones vulnerable to opioid addiction however, continue to use it regardless.

For some reason I never had much in the way of nausea when first using opioids. For me it was love at first sight.

If you don't see what the fuss is about, I highly recommend counting your blessings, and staying away from opioids.
 
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JessFR said:
It's very much like oxy. In my experience the main difference is heroin is more of a sedating high compared to oxy, which is a more stimulating high. But yes, fundamentally it will feel extremely similar.

Honestly, if you're already tried opioids, and found you like it. I simply don't believe you will be able to control your use. Experience, both from my own actions and that of countless others tells me you will be unable to stop or keep it under control.

I could plead and beg you not to go any further if I thought you might listen. But I wouldn't have when I was at your point either. Which is why when people ask me if I regret ever trying heroin, I tell them no. I don't regret it, because I don't think there was ever any chance I wouldn't get on it.

I regret what I did in addiction. But I don't regret nor not regret trying it. Because in hindsight it doesn't feel like it was ever a choice. In many ways it feels more like heroin chose me. I'm still responsible for my actions, but I don't believe I ever wouldn't have started using it.




Not everyone is vulnerable to opioid addiction. Generally speaking, a great many heroin (as well as other opioid) users throw up when they first try it. The ones vulnerable to opioid addiction however, continue to use it regardless.

For some reason I never had much in the way of nausea when first using opioids. For me it was love at first sight.

If you don't see what the fuss is about, I highly recommend counting your blessings, and staying away from opioids.
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Well I guess i'm fucked then...and I won't be able to flush it down the toilet.
 
JessFR said:
It's very much like oxy. In my experience the main difference is heroin is more of a sedating high compared to oxy, which is a more stimulating high. But yes, fundamentally it will feel extremely similar.

Honestly, if you're already tried opioids, and found you like it. I simply don't believe you will be able to control your use. Experience, both from my own actions and that of countless others tells me you will be unable to stop or keep it under control.

I would plead and beg you not to go any further if I thought you might listen. But I wouldn't have listened when I was at your point either. Which is why when people ask me if I regret ever trying heroin, I tell them no. I don't regret it, because I don't think there was ever any chance I wouldn't get on it.

I regret what I did in addiction. But I don't regret nor not regret trying it. Because in hindsight it doesn't feel like it was ever a choice. In many ways it feels more like heroin chose me. I'm still responsible for my actions, but I don't believe I ever wouldn't have started using it.




Not everyone is vulnerable to opioid addiction. Generally speaking, a great many heroin (as well as other opioid) users throw up when they first try it. The ones vulnerable to opioid addiction however, continue to use it regardless.

For some reason I never had much in the way of nausea when first using opioids. For me it was love at first sight.

If you don't see what the fuss is about, I highly recommend counting your blessings, and staying away from opioids.
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But...I'll be sniffin' it so I guess not as addictive.
 
Specified said:
But...I'll be sniffin' it so I guess not as addictive.
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It's exactly as addictive. Addiction, at least in my experience with heroin addiction, as I said earlier, is a process of continually pushing the line you won't cross effect further back.

You may not be IVing now. You may be certain you won't cross that line. But many others have thought exactly the same thing.

Let me ask you, if you don't mind. Why are you doing this at all?

You've doubtless had many people like me telling you of the dangers. How they told them self exactly the same things and wound up with a severe addiction regardless.

So, faced with people who've experienced it, and tell you that you sound very much like how addiction started for them, why would you continue to take further steps down this path?

Most regular, non drug using people would probably think it was crazy, that you should just toss out the heroin if and when it arrives, to quit now before you go any further.

But will you do that? Or will you take yet another small step? Just trying heroin. After all, it's similar to existing opioids you've tried before. You've largely kept your use of them under control right? If you feel like things are getting out of control, you can always stop then right?

That's all the kinda stuff I and countless others said to ourselves. Does it sound familiar at all?

I want to be clear, I am in no way trying to judge you or insult you here. I'm trying to show you how this happens. How you take these small steps where you seem to have a way out at any time, and still wind up destroying yourself.

If you find any of this insulting or anything, please understand. What I'm saying comes purely from not wanting to see anybody else have to go though the kinda stuff I went though, that I've seen so many go through.
 
JessFR said:
It's exactly as addictive. Addiction, at least in my experience with heroin addiction, as I said earlier, is a process of continually pushing the line you won't cross effect further back.

You may not be IVing now. You may be certain you won't cross that line. But many others have thought exactly the same thing.

Let me ask you, if you don't mind. Why are you doing this at all?

You've doubtless had many people like me telling you of the dangers. How they told them self exactly the same things and wound up with a severe addiction regardless.

So, faced with people who've experienced it, and tell you that you sound very much like how addiction started for them, why would you continue to take further steps down this path?

Most regular, non drug using people would probably think it was crazy, that you should just toss out the heroin if and when it arrives, to quit now before you go any further.

