Romantic Interest Struggles with Commitment and Emotional Intimacy

[ATLL765]

I have had a relationship with a woman which amounts to a FWB situation for approximately 2.5 years. We were friends prior to that and over the years have become very close. I'd say we are now close to being, if not already, each other's best friend. It has been made clear that we both have feelings that go beyond it, but we've avoided that step due to fears of commitment and how crossing that boundary could lead to irreparable damage being done to our friendship if either of us fell back into negative behavior patterns.

I'm somewhat familiar with psychology and think that she is of the avoidant attachment style, as she tends to struggle with expressing deep emotions and sharing past traumas, preferring in the past to keep me at a distance as a defense mechanism. I believe that she does want a committed relationship despite, what appear to me at least, to be halfhearted claims otherwise. However, I think she avoids this with me due to the fact that she does depend on me for so many things and that if we were to move beyond that, the risk of being hurt becomes too great because it would mean losing so much if things were to go south.

Recently, we've both made strides in our personal lives, me being drug free for an extended period of time and her having made progress with her ability to communicate feelings and needs clearly. With these improvements, we've become closer than ever. Due to this I intend to broach the topic of a committed relationship soon, probably some time next month. I certainly feel like if we're going to carry on the way we are now it has to be going somewhere, otherwise what exactly are we doing?

My question here is what can be done to help make her feel comfortable with this type of commitment? Any tips on how to express myself without overwhelming her would be great.

 

[w01fg4ng]

It sounds like you are ready to take it to the next level but she might not be. It also sounds like you are making guess work out of her desires and capabilities.

Instead of focusing on how to make her feel comfortable on doing what YOU want to do, have you thought about making yourself comfortable with what SHE wants to do? Have you considered that she might not want a committed relationship, ever?

You might find that the end result here might be more difficult for you than for her.

 

[ATLL765]

I have considered that possibility. I am definitely making some guesses/assumptions about her, but I've come to these conclusions based on 9 years of friendship, with the last 2.5 us being whatever you want to call it. We've had many, many discussions about these types of things and I feel fairly safe in my thoughts. It's just a matter if, as you said, she is ready and prepared for such a relationship. If she were to decline, it would be painful, but I don't think it would be any worse than the situation I am in currently.

What's occurred in the past is that despite the boundaries of a FWB relationship, she's expressed jealousy to the point where it's interfered with my ability to find another stable romantic relationship. Her other relationships generally fail because of our thing, but mostly because they just find out she's still sleeping with me. At this point, I'm feeling like it's a bit of now or never. I sit around waiting too long, she may begin to feel as if I will ALWAYS be there no matter what else goes on. As a friend sure, but we can't remain sexual partners forever while trying to date other people. We've been doing that for years now and it does not work, clearly. Or at the very least, we'd need to set much more rigid boundaries in line with a traditional FWB agreement or agree to something like an open relationship, although I have my reservations about that working long term.

 

[atara]

You obviously want this, you have to take responsibility and admit it.

I believe that she does want a committed relationship despite, what appear to me at least, to be halfhearted claims otherwise.

Stop playing games with trick questions.

What's occurred in the past is that despite the boundaries of a FWB relationship, she's expressed jealousy to the point where it's interfered with my ability to find another stable romantic relationship.

How did you react to this?

that she does depend on me for so many things

Is this about money?

think that she is of the avoidant attachment style,

Those are all terrible qualities. Why would you describe someone like that and still consider a relationship with them?

I certainly feel like if we're going to carry on the way we are now it has to be going somewhere, otherwise what exactly are we doing?

You criticize her ability to express emotions, but your emotions are always expressed here with some kind of excuse. You either want something or you don't. You can't pretend it's not you who wants it because the spirits tell you it has to be going somewhere.

 

[ATLL765]

You obviously want this, you have to take responsibility and admit it.

I thought that was clear.

How did you react to this?

This was the first inkling I got that she might want something more, so while I was upset at first, it was at least a window into her mind.

Is this about money?

No. Not that I haven't ever helped her out financially over the years, but it was meant more in the sense that that she relies on me for emotional support and for friendship beyond what she does or has with other romantic partners.

Those are all terrible qualities. Why would you describe someone like that and still consider a relationship with them?

Because I understand why she is like this and that we cannot always control the way we feel. She has made progress in identifying the least helpful qualities and worked towards becoming more communicative. She is a few years younger than I and at that age I was not the best at understanding, much less communicating my feeling clearly.

