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Treatment Methadone or Suboxone?

Optioidmistic

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Hello all!

I had a five year IV habit with H that never really got too up there, but nonetheless it was five years of daily use if I could help it. I moved and became abstinent for five years where I was smoking weed like it was my life support. I recently relapsed, and I've been smoking it again daily for two years now. I am currently on suboxone, but I'm struggling with withdrawal (chills, sweats, hot flashes, mild RLS, anxiety) and obsessive cravings where I often end up using in the evening. This isn't like my first suboxone experience where it snuffed out my desire to use completely. This time it's leaving me very wanting. No matter the dose I take at 8am I am withdrawaling by 4-5pm. Yesterday I took spare suboxone in 1mg increments when the withdrawal returned to try and combat this, and ended up taking 4mg extra on top of my 8mg dose, and I was still trying desperately to score. If my connections didn't fail me I'd have been warm and cozy instead of up all night in half withdrawal. I am considering switching to methadone. I won't lie that I still want to feel a full agonist badly. It makes me feel like life is right. I don't quite care anymore to fight my way into abstinence. I am not sure it's going to work out for me the same way it did before. I straight up don't want it like I did before. I'm not even sure I was ever feeling fulfilled.

I want to know how you guys that have experienced both feel about them, and if you've been on methadone for a while specifically - does it still satisfy you at your "stable" dose, or does tolerance rob that satisfaction from you at some point? If you've been at a stable dose for a length of time how do you feel now? Do you acknowledge that you've taken an opiate when you dose and feel thankful as someone that loves opiates, or are you in the camp that has grown to hate it?

Side note - my counselor is pushing very hard for me to get on an antidepressant. I've been on them all, and I don't like them. Opiates give me what I perceive as relief, motivation, and happiness. I have been on all manner of SSRI, SNRI, Wellbutrin, and some benzos. Of course I liked the benzos, but I don't care to be on something that can kill me if I can't get it, and my father was an alcoholic. Maybe that's why I don't like them or booze so much. I've quit them all and never looked back.

Thanks a ton!
 
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I've known people who went from Suboxone to methadone and regretted it.

Then again if you're relapsing a lot with Suboxone and it's not making you feel well, even at high doses (and do work with your doctor and be honest about what you're experiencing) then you might want to try methadone, but I would literally give Suboxone like 10,000 attempts before I'd go on methadone personally.

I also know people whose lives were effectively saved by going on methadone for short or long term. So it's hard to say man.

Going from Suboxone -> Methadone = easy.

Methadone -> Suboxone transitions = very painful and difficult.

So if you go on methadone and you regret the decision, you're up a creek and will have to paddle with your hands.
 
Hello. I've been on both methadone and suboxone maintenance, and they affected me very differently.
While on methadone I felt good... I slept well, ate well, I had energy to get things done, and usually I was in a positive mood. I never went above 80mg, and I'm over six feet tall and over 200 pounds. Both times I tapered off the clinic, it was fairly easy. The second time I jumped from 12mg to nothing, and I definitely felt a change in my mood and motivation, but I felt very little withdrawal.
Suboxone was a different story. I never felt comfortable on my dose, and the urge to use, although lessened, was pretty strong. They started me at 8mg and suggested going up, but within a week or two, I was cutting my dose in half, and I found myself saving the difference for future relapses. I stayed on it a couple months, until I convinced myself it wasn't helping me, and I jumped off at one mg.
The clinicians told me that one mg was safe to jump from, and I figured it was as well. Although the WDs were never severe, I definetly felt "icky", as my best way of explaining it, for weeks. I could never seem to get comfortable and I just wanted to crawl out of my skin at times. Sleep was very tough. Suboxone never gave me the warmer, more comfortable feeling that I got from methadone or my DOC. After 21 days of the icky feeling, I went back to using.
I should mention that I was on methadone for about two years, whereas suboxone was only a few months, and it was a few years later in life, and our body changes. Even still, I personally would be afraid to ever be on suboxone for more than a week, I would only use it for short term WD tapers, but I would definitely consider getting back on methadone maintenance.
Thats just my experience.
 
I've also been on both. My experience is different.

I was on 120mg of methadone and was sick everyday by 4pm. I told my counselor, and he kept saying it was psychological. It was not. I was restless, cold sweats, couldn't sleep, etc. Through a blood test, they found out I was an abberant metabolizer. My level was so low in the morning, they wondered if I was really swallowing it. I had to split dose. Then I was ok

I would feel methadone for a couple hours after taking it. Got the energy boost and relaxed feeling. But only for about 2hrs. I could feel dope, at 120mgs. I still had cravings. I wasn't a big fan of methadone. But, this is just my personal experience.