But will you do that? Or will you take yet another small step? Just trying heroin. After all, it's similar to existing opioids you've tried before. You've largely kept your use of them under control right? If you feel like things are getting out of control, you can always stop then right?

That's all the kinda stuff I and countless others said to ourselves. Does it sound familiar at all?

I want to be clear, I am in no way trying to judge you or insult you here. I'm trying to show you how this happens. How you take these small steps where you seem to have a way out at any time, and still wind up destroying yourself.

If you find any of this insulting or anything, please understand. What I'm saying comes purely from not wanting to see anybody else have to go though the kinda stuff I went though, that I've seen so many go through.
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No, none of it was insulting at all. I understand where your coming from and everything and thanks for the detailed posts trying to pursuade me to not use. Why do I want to use? The high, to see what it feels like and also to get some sleep as I don't sleep ANY night. I'm awake 24/7 and don't get tired. I don't know what's wrong with me.
 
Specified said:
No, none of it was insulting at all. I understand where your coming from and everything and thanks for the detailed posts trying to pursuade me to not use. Why do I want to use? The high, to see what it feels like and also to get some sleep as I don't sleep ANY night. I'm awake 24/7 and don't get tired. I don't know what's wrong with me.
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I'm really sorry to hear that. I've long had sleep troubles too, I know how much it can wear you down.

There are other options for sleep than going further down the opioid path though.

Frankly, you already know what it feels like. If you've used oxy, you know what opioids feel like. Heroin is much the same. Now you might very understandably ask, that if it's much the same, why is it so much more dangerous?

And, in the immediate short term, it probably isn't provided it's not adulterated with fentanyl and you don't overestimate how much you should use. Which reminds me. Be VERY careful when you first try it. This is going to vary a lot depending on the quality of heroin in your area and your current tolerance. But when I first started heroin, it took an amazingly small amount to get me really high.

But back onto why I'd say you shouldn't try it even if it's not that different. Heroin is so dangerous because of both its pharmacological effects, and it's social context.

In the case of the former. Heroin is quite short acting. Because of that, it conditions you to constantly be watching the clock. To be under constant and imminent threat of withdrawal. And that's a big part of what causes you to compromise your morals and continue taking step after step into severe addiction from a starting point of stability.

Also, sooner or later if you use regularly. And if you enjoy it, chances are you'll find yourself making more and more justifications to keep using regularly. Eventually your tolerance will cause you to start IVing. And that's a whole problem of its own. It causes you to be exposed to disease. And getting into the social side here. It's about the most socially unacceptable form of drug use. And in my experience that causes you to wind up with a social circle almost exclusively made up of other IV users. And if you work together in any way to pool money to buy heroin as I did, in my experience, your addictions feed off each other and push all parties into being willing to go further and further to keep using.

All in all though. The problem isn't so much heroin. It's not so much that heroin is a point of no return, or that your addiction is manageable before it but not after. The problem is it's another example of pushing the line you won't cross further back.

In my experience, that's how I wind up homeless, begging and prostituting myself for heroin. With every moment of my life from waking up to going to bed being about using. There was no one step that lead me there. It was a million very small steps. Small enough that no one step seemed like the point of no return or the point at which things would go from under control to not.

And deciding to try heroin is just one more of those steps. I'm not so much trying to implore you not to take heroin specifically, but not to take any further steps down this road. To decide now that you've already gone far enough.

As I said, I wouldn't have listened. I wouldn't have stopped even hearing everything I just said. I'm not expecting it to make any difference. But the consequences can be so bad, I figure I have to give it at least a shot right?
 
JessFR said:
I'm really sorry to hear that. I've long had sleep troubles too, I know how much it can wear you down.

There are other options for sleep than going further down the opioid path though.

Frankly, you already know what it feels like. If you've used oxy, you know what opioids feel like. Heroin is much the same. Now you might very understandably ask, that if it's much the same, why is it so much more dangerous?

And, in the immediate short term, it probably isn't provided it's not adulterated with fentanyl and you don't overestimate how much you should use. Which reminds me. Be VERY careful when you first try it. This is going to vary a lot depending on the quality of heroin in your area and your current tolerance. But when I first started heroin, it took an amazingly small amount to get me really high.

But back onto why I'd say you shouldn't try it even if it's not that different. Heroin is so dangerous because of both its pharmacological effects, and it's social context.

In the case of the former. Heroin is quite short acting. Because of that, it conditions you to constantly be watching the clock. To be under constant and imminent threat of withdrawal. And that's a big part of what causes you to compromise your morals and continue taking step after step into severe addiction from a starting point of stability.