You criticize her ability to express emotions, but your emotions are always expressed here with some kind of excuse. You either want something or you don't. You can't pretend it's not you who wants it because the spirits tell you it has to be going somewhere.

I think you may have misunderstood. I 100% desire a more defined and committed relationship with this person. I meant that it has to be going somewhere if we are both going to express our feelings the we have. I can't have said to someone, "I want to be with you", etc and so on, then just sit in relationship purgatory. She needs to reciprocate or things need to change. That was my point.

 

[atara]

I thought that was clear.

I wasn't telling you to talk to me!

How did you react to this?

This was the first inkling I got that she might want something more, so while I was upset at first, it was at least a window into her mind.

You didn't answer the question. What did you do?

it was meant more in the sense that that she relies on me for emotional support

Excuse me?

She is a few years younger than I and at that age I was

Can you be more specific?

This is one of those things where either one of those two quotes is okay but put it together and it starts to look bad.

 

[ATLL765]

Ok. Definite communication breakdown here.

I wasn't telling you to talk to me!

She's aware. Although I'm not sure if she realizes that I feel as if it needs to occur soon or different boundaries need to be set. My intent is to clarify this with her. Thus why I'm here looking for advice.

You didn't answer the question. What did you do?

I explained to her I did not understand why she was upset because it had been established that we were not dating exclusively. She responded that she felt that it was not fair of me to spend time with her if I felt some type of way about anyone else. Confused why she didn't just explain that prior, I told her that was an unrealistic expectation if she was unwilling to commit to the same.

Excuse me?

Her and I are very good friends. She is the type of person that has very few close friends. I am, according to her, the only person she can be totally honest with. My thoughts are that because she needs the support provided by having a close friend like that, a relationship scares her in the way that it would mean she put 'all her eggs in one basket' so to speak.

Can you be more specific?

This is one of those things where either one of those two quotes is okay but put it together and it starts to look bad.

I am 28, she is 22.

 

[atara]

So you met when you were 19 and she was 13?

Look, yeah, that's, you see, a problem. It's not a guaranteed deal-breaker, but it makes the situation weird. She remembers growing up with you and seeing you as an adult and herself as a child. It's a huge part of the situation I would hope you could acknowledge up front.

Has she ever had another relationship (you know, the honest kind where she isn't also sleeping with you)? High school boyfriend, something? Did you have any other relationships before she was 19?

I explained to her I did not understand why she was upset because it had been established that we were not dating exclusively.

You don't understand? This can't be serious. Attachment isn't supposed to be voluntary.

Thus why I'm here looking for advice.

I'm planning to keep asking questions until it becomes obvious to you that you need to stop sleeping with her. It's not that she doesn't have feelings for you, it's that she doesn't want to be in a serious relationship with you because your personal history with her makes her uncomfortable. I'm also catching strong signs that you like having control over this situation (most people would think that having someone be too emotionally dependent on them is a bad thing) and that's not healthy, and particular it sounds like you read "no" as "she can't express herself" ("defense mechanism") which is extra bad. How creepy is it to describe your romantic interests in terms of psychology?

I believe that she does want a committed relationship despite, what appear to me at least, to be halfhearted claims otherwise.

Why do I have to wade through your conclusions to get to a description of her actions?

Why is her being emotionally supported/"very good friends" going to break down if you stop sleeping together?

Just saying maybe start dating someone you haven't groomed since adolescence it's more exciting.

 

[ATLL765]

So you met when you were 19 and she was 13?

Look, yeah, that's, you see, a problem. It's not a guaranteed deal-breaker, but it makes the situation weird. She remembers growing up with you and seeing you as an adult and herself as a child. It's a huge part of the situation I would hope you could acknowledge up front.

Has she ever had another relationship (you know, the honest kind where she isn't also sleeping with you)? High school boyfriend, something? Did you have any other relationships before she was 19?

Yes. I knew her older sister, so I was around her then. We had sporadic interaction over the years until she was aged 19. It was then and only then that we had truly close interaction. So maybe friends for that time was a bit disingenuous, acquaintances would be more accurate.

Yes, she has had relationships where we weren't also sleeping together. These all occurred prior to that though.

Yes, I have had other relationships. None that made it to any official level since.

You don't understand? This can't be serious. Attachment isn't supposed to be voluntary.

I do, but I can only be confused by someone that says "X is ok", then is mad when X occurs. Especially given that she had done the same things.