I'm on Subutex now. I have been for almost a year. I get cravings on this too. I still use about 2x a month. I'm stable on it.

I've come to the conclusion that its not the meds. Im the problem. It's up to me to participate in my recovery.

OP, it sounds like you're re-inducting. Did you do dope for a week and you're getting back on your subs? If that's the case, you're not going to be feel great for a few days. It takes me 4-5 days to stabilize on subs.

When I'm stable on Subs, I'm really ok with everything. I'm honestly ready to stop doing dope. But, my husband isn't quite ready to totally stop. So it makes it difficult.

Something, I wanted to add. When my husband is on the right amount of Sub, it takes away all his cravings. Which is a miracle.

Im ok with Subutex. OP, do you want to stop?
 
Thanks for the great answers so far. I have been using 4mg of suboxone daily and still doing dope at night if I can. If I can't do dope I will take another 4mg in the late afternoon. I want to stop, but I also don't. The only reason I'm not doing methadone is I don't want to be tied to a clinic daily, but if I'm willing to see the dope man every day I'm starting to wonder if it's such a big deal. I have a girlfriend that likes to travel, and being stuck for my addiction isn't going to be icing on the cake. I love the thought of being on methadone. I truly believe I'm only using subs as a stabilizer so I can get by without being full-on sick when I'm out of money or whatever. I just use on top of the subs so I don't need to worry over precipitated withdrawal.

If I could snap my fingers and go back to myself a few years ago that was clean I would. I am totally obsessed with dope again. I take every opportunity and every last spare dollar for it and then some even on subs. I feel that if my girlfriend and my mom weren't influencing how I handle this situation I'd go to methadone in a heartbeat. I feel like it would be the answer. I just always have it in the back of my mind that my mom will be across the country thinking I'm ruined, and I worry my girlfriend will be judging me the same. They are not addicts. I almost feel like shedding their judgements and going on methadone, and my hope is I'd have what I want and they'd see the results through me being happy and being able to focus on life again. Is this just my mind seeking drugs? Can methadone satisfy this stupid romance I have with dope? I feel like it would. Has anyone had this dilemma? I feel almost as if I won't give myself permission to take methadone because I'll be judged. Suboxone I can of course easily hide, but I'm constantly planning my next high. If I take enough suboxone sometimes I feel semi-ok, but once tolerance hits I'm concerned that I'll fill the void with dope and end up in a really jacked situation with a sky-high tolerance.

To respond to my initial post I have found that I can split my 8mg dose in half to get through the day, but there is always a window of time before I redose where I am questioning if I can get something instead. I wouldn't call it re-inducting. I never stop taking at least 2-4mg. I did have a 2-day stretch of not using due to not being able to find my DOC where I started feeling ok, but I just waited patiently until that third day when the dude started answering his phone again. I am frustrated with myself. I can step back and see the madness of doing something that's driving away my longtime girlfriend and nearly landing me with unpaid rent/bills, but on I go...
 
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It doesn't sound like suboxone is working well for you. If the desire to use is as strong as you describe it, it sounds like you either aren't stabilized on the right dose, or maybe suboxone just isn't for you.
I also had those strong cravings to use while on subs. The doctors told me that I would get sick if I used on top of the subs, and I didn't take the time to research subs at the time, so I took their word for it, and it kept me off dope. When I got off subs though, the seemingly endless feeling that I was going through mild WDs along with the cravings that never seemed to diminish, led me back to using after three weeks.
Methadone on the other hand made me feel good enough that I didn't have those cravings. It was still in the back of my mind, but I didn't feel that strong urge to use, and I was able to stay off dope throughout maintenance. By the time I got off of it, I had a whole new routine that didn't involve dope, and I didn't experience much WD at all, so I was able to stay clean for a fairly long time.
I agree, the suboxone clinic was much easier than standing in line every morning at the methadone clinic, and that's what led me to consider subs as an alternative. Looking back, I personally was in a much better place physically and mentally on methadone, so it was worth the extra time and inconvenience.
I like how you said that you don't like going to the clinic every day, but if you are willing to see the dope man that often, then maybe it's not a big deal. You're right, it really isn't when you look at it that way.
I also can relate strongly to your last sentence. Stepping back and seeing the madness destroying your life, but on you go. I don't know how so many people stay on that roller coaster without falling apart. Right now, I'm sitting next to a stack of bills, and my rent is already past due, but through the grace of god I finally am using that shovel to try to dig myself out of a hole that I had dug so deep while I'm using.
I sincerely hope that you find a way to stop using, and find something that allows you to feel stable again so that you don't continue to hurt your relationship with your girlfriend or your family. You aren't alone in this.
 