Also, sooner or later if you use regularly. And if you enjoy it, chances are you'll find yourself making more and more justifications to keep using regularly. Eventually your tolerance will cause you to start IVing. And that's a whole problem of its own. It causes you to be exposed to disease. And getting into the social side here. It's about the most socially unacceptable form of drug use. And in my experience that causes you to wind up with a social circle almost exclusively made up of other IV users. And if you work together in any way to pool money to buy heroin as I did, in my experience, your addictions feed off each other and push all parties into being willing to go further and further to keep using.

All in all though. The problem isn't so much heroin. It's not so much that heroin is a point of no return, or that your addiction is manageable before it but not after. The problem is it's another example of pushing the line you won't cross further back.

In my experience, that's how I wind up homeless, begging and prostituting myself for heroin. With every moment of my life from waking up to going to bed being about using. There was no one step that lead me there. It was a million very small steps. Small enough that no one step seemed like the point of no return or the point at which things would go from under control to not.

And deciding to try heroin is just one more of those steps. I'm not so much trying to implore you not to take heroin specifically, but not to take any further steps down this road. To decide now that you've already gone far enough.

As I said, I wouldn't have listened. I wouldn't have stopped even hearing everything I just said. I'm not expecting it to make any difference. But the consequences can be so bad, I figure I have to give it at least a shot right?
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Yeah another reason I take drugs is out of strictly boredome and I know this is the worst possible thing you can do to use drugs, but I can't help it. Life is so dull to me.

Yeah, I probably would end up turning to IV after sniffing doesn't work anymore, even though I've sworn i'd never inject and it's not socially acceptable like sniffing or a meth pipe or dropping an E or capsule.

I don't see how I can throw the bag away. As soon as I get drugs I just can't stop looking at them and smelling the bag. I dunno, i'm fucked.
 
When I was in withdrawal, I used to collect all the empty tiny bags of heroin I still had, put water in one, take it out, put it in another, take it out, and so on and so on and then inject it. Even if I'd already done it before, that's how desperate it made me. Occasionally, if there were bags with a little heroin power left, it helped a little. Most of the time it was putting my health at risk for nothing.

Addiction causes you to do crazy stuff.

I wouldn't wish a serious heroin addiction on anybody. Which is why I'll implore you to not take further steps down this path even when I know I wouldn't have listened either.
 
JessFR said:
When I was in withdrawal, I used to collect all the empty tiny bags of heroin I still had, put water in one, take it out, put it in another, take it out, and so on and so on and then inject it. Even if I'd already done it before, that's how desperate it made me. Occasionally, if there were bags with a little heroin power left, it helped a little. Most of the time it was putting my health at risk for nothing.

Addiction causes you to do crazy stuff.

I wouldn't wish a serious heroin addiction on anybody. Which is why I'll implore you to not take further steps down this path even when I know I wouldn't have listened either.
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lol oh yes you would wish a serious heroin addiction on me
 
Looking back I don't regret it, just wish I knew more about the average price as I was the only client paying $30 per point with $230-$240 a gram. They knew I had a lot of money so they tried to take advantage of me. I met another dealer with almost identical stuff and he charged me $140/g - $150/g.

I never got to use needles though all my friends did, my habbit did however climb to 10 points or 1g a day, smoked via tin foil.

Compared to fentanyl it was still very nice as the duration was much longer and more sedating/itchy feeling as opposed to that of fentanyls. The rush however wasn't like that of fentanyls, in terms of strenght however my dope was 48% pure and the fentanyl was almost 100%.

If I had to pick between one or the other, It would all depend on the price. With F I had to smoke all the day as opposed to dope where I would put the tin foild down once in a while. With F it would be glued to my hand and it wasn't uncommon to wake up at night to piss and smoke some (that was never the case with H).
 
JessFR said:
When I was in withdrawal, I used to collect all the empty tiny bags of heroin I still had, put water in one, take it out, put it in another, take it out, and so on and so on and then inject it. Even if I'd already done it before, that's how desperate it made me. Occasionally, if there were bags with a little heroin power left, it helped a little. Most of the time it was putting my health at risk for nothing.

Addiction causes you to do crazy stuff.

I wouldn't wish a serious heroin addiction on anybody. Which is why I'll implore you to not take further steps down this path even when I know I wouldn't have listened either.
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Yes, I used to do this as well. Somehow I convinced myself that if I was going to do heroin, I'd IV it for the rush.
Somehow, the comedown doesn't feel all that bad, yet you know the withdrawal is coming.
I'd inject water and any specks that might look like heroin.

I'd been using opiates on and off since 15 y.o: Morphine, Tramadol, Codeine, Oxycodone. This developed a craving for opiates where I'd drive around pharmacy shopping.
I was 19 y.o when I first IV'd heroin. It demystified injecting and I proceeded to try everything via IV b/c of how heroin was.
Things got much worse.
Heroin was expensive and unsustainable. I tried many different drugs via IV. I got savvy at obtaining more efficiently (all my intelligence utilized for drugs and not much else). I enjoyed the whole process of researching, obtaining, preparing, and using. I was good at it.
This led to the worst years of my life.