I'm planning to keep asking questions until it becomes obvious to you that you need to stop sleeping with her. It's not that she doesn't have feelings for you, it's that she doesn't want to be in a serious relationship with you because your personal history with her makes her uncomfortable. I'm also catching strong signs that you like having control over this situation (most people would think that having someone be too emotionally dependent on them is a bad thing) and that's not healthy, and particular it sounds like you read "no" as "she can't express herself" ("defense mechanism") which is extra bad. How creepy is it to describe your romantic interests in terms of psychology?

I'm starting to dislike the what you're implying here. Also, I do not have a lot of control over this situation. If anything, she is in the driver's seat here. I do encourage her to find girlfriends, but she struggles to do so. Her and I have had discussions on this and she's made statements to me that I am relaying here. I am not blindly assuming things.

Why do I have to wade through your conclusions to get to a description of her actions?

Because some of your questions are a bit vague.

Why is her being emotionally supported/"very good friends" going to break down if you stop sleeping together?

I never said it would. I was trying to convey that she believes it might.

Just saying maybe start dating someone you haven't groomed since adolescence it's more exciting.

I really dislike what you are saying here because this could not be further from the truth.

 

[PriestTheyCalledHim]

Have you talked to her in person about any of this? If so what did she say?

At 22 most people are not ready to settle down. If she does not want this you will be dodging a bullet by not having a serious relationship or even marrying a woman who is emotionally distant, narcissistic, and who has a severe personality disorder with avoidant attachment issues. People like this woman are best avoided-no pun, and are better off staying single and attempting a normal or stable relationship with them is pointless, as they are incapable of having a healthy and stable relationship with anyone.

Be aware that this woman has been manipulating you. If you both wanted a serious and healthy relationship it would have happened by now.

She is an adult. Do not let her rely upon you for anything, as this is a form of manipulation. It is also a huge red flag that in her early 20s she has very few friends or close friends, or even people who she can talk to about personal things or have healthy relationships with.

Meanwhile fuck her as much and as often as you can, and explore any sexual kinks or desires you have since she wants friends with benefits and you shouldn't take this all so seriously. Use condoms as this woman is the type that could get pregnant to manipulate you.

Concentrate on improving yourself and staying sober or not using drugs.

Start to date other women, and find someone better and who you are more compatible with than this woman. Find someone who actually wants a serious relationship, as you deserve better than this woman who is severely damaged and a manipulative cold person.

Once you have found a new girlfriend, cut off all contact with this woman, as she is toxic and you do not need her in your life.

 

[ATLL765]

Have you talked to her in person about any of this? If so what did she say?

At 22 most people are not ready to settle down. If she does not want this you will be dodging a bullet by not having a serious relationship or even marrying a woman who is emotionally distant, narcissistic, and who has a severe personality disorder with avoidant attachment issues. People like this woman are best avoided-no pun, and are better off staying single and attempting a normal or stable relationship with them is pointless, as they are incapable of having a healthy and stable relationship with anyone.

Be aware that this woman has been manipulating you. If you both wanted a serious and healthy relationship it would have happened by now.

She is an adult. Do not let her rely upon you for anything, as this is a form of manipulation. It is also a huge red flag that in her early 20s she has very few friends or close friends, or even people who she can talk to about personal things or have healthy relationships with.

Meanwhile fuck her as much and as often as you can, and explore any sexual kinks or desires you have since she wants friends with benefits and you shouldn't take this all so seriously. Use condoms as this woman is the type that could get pregnant to manipulate you.

Concentrate on improving yourself and staying sober or not using drugs.

Start to date other women, and find someone better and who you are more compatible with than this woman. Find someone who actually wants a serious relationship, as you deserve better than this woman who is severely damaged and a manipulative cold person.

Once you have found a new girlfriend, cut off all contact with this woman, as she is toxic and you do not need her in your life.

That seems a bit extreme.

 

[PriestTheyCalledHim]

I read your other thread/posts in the dark side. You have been through a lot, in the past 2-3 years, and this woman sounds crazy especially when she said she just wants a casual friends with benefits type thing, and that you are free to date other women but then when you do date or become friends with other women she threatens to stab them. This woman who you want a relationship with is toxic and you are seriously better off without her.

As I wrote earlier, work on staying sober, and improving yourself.

My childhood wasn't terrible. It wasn't fantastic either, but it wasn't overly traumatic by any means. I feel I may have adopted some of these traits or patterns of thought from my Mother, a she was the one who primarily raised me. She always felt like she wasn't doing enough to make the people around here happy and that others felt she wasn't doing a good job. I don't feel exactly the same way, but rather that no matter how well I perform, that things will never work out in my favor due to some cruel twist of fate.