I think methodone is a superior maintenance drug as far as craving relief goes. But the clinic system is a major downside.
 
Thanks a lot for showing up to give me these great insights everyone - especially Travis for answering my post in such detail. I have been able to put off getting high a few days at a time recently. My full 8mg dose made me very uncomfortable and fired up feeling when I was taking it. The last few days I've been only taking 1mg a day and I'm not really sick, but having thoughts about planning my next use. I frequently fight with my girlfriend and have talks with her where I cannot explain away the recent past to her and it makes me want to go use even more because I get very emotional. In fact the rough talk I just had with her where she kept bringing up my wrongs as of late made me want to use bad. I took a suboxone instead because I knew it would make things worse if I went out the door, but I also told myself I'd for sure be going to the clinic Monday morning because I know I won't be this responsible every time. I have a lot of repairs to do on this relationship at least as long as I still have it.

I told my counselor about thinking of switching to methadone to solve these issues, but he straight up said nnnNO. That won't help at all. He thinks 100% that I am chasing a high. I don't honestly feel that I'm chasing a high so much as I am chasing a sense of satisfaction and stability. How do you even tell the difference? He even made me stop and think. Then I got frustrated that night and got very upset. That made me a little bummed out at my "great idea" seemingly absolutely ridiculous to him. My doctor right now is a jackass. The last run of Suboxone I had was much more successful all around, but that doctor is gone. I have two options in this city. The one I'm at that doesn't seem to treat me based on what I say at all, and just repeats the same shit over and over no matter what I say to him, or the great people at the methadone clinic that also offers suboxone, but again I'm not having the experience I had last time with suboxone and I do not know why, and I don't see how another person writing the prescription can change that. The first time it was a magic bullet. This time no matter the dose I take it doesn't hold me all day, and I feel like I'm not satisfied. I'm always at 80% once the initial feeling of it kicking in goes away and later on it's: "hmm, more suboxone, or get dope..". I feel like I can't afford to have that consideration come into my mind when I'm trying to use a maintenance drug.

Something I am wanting to know is what a stable dose of methadone will feel like in comparison to suboxone. I understand people say they feel "normal" - does that go to say they aren't high, but you are well aware you've satisfied those screaming receptors, or do you really feel stark normal after a while? Even when I do a little dope that isn't enough to get me high I feel it in my body and get kind of happy it's there. Is that comparable to the methadone maintenance experience?

Another thought just popped into my mind about my current suboxone experience is that it almost feels like it's teasing me. I can feel it in there, but it's not doing what a full agonist would, and I KNOW it! lol. I actually didn't want to take it at all last night and let myself withdrawal quite a lot because I got frustrated. I only finally took 1mg so I could sleep, and it ended up holding me until now, but at the time I was dead set on not taking it anymore with the intent of detoxing over the weekend. I have quickly reconsidered how bad that could go, and I can't be cancelling suboxone appointments without something else to keep me stable. High doses of suboxone make me feel too stimulated, and I am certainly not about that. I have always been about cool and calm.
 
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I definitely knew I took an opiate every morning but in a good way. When you first get on you'll be semi high everyday for awhile. After a few months you get the feeling less and less but i never got that receptor empty feeling that I get from sub sometimes. After 2 years I still felt good for a couple hours after dosing everyday.

Suboxone just never satisfied my cravings. I went through life constantly teetering on the edge of relapse. It was stressful. Getting on methadone changed things. I no longer had any opiate cravings. I definitely chased the high at first. I ran my dose up too 170mg. But once they stopped me from going up higher I settled in and my life improved.

Unfortunately I fell into the "good enough" trap and I didn't address my other mental health issues. I think getting on methadone could be a solid decision for you. You've obviously tried other things and given it thought do it's not a rash decision. The clinic gets a bad rap so I wouldn't expect many pats on the back but it's about you no one else.