Heroin was, I felt, very powerful in terms of how it hijacks your reward system (could be the IV route).
My thoughts, feelings, and actions became centered around ways to use/obtain heroin more and/or more effectively.
Almost like in my subconscious I knew if I got more addicted, maybe I'll have the resources/desperation to use all the time.
I'd dream about injecting, seeing the blood, being high, etc.

Alas, it is a pipe dream you play with your own being. It all feels so primal, its just one strong hunger to the next.
Heroin was a roller coaster of emotion and desire - apathy, to drooling bliss, to recovering/obtaining again.
You know the urge/desire is chemically induced, relapsing will be bad, but you'll figure it out/reduce your dose tomorrow, while your tolerance increases and withdrawal looms.

I just couldn't logic/reason my way out of it. The urge was too strong for me to be fighting all the time.
I was young, depressed, anxious, and didn't appreciate the gifts I had.
I used to seriously consider finding a way to be able to use daily (one big score, etc.).

I would say no for trying heroin, you might not have problems with it now, but you'll always know where to get it.
It also becomes another way to self-sabotage when you feel vulnerable.
All the "well fuck it then, I'll do it" because xyz....or the emotional bursts (anger, guilt, shame) pushing you down that path.
Even after you see how it makes you, you still want it so bad. It's a lot to fight against, especially when you are weak and/or in withdrawal.

A whole year of my life working for that weekend high, what a waste. The rush felt nice in the beginning, then I would take such a dose that it would really fuck me up . I would just pass out doing nothing all day or waiting for next time, counting the hours. I might have even thought I was cool for doing it, /sigh. I used to love the vomiting, made it feel better after. I hated how it made me socially when I was really high (irritated, annoying, kind of a dick). Yet I didn't care about how they felt, I felt great and wanted to talk shit.

Suboxone helped immensely with opiate cravings, been on it around 5 years now. It's enough for me, gives a bit of an opiate feeling, but you can still function at work/school.
Tapering was easy under Dr. supervision, but being sober with no opiates in my system was harder than I expected, so I'm back on it.

-----------------

I was young and reckless. I used for all the worst reasons (running away, depressed, anxious, etc.).
I wish I'd waited until I got out of that adolescent, reckless, young male stage of life (16-25), I might have appreciated life a bit more.
A lot of suffering could have been avoided. I owe my family everything.

Be very careful - it's a long way to the bottom, things can usually get worse.

Hope my experience helps.
 
I don't get the fuzz about heroin. I've been using it sporadically for two or three years.
In my opinion, doctor prescribed medicine are far worse than H.
Benzos, SSRI, SNRI, anti-psychotics - those are the monsters if such concept could be assigned to drugs,

I'm saving money to move to a remote location where poppys grow wild - and I'll never come down again.
 
pulverstaden said:
I don't get the fuzz about heroin. I've been using it sporadically for two or three years.
In my opinion, doctor prescribed medicine are far worse than H.
Benzos, SSRI, SNRI, anti-psychotics - those are the monsters if such concept could be assigned to drugs,

I'm saving money to move to a remote location where poppys grow wild - and I'll never come down again.
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So you don't get the fuss about it and only use sporadically, but you want to uproot your entire life and are actively working towards cultivating a new life, that centers entirely around harvesting poppy alone in the wild so you can literally be high 24/7 by yourself? These two stances kinda seem to be at odds with each other man...
 
Ticket said:
So you don't get the fuss about it and only use sporadically, but you want to uproot your entire life and are actively working towards cultivating a new life, that centers entirely around harvesting poppy alone in the wild so you can literally be high 24/7 by yourself? These two stances kinda seem to be at odds with each other man...
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Beat me too it. :)

Honestly I sometimes have similar fantasies. But I'm in no denial that I suffer from a serious addiction to a very powerful drug.
 
I totally understand the fantasy, and I'd be lying if I said that similar thoughts haven't occurred to me at various points too. But realistically, harvesting morphine from wild poppies would be so labor intensive for such a small yield, it's really a bit of a nonsense dream. You could start growing poppies yourself, but that's even more work, and takes lots of planning and self control. Maybe you could build up a big enough supply to get yourself nice and addicted, but an addiction is not something you want! Imagine living alone out in the woods, you're farming and harvesting poppies all day every day to keep yourself from getting sick, and when you're not working the land to get the drugs you're using the drugs, high all the time, not a particularly productive state, but if you ever want to not be doing that - or maybe there's a fire, or flood, or pests, or just a bad growing season whatever - you're gonna be sick as a dog. Wanting to be high 24/7 is a pretty good sign that there's a psychological dependence already, and eventually your life revolves around just not being sick. That's the price of opiate addiction. It's so insidious.
 
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