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As an Addict, is this humane?

Kmccartttt

Bluelighter
Joined
Jan 23, 2019
Messages
52
In Massachusetts, you can be held against your o own self will as a drug addict. They claim you?re a danger to yourself and consider you a civil commit. Read this article as members of the Massachusetts community have been held against there will an have been called names such as junkie, loser, retard, and treated like criminals. I, as both a member of the Massachusetts community, and also a section 35 patient, I have experienced extremely similar situations and then some and it is traumatizing. Especially as a 19 year old a struggling with the disease of addiction.

https://www.patriotledger.com/news/...icials-over-civil-commitments?template=ampart
 
Ma is the only state with the section 35 regulations. Thank you for your feed back Jess. Why do you think it?s in humane? An what would you do if you were civilly committed? Would you be mad at your family or be grateful?
 
Saw something about this in another thread not that long ago, and I'll say the same thing... It seems like a huge violation on human rights.
 
Ma is the only state with the section 35 regulations. Thank you for your feed back Jess. Why do you think it?s in humane? An what would you do if you were civilly committed? Would you be mad at your family or be grateful?

I'd be furious. Probably to the point of leaving the state and never talking to them again. The statistics have repeatedly shown how poor these punitive approaches are in achieving sobriety in the long term. Not to mention the danger of forcing people to detox and then releasing them, having done nothing to make it unlikely that the addict won't use again, in a position to easily overdose when they do.

There is nothing humane about forced withdrawal. And there's nothing acceptable about sending people to jail for a medical problem.

This foolish unethical and probably unconstitutional program could get people killed. And worse still there is years of research showing what does work best being ignored to do it.
 
This kind of reminds me of that idiot sheriff in Arizona that had the tent thing.
 
It is not inhumane. I say this even in the absence of hearing the other side of the story.
I could be wrong, but I'm guessing Massachusetts has a massive drug problem. How many more junkies would you suggest the community should put up with roaming the streets every day, doing whatever dumb-ass shit junkies do?
Drug addicts are in no position to point fingers and accusing others of being "inhumane" lmao
The idea is to get off the drugs. No matter what the cost.
The junkies idea is to get drugs, no matter what inhumane acts may be required.
Well done Massachusetts. I suggest 20 lashes for repeat offenders. Drive away, no more to pay. Good results guaranteed.
 
It is not inhumane. I say this even in the absence of hearing the other side of the story.
I could be wrong, but I'm guessing Massachusetts has a massive drug problem. How many more junkies would you suggest the community should put up with roaming the streets every day, doing whatever dumb-ass shit junkies do?
Drug addicts are in no position to point fingers and accusing others of being "inhumane" lmao
The idea is to get off the drugs. No matter what the cost.
The junkies idea is to get drugs, no matter what inhumane acts may be required.
Well done Massachusetts. I suggest 20 lashes for repeat offenders. Drive away, no more to pay. Good results guaranteed.

Your beliefs are foolish, discredited, and completely incompatable with civilized society.

We live in a society of laws, of rights. You don't get to deem a social problem you don't like above the law, justifying "whatever it takes".

Junkies are human beings, as such they have rights like anyone else, including a right not to be arbitrarally imprisoned. And a right not to be subject to cruel and unusual punishment.

Not to mention that such punitive punishments have been completely discredited. There are countries that routinely execute addicts and still experience massive drug problems. Because such approaches are for the corrupt seeking to indulge their lust for power over other people, not people genuinely trying to improve their society.

Far as I'm concerned people with views like yours are faaaaar more dangerous to society. At least when junkies hurt people it's because of addiction. You have no such excuse.

I find your point of view appauling, nevertheless I am trying to attack those views and not you personally. If you feel I have failed to do that, then for that I apologize. But I make no apology for what I think of your opinion. I think it's a disgusting display of complete disregard for the rights of people who are already frequently victimized.
 
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I've been committed multiple times in Florida but I was never subjected to abuse but the place is admittedly a dump and the staff are mostly not very smart. I know someone who did time in Joe Arpaio's jail. He had some stories - he had to sport the pink underwear. Also breakfast was four slices of white bread, peanut butter (no jelly), an orange and a milk. He said he figured out how to make a concoction like marmalade to make it palatable.
 
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Your beliefs are foolish, discredited, and completely incompatable with civilized society.

We live in a society of laws, of rights. You don't get to deem a social problem you don't like above the law, justifying "whatever it takes".

Junkies are human beings, as such they have rights like anyone else, including a right not to be arbitrarally imprisoned. And a right not to be subject to cruel and unusual punishment.

Not to mention that such punitive punishments have been completely discredited. There are countries that routinely execute addicts and still experience massive drug problems. Because such approaches are for the corrupt seeking to indulge their lust for power over other people, not people genuinely trying to improve their society.