I
 
I brought it up with my counselor again and he snipped at me immediately. I asked him why, and he said the evidence shows that it isn’t working. I thought that was quite the contrary? He said he’ll bring in some “information” for me.

Another thing I am struggling with is boredom. Once I have idle moments to fill it’s like I have no motivation to do stuff I used to enjoy. I have been going to the gym with my girlfriend, but once that’s over and I’m back on my own it’s a struggle. I love playing the guitar, but I can’t stick with it. Is it bad thinking that I feel like I’d feel good enough on methadone to enjoy things again?
 
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Hey Optioid!

Honestly, in the end, you have to do what's right for you. It sounds like you at least want the option to try methadone to see if it's a better fit.

You should try it then. That's my opinion. As cj said, you've obviously thought this through. Different things work for different people.

Keep in mind, recovery isn't easy. Addiction is just a symptom of something else going on. Get involved in your recovery. Not just the ORT part. Go to meetings you like. They're are different types.

Unstructured time is also a bad idea. Plan your days, and stick to a schedule the best you can. Do you have any untreated mental/emotional issues that need attention? If so, that's priority As you know, feeling upset and overwhelmed either triggers cravings or using.

This may involve forcing yourself at first. It's definitely not easy. But, very much worth it. Good luck! You can do this.
 
Like I said in an earlier post methodone is highly stigmatized even by people who should know better. But if you look at the studies it is the most effective treatment available in the US for opiate addiction. Ive seen studies with success rates as high as 65 percent.
 
Hey, optiod. I hope you are giving yourself some credit for at least abstaining from using as much as you have. Getting confronted by a loved one always made me feel like running out the door to see the dopeman too, and I usually did, but you at least are strong enough, determined enough, and smart enough to stay home, take a sub, and face the music. That tells me that you really want to get better and try to live a normal life again.

I had a very similar experience to CJ with methadone. Once I got stabilized, those strong cravings to use just turned into a thought in the back of my head. I too never felt the 'receptor empty' feeling or the mind torture of addictive thoughts like I did on suboxone. If I knew at the time that I could've gotten high while on subs, I probably would have, mainly just to feel better. With methadone, I never felt the need to feel better, because I just felt good. I never got a feeling like I was 'high' from it, but I did feel a positive change in my mood and energy, and I became reinterested in my hobbies. To me, I felt like how 'normal' non-addicted people seem to feel every day, if that makes any sense.

I too didn't address my underlying issues though, so when I began decreasing my dose, my addictive mind started to plan the next high, but that's a different story. For now, it sounds like you just want to feel better and stop these cravings, and you can focus on how you will face them when you are off maintenance once you get stabilized and it's time to cross that bridge.

I'm wondering if your sub Doctor is trying to steer you from methadone because he doesn't want to lose a client... I mean a patient. I try to give doctors the benefit of the doubt, and believe that they only want to help people, but some of their dialogue and practices remind me that these clinics are also a business, and businesses want to retain their clients.

It's tough to try to explain what you are going through to a loved one, when they haven't battled these demons themselves. I hope she continues to listen to you, and sees the continued effort that you are putting into this. I strongly feel like you are at least facing the right direction towards recovery. My prayers go out to you.
 
You guys rock. Thanks a lot for helping me with your experiences. I’ve missed my clinics intake days for this week to give the subs at least 7 more days to see if things change. Come Monday or Tuesday next week I’ll definitely let you know if I’ve made any changes, and how that goes.

Stargazer - to answer you about the possible untreated mental/emotional issues - I just don’t know. I am seeing a counselor outside of my suboxone clinic. I do feel pretty noticeable agitation, and a bit depressed at my predicament. I relate it mostly to my dependence, and side effects of suboxone (specifically the agitation). I never believed in seeking antidepressants to treat depression caused by what I think to be withdrawal, or induced as a side effect of suboxone. I have no interest in piling on drugs the way I perceive to be the general practice of mental health today. I surely do use to self medicate at times, and sometimes because I’m addicted to the fun I think I get out of it, but I’d hope to sort that out well after I’ve found stability with my dependence to opioids so I’m sure of it.

That is another issue I’m finding - suboxone has been making me have to suppress a new level of agitation I’m not accustomed to. Does methadone share that effect? You’d think exercise would mute that down, but if anything it’s unaffected, or worse after I hit the gym!

Sadly if I haven’t mentioned it my suboxone doctor speaks very muddy English, and seems to prescribe based on his standards and beleifs - not to my symptoms. He had me on a rollercoaster for a while where he couldn’t find the metabolite nor buprenorphine in my urinalysis, and he’d chop my dose from 8 to 2 “, and accuse my of diversion while he sent my urine to another lab until the next week. Then he’d say they found it and raised my dose back up to 8. He’s done this three times. I asked him if he could do any tests to discover why this would be happening, and he didn’t answer my concerns. He’s LAME.

Thanks !!

Optioid
 
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The agitation is a Suboxone specific side effect in my experience. I get it too when I take too much. I never felt that way on methadone. If you decide to stay on sub you should find a new doctor. That guy sounds like a moron. Many of these docs get into prescribing sub for the money not to help people. They often have no background in addiction medicine outside the 8 hour class to get a sub license. Not listening to your concerns will only hamper your recovery.

It's funny to me how people try to say methadone clinics are shady when they are far more regulated then a Suboxone doctor.

Keep us updated on whats going on and any questions you have
 
Your Dr. sounds like a douchebag. Mine kind of is too - and the staff is even worse than her.

She's Asian, and her English isn't the best and I often wonder if we're on the same page with things.

I went through benzos coming up in my urine, and I wasn't taking any. It happened 3x in a row. I was beside myself. There are times that I need a benzo due to anxiety, and can't take them obviously because of being on Subutex. I felt like shit I might as well take one when I need to, I'm coming up positive anyway.

During the time I was coming up positive, I noticed her urine cups had changed. They looked different than they had before. Then they went back to the ones she had before, and I stopped coming up positive for benzos.

It was a really stressful thing. I think she was getting ready to D/C me as a patient. The staff was treating me like a criminal. I always feel like I'm on shaky ground at this office. It's just a feeling of they're not concerned if you're a patient there or not. Its an underlying feeling there.

I mentioned the mental health issues because I had unaddressed issues for a long time. I suffered from anxiety and panic attacks my whole life. A large part of opiate abuse for me, was due to those issues. Then, I was diagnosed with Bipolar II, and alot of stuff finally made sense.

I was also put on Neurontin. Initially, it was for nerve pain (I have neurological chronic pain), it didn't help much for nerve pain. But, it helped alot with anxiety and panic attacks. In a life-changing way. I felt, how Travis explains feeling on methadone, normal. Not a nervous wreck, with racing thoughts and a constant, dark, negative cloak over my life. It was scary. That's the only way I can describe it. After being on proper meds, it was like the sunshine peeked through the clouds for the first time. Not the unsustainable euphoria I felt on oxys and dope, but a realistic feeling of optimism. Like what "normal" people feel like.

In really grateful, that out of all the devastation and pain I've been through, I, at least got stabilized on the correct meds. For me, meds are necessary.

But, they're not the only thing necessary. I have more work to do towards my sobriety. I'm still using about twice a month. It's due to a couple factors that I have to get figured out.

I don't feel agitated on subs. That has to suck. I wouldn't like that. I can understand why you don't.

Like Travis said, you need to give yourself credit for making a real effort at trying to do the right thing. I know the feeling of wanting to get high when really stressed. Especially by my husband. You're going to get this figured out. Hang in there and keep us updated.
 
Hi Optoid,
I'm in a similar situation. My doctor has me on 24 mg subs a day and I am still using (a few times) despite facing 10 years in prison if I fail a UA for my PO. It's insane! I am also considering going to methadone. I have been on it in the past but only for super short periods because I would go out and use again. I am at a place in my life now that I hate the H but I don't know how to live w/o it?! It has been my loyal companion for 7 plus years! I recently made a huge geographic change (Hawaii to California) for the sake of my sobriety but the location isn't the issue.. I am! I am trying to weigh out the pros and cons of subs and methadone. I feel like I am giving up some how and just taking the easy road out by going to the clinic. I hate that I get so agitated on Subs... it's not my personality to feel like that. It is so strange to feel anything I guess after so many years of IV drug use! I hate the weight gain that comes along with the methadone. I am way too vain to be okay with that? Does anyone have any input as to how to not turn into fat ass on methadone? Is methadone giving up? Should I try to stabilize on my subs before I give into the clinic? I know I can only answer these questions but I guess it feels good to get it out.. I have been isolating in my room alone for 3 months with the exception of going to the sub Dr and going to get dope a few times. I know I have some pretty extreme PTSD but I can't begin to deal with it rn.. I don't know how to. I see a counselor once a week but I just bullshit her. It is way too painful to begin to even imagine putting the words to my mouth of some of the shit I have been through. Thanks for letting me vent! My real reason for posting that got lost in my sob story boo hoo is...Optioid how are you doing?
 