Far as I'm concerned people with views like yours are faaaaar more dangerous to society. At least when junkies hurt people it's because of addiction. You have no such excuse.

I find your point of view appauling, nevertheless I am trying to attack those views and not you personally. If you feel I have failed to do that, then for that I apologize. But I make no apology for what I think of your opinion. I think it's a disgusting display of complete disregard for the rights of people who are already frequently victimized.

You may pretend to live in a society of laws and rights, but in reality we live in a society of laws and RESPONSIBILITY. Junkies are human beings, as such they have responsibilities like anyone else, including the responsibility to abide by the laws of the land. If they don't like it, they can can just piss off to a place with less responsibilities...like jail for example...or another country to be executed. Any dumb-ass junkie who whinges and whines about his or her treatment inside a western country is in dire need of 20 lashes, because the good will of the people is doing that fool only harm.

Drug addicts are "completely discredited". Punitive punishments are great. Especially 20 lashes for the junkie that broke into the old lady's home where he robbed & beat her. You see, in a civilized society people have more or less learned to ignore the narcissistic demands of drug-addict criminals and instead show regard for their victims.

When junkies hurt people it's because of addictions? lmao When hubby beats his wife it's because of anger problems? When Muhammad stabs your family in the streets it's because of Islaam? When Leroy rapes your daughter it's because sex-addiction? When the group of "youths" (code-name for blacks) caves your skull in for your iphone and pocket change it's because of slavery?
When (edit) rape their own infant daughters it's because of captain cook?
Strewth possum. Be glad non of that has happened to you, and thus you can afford to live in this kind of delusion.
You need not apologize to me for anything.
 
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You may pretend to live in a society of laws and rights, but in reality we live in a society of laws and RESPONSIBILITY. Junkies are human beings, as such they have responsibilities like anyone else, including the responsibility to abide by the laws of the land. If they don't like it, they can can just piss off to a place with less responsibilities...like jail for example...or another country to be executed. Any dumb-ass junkie who whinges and whines about his or her treatment inside a western country is in dire need of 20 lashes, because the good will of the people is doing that fool only harm.

Drug addicts are "completely discredited". Punitive punishments are great. Especially 20 lashes for the junkie that broke into the old lady's home where he robbed & beat her. You see, in a civilized society people have more or less learned to ignore the narcissistic demands of drug-addict criminals and instead show regard for their victims.

When junkies hurt people it's because of addictions? lmao When hubby beats his wife it's because of anger problems? When Muhammad stabs your family in the streets it's because of Islaam? When Leroy rapes your daughter it's because sex-addiction? When the group of "youths" (code-name for blacks) caves your skull in for your iphone and pocket change it's because of slavery?
When abos rape their own infant daughters it's because of captain cook?
Strewth possum. Be glad non of that has happened to you, and thus you can afford to live in this kind of delusion.
You need not apologize to me for anything.
i agree mostly with your statement but not all drug addicts are the same some will just go without or do the time however painful it is i have lived with the most narcissistic heroin addicts you could imagine beleive me I know where you are coming from
 
OK Derschieber, I really have nothing else to say. I mean I've said my peace, I don't think there's any chance whatsoever of my convincing you of the wrongness of your beliefs, and I can promise you I won't be convinced of the rightness of yours. So for my part I'm gonna leave this argument at this point.

But before I do, I highly recommend you edit out the remarks at the end of your post regarding indigenous Australians and blacks. Bluelight is a community of rules too, and I'm certain they are in violation of those rules.

That said, I'm not a moderator for this part of bluelight, it won't my be decision what to do about it. So consider it nothing more than a recommendation.
 
I've held off from voicing my opinion here, as it's a pretty controversial topic as is apparent from the discussion. I think it's an important discussion to have though. Even if the other side is wrong, it is good to challenge your thinking from time to time. That in mind, lets try to keep this as civil as possible or it will have to be closed.

Jess- I would just like to point out that you are the one who started with the name calling by calling Dersch's beliefs "foolish, discredited, and completely incompatible with civilized society". While I don't necessarily agree with Dersch, rather than call names, why not demonstrate your point if it is so? Surely if it is disproven there are studies and examples to point to.

And there are, for example, take a look at Switzerland, who has had great success with a harm reduction approach.

Also, this video does a good job of summarizing the current situation.


The idea that the war on drugs is a failure is not just one that circulates drug circles and among junkies. It's increasingly becoming an accepted idea among scholars for one main reason- that facts stand behind it. Punitive treatment has not been shown to be successful in treating drug addictions or "cleaning up the streets". Instead, the opposite- drug offenders are pushed further into a life of crime limited by their past, while demand for drugs remains the same or increases creating a thriving black market, which perpetuates a lot of the evil which it, the war on drugs, seeks to destroy. The truth is, most drug crimes are non-violent in nature and the person often most harmed by the addiction is the person addicted themselves.

Dersch, while I agree that it is not inhumane to hold someone against their will given the right circumstances, and drug addiction may perpetuate those circumstances, your thinking is one that is based in fear and hate, which is extremely limiting to your perspective. Drug addiction in and of itself does not harm anyone but the user- other crimes against society are just that, other crimes and should be treated as such. I would ask to see some statistics that back your statements like "punitive punishments are great" in the context of treating addiction, but I know there are none. Keep in mind this is a drug forum and most here have had to deal with their own addiction. While I understand you may be angry and have been hurt by drug addicts, this is not the way to work through it.

Lets try to keep the conversation respectful and civilized going forward. If we are going to debate, remember to only debate the facts as it's senseless to try and debate opinions.
 
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It may not be inhumane to hold someone against their will in certain circumstances. But what's being discussed here most certainly isn't one of those circumstances. Putting someone in jail without a proper trial by jury for a specific crime is a violation of human rights. Worse still, addiction is a medical problem. Putting someone in jail for a medical problem is also completely unacceptable.

I do not agree that I engaged in personal name calling. Having reread my post, the only part of it I can see as remotely a personal attack of any kind is when I said " Because such approaches are for the corrupt seeking to indulge their lust for power over other people, not people genuinely trying to improve their society.". At most you might be able to argue that saying that implies that I called Dersch corrupt. But I'd still say that's pretty tenuous.

"Name calling" the views themselves is not name calling the individual. And I do not accept that I have engaged in name calling Dersch. As for demonstrating my point. You'll have to forgive me but I'm not in a rush to spend extra effort digging up studies that I am absolutely certain will be completely ignored. I don't think the argument even requires much in the way of studies. If such punitive punishment were going to work you would think it would already have worked in the countries that engage in it. Yet such countries are frequently some of the worst as far as drug abuse.

Besides, I don't think it's at all humane to punish someone with lashes for any crime. It is needlessly cruel and immoral. That's not something I can prove, because it's an opinion.

So no, sorry but having gone over my posts again, I simply do not accept that I engaged in name calling.
 
Your beliefs are foolish, discredited, and completely incompatable with civilized society.
I don't think you'd appreciate having the same said to you. While maybe not name calling per say, definitely a personal attack.
You'll have to forgive me but I'm not in a rush to spend extra effort digging up studies that I am absolutely certain will be completely ignored.
If the studies will be ignored, what benefit will arguing at all have? Seems like yelling at the deaf either way.
I don't think the argument even requires much in the way of studies.
I'm not sure what you would base your arguments on, or how one could tell whose opinion is more valid without. One says punitive, other says rehabilitative- who is right? Well if we are going to be fair we would have to look at these ideas being implemented, so we need something in the way of studies. Other wise we are just shouting opinions.
 
When junkies hurt people it's because of addictions? lmao When hubby beats his wife it's because of anger problems? When Muhammad stabs your family in the streets it's because of Islaam? When Leroy rapes your daughter it's because sex-addiction? When the group of "youths" (code-name for blacks) caves your skull in for your iphone and pocket change it's because of slavery?
When abos rape their own infant daughters it's because of captain cook?
Strewth possum. Be glad non of that has happened to you, and thus you can afford to live in this kind of delusion.
You need not apologize to me for anything.

I agree, all those you've mentioned are responsible for their actions (unless someone is deemed criminally insane through mental illness)

But those are committed crimes, not merely for using drugs (which correct me if I'm wrong, is what this particular American statute is talking about). I used heroin through the 90s and although yes I caused my mother worry (which I will always feel guilty about) I committed no 'crime' against others (except that of possession, legally)
 
This isnt a 'war on drugs' - there never was a 'war on drugs', just on people, those who were vulnerable an acted-out were targeted, always.

Health and welfare issued should NEVER be punished. There is the odd psycho that will manipulate but its a minority.

What you are mentioning, OP is wholly an injustice against human rights; as everyone else has opined. Sick.:mad:

Go get yourself strong and fight it!
 
It is not inhumane. I say this even in the absence of hearing the other side of the story.
I could be wrong, but I'm guessing Massachusetts has a massive drug problem. How many more junkies would you suggest the community should put up with roaming the streets every day, doing whatever dumb-ass shit junkies do?
Drug addicts are in no position to point fingers and accusing others of being "inhumane" lmao
The idea is to get off the drugs. No matter what the cost.
The junkies idea is to get drugs, no matter what inhumane acts may be required.
Well done Massachusetts. I suggest 20 lashes for repeat offenders. Drive away, no more to pay. Good results guaranteed.
That is one of the most ignorant statements I have ever heard. You are clearly not educated on this matter whatsoever.
 
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