Realname4sur3 getting on methadone isn't giving up and it's certainly not the easy way. I think you should do whatever it takes to stay out of prison. If Suboxone isn't cutting it then it's silly to just keep taking it
 
Hello all!

I had a five year IV habit with H that never really got too up there, but nonetheless it was five years of daily use if I could help it. I moved and became abstinent for five years where I was smoking weed like it was my life support. I recently relapsed, and I've been smoking it again daily for two years now. I am currently on suboxone, but I'm struggling with withdrawal (chills, sweats, hot flashes, mild RLS, anxiety) and obsessive cravings where I often end up using in the evening. This isn't like my first suboxone experience where it snuffed out my desire to use completely. This time it's leaving me very wanting. No matter the dose I take at 8am I am withdrawaling by 4-5pm. Yesterday I took spare suboxone in 1mg increments when the withdrawal returned to try and combat this, and ended up taking 4mg extra on top of my 8mg dose, and I was still trying desperately to score. If my connections didn't fail me I'd have been warm and cozy instead of up all night in half withdrawal. I am considering switching to methadone. I won't lie that I still want to feel a full agonist badly. It makes me feel like life is right. I don't quite care anymore to fight my way into abstinence. I am not sure it's going to work out for me the same way it did before. I straight up don't want it like I did before. I'm not even sure I was ever feeling fulfilled.

I want to know how you guys that have experienced both feel about them, and if you've been on methadone for a while specifically - does it still satisfy you at your "stable" dose, or does tolerance rob that satisfaction from you at some point? If you've been at a stable dose for a length of time how do you feel now? Do you acknowledge that you've taken an opiate when you dose and feel thankful as someone that loves opiates, or are you in the camp that has grown to hate it?

Side note - my counselor is pushing very hard for me to get on an antidepressant. I've been on them all, and I don't like them. Opiates give me what I perceive as relief, motivation, and happiness. I have been on all manner of SSRI, SNRI, Wellbutrin, and some benzos. Of course I liked the benzos, but I don't care to be on something that can kill me if I can't get it, and my father was an alcoholic. Maybe that's why I don't like them or booze so much. I've quit them all and never looked back.

Thanks a ton!

OK I'm gonna preface this by saying I've never been on subuxone. I've known a lot of people who have, but in the end I don't have first hand experience with subuxone.

With that in mind, I think you should either try and significantly increase your subuxone dose (assuming you are currently at 8mg as your posts seemed to indicate). Or if that doesn't work or you don't think it would help, I would switch to methadone.

It's long been my opinion based on what I've seen that methadone is more appropriate for more severe habits, and subuxone more appropriate for milder habits. Subuxones ability to reduce withdrawal has an upper limit, and that limit can be too low for some people's habits. I have no doubt that would have been the case for me which is why me and my doctor agreed to go with methadone instead of subuxone from the beginning.

I think some people's tolerances are too high for subuxone to be effective, and those people would likely benefit from methadone. Other people with milder tolerances on the other hand are likely to find methadone too strong and would benefit more from subuxone. It sounds to me like you might be in the former camp rather than the latter, like myself.

You could try increasing your subuxone dose first, but there's an upper limit to that. It doesn't sound like you've reached the ceiling dose yet, but when you do, if you're still uncomfortable, I'd strongly consider switching to methadone.

If you're still craving heroin and are uncomfortable, then subuxone as you're currently taking it isn't effective. You shouldn't feel like that.

I've been on a stable 80mg of methadone for a couple years now, and yes it still satisfies my desire to use heroin. I've found it to be very effective. I have not grown to hate it and I do feel it satisfies my craving for opioids. I would honestly say methadone has saved my life and I have no doubt I would have continued spiraling downwards without it.

It's not the best choice for everyone. But if increasing your subuxone dose further doesn't stop you feeling like this, I think you'd be a good candidate for methadone instead.

Don't listen to people just entirely dismissing methadone. Some people have found methadone inappropriate for them, others like myself have found it no less than life saving. It's a tried and true therapy that is the best option available in some cases. If subuxone is inadequate for you and you feel substitution therapy is what you need, then methadone is well worth a try.
 
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Hello all!

I had a five year IV habit with H that never really got too up there, but nonetheless it was five years of daily use if I could help it. I moved and became abstinent for five years where I was smoking weed like it was my life support. I recently relapsed, and I've been smoking it again daily for two years now. I am currently on suboxone, but I'm struggling with withdrawal (chills, sweats, hot flashes, mild RLS, anxiety) and obsessive cravings where I often end up using in the evening. This isn't like my first suboxone experience where it snuffed out my desire to use completely. This time it's leaving me very wanting. No matter the dose I take at 8am I am withdrawaling by 4-5pm. Yesterday I took spare suboxone in 1mg increments when the withdrawal returned to try and combat this, and ended up taking 4mg extra on top of my 8mg dose, and I was still trying desperately to score. If my connections didn't fail me I'd have been warm and cozy instead of up all night in half withdrawal.

Seems like this is a common espierince when people flip frequently between using and Suboxone.

Others emphasized that buprenorphine is a “weird” drug and its effectiveness declines when users repeatedly switch back and forth between buprenorphine and heroin or other opioids:

I agree that Suboxone is a life saver, but be careful! I had the attitude that because I had Suboxone, I could do as much dope as I wanted, because if I was gonna get sick, I could just take my subs… . What I didn’t realize is the more times you switch between full agonists and subs, the less effective the subs become.


I spent a few years going back and forth from subs to heroin. This worked well for some time. About a year ago, I tried to get stable on Subutex again. It just wasn’t working! I tried high doses, I tried low doses…. It was exactly like cold turkey WD. I mean the subs did nothing for me. I believe with the all switching back and forth from subs to dope, it somehow made the subs completely ineffective for me.
“Sub is a weird drug:” A Web-based study of lay attitudes about use of buprenorphine to self-treat opioid withdrawal symptoms



I am considering switching to methadone. I won't lie that I still want to feel a full agonist badly. It makes me feel like life is right. I don't quite care anymore to fight my way into abstinence. I am not sure it's going to work out for me the same way it did before. I straight up don't want it like I did before. I'm not even sure I was ever feeling fulfilled.

I want to know how you guys that have experienced both feel about them, and if you've been on methadone for a while specifically - does it still satisfy you at your "stable" dose, or does tolerance rob that satisfaction from you at some point? If you've been at a stable dose for a length of time how do you feel now? Do you acknowledge that you've taken an opiate when you dose and feel thankful as someone that loves opiates, or are you in the camp that has grown to hate it?

Methadone therapy Is demon bitch to leave if you ever want or need to. Acute withdrawal onset and duration lengths are determined by half life. Methadone's half life is very individual in nature. The longest half life recorded for it was 190 hours. For most people the acute withdraws last three to four weeks. These are often followed by months of PAWS. I detoxed 80mgpd methadone, 260 mgpd Roxy and 4 mgpd alprazolam, over five years ago, upon resolution of an illness. I was in acute withdraw for almost three months and that was followed by nine months of strong PAWS. Three months of acute is enough time to detox heroin 12 times. Methadone is a powerful drug and it effects quite a few receptors. These interactions can effect our lives and health and may make withdrawal and PAWS even more miserable.



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Neuropathic Pain: Causes, Management and Understanding



Side note - my counselor is pushing very hard for me to get on an antidepressant. I've been on them all, and I don't like them. Opiates give me what I perceive as relief, motivation, and happiness. I have been on all manner of SSRI, SNRI, Wellbutrin, and some benzos. Of course I liked the benzos, but I don't care to be on something that can kill me if I can't get it, and my father was an alcoholic. Maybe that's why I don't like them or booze so much. I've quit them all and never looked back.

You have been using opioids in various forms for awhile now. Chronic use of opiates can effect our systems and two common effects they can have are on Testosterone and Vitamin D levels. Reduction of these levels can have significant symptoms. I would consider getting your levels checked and regularly monitored while in methadone or suboxone therapy and also I you are using. Depression, motivation, muscle and bone pain, anxiety etc etc are all symptoms of lowered levels of one or both of these. If the levels come back low you may have identified the root cause.

Hypogonadism in men receiving methadone and buprenorphine maintenance treatment.

8 Signs and Symptoms of Vitamin D Deficiency

Signs and Symptoms of Low Testosterone in Men

Just a heads up that a few benzos synergize powerfully with methadone and can and do cause OD death. If you decide to go with the methadone I would avoid that trap as its no place you want to find yourself and finding your way back out is misery.

Hope this post helps and you make your way to where you want to be.
 
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