As for cutting toxic people out of my life, I don't think I could do that with someone I love or care for the way I do for her. We've been through a lot right. I caught by best friend's husband sleeping with her when she was just 13. That was truly awful. She we there for me when my girlfriend died, which was especially meaningful as she was the only one of my friends that knew her personally prior to our relationship. Having been through these things together, I promised I'd always be there for her if she needed anything. A bed to sleep in, food to eat, money if she was in need and she told me she wanted to be there for me as well. I thought this sentiment was genuine.

I just don't understand why she feels the need to have it both ways with me. That she can come in and out of my life as she pleases, knowing I'll always be there. Yet then destroy any chances I have at building something more with anyone else. I don't know if this is out of pure jealousy or out of fear that if I had someone else in my life, that I'd cut her out of it.

She doesn't just walk all over me without consequence though. I tell her when she's being immature, but I can't ever stay mad at her. I love her, a lot. She's a true friend, but she's got some serious problems she needs to work out. I just don't ever not want to be around her while she's trying to do so.

There's been too many people that have gotten mad at her for making a mistake and just push her away because of it. I don't want to make her feel like I'd ever abandon her because she upset me a little bit. I want her to know that even if I am upset, nothing changes between us. Maybe it's unhealthy, but when she hurts me, I just want to pull her closer just to make it abundantly clear that I'll never be more than a phone call away.

Anyways, you guys get the picture here. It's just frustrating that she had to go so far out of her way to salt the Earth, so to speak, with this other girl I had been seeing because I really liked her a lot. Maybe that's why she did it. Because I told her how I was a bit excited to have met someone with similar interests and seemingly genuine desire to want to those interests with me. These opportunities have been few and far between for me as most girls I've been with tend to suck around in a casual fashion for a bit before breaking it off.

That being said, this is 2nd girl in a year she's threatened to assault and she's gotten into arguments with others via text and/or Facebook. I don't know how to approach this with her as I don't want to ever cut her out of my life, but she needs to let me live my life the way I let her live her life. I've never gotten involved with any of her boyfriends other than this one where he's been the one to antagonize me by saying things that made me so mad that I told him to either stay away from her or I'd hurt him. The only other time anything like that occurred was when I witnessed another one of her boyfriends being physically aggressive and intervened.

https://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads/836193-The-Never-ending-Cycle

 

[pofacedhoe]

wow OP try it out with this girl and if she doesn't like it then move on

at the moment she is having her cake eating it and saying that its too sweet all at once

first of FWB but she gets jealous so you cant be with other women= she doesn't want FWB she wants you all to herself

for her to get that she needs to be willing to give you what you want= a relationship

talk to her, explain what you want and what will happen if she doesn't want that and how it will play out


you're off the drugs so your life will need love so if you cant find it here cos she doesn't want it, she will have to accept that you will find it somewhere else


just remember, life is one day at a time. you are not in the future you are in the now, take it day by day


if you get with her and it goes tits up, well at least you tried and thats better than not trying

 

[atara]

So maybe friends for that time was a bit disingenuous, acquaintances would be more accurate.

I apologize. I clearly read far too much into that statement.

But when you say "disingenuous", you're acting like you harmed me by lying. Thing is you didn't lie to me, you lied to yourself. You wouldn't post something when you're asking for advice if you didn't really believe it, right?

If you want to think you were friends for nine years, but you weren't, then that changes the way I look at the situation dramatically.

it's that she doesn't want to be in a serious relationship with you because your personal history with her makes her uncomfortable.

I'm starting to dislike the what you're implying here.

I may have been wrong about what I was "implying", but I stand by what I was saying. Knowing someone who was an adult when you were a child makes it weird to date them. Memories of the old dynamic keep bubbling to the surface. And no she's not going to say that if she wants to sleep with you (hint: she finds you attractive) because she knows that'll make you pull back and from what we've just learned she's not exactly the most honest person ever.

You have been through a lot, in the past 2-3 years, and this woman sounds crazy especially when she said she just wants a casual friends with benefits type thing, and that you are free to date other women but then when you do date or become friends with other women she threatens to stab them. This woman who you want a relationship with is toxic and you are seriously better off without her.

PTCH is 100% correct. I was definitely wrong about the balance of power earlier, but I knew I felt from the OP: some serious problems lurking under the surface.

This is just bad all around.

 

[Shady's Fox]

This is how relationships begin right? you got the girl then the boy and one of them can't hold onto that and then goes to fwb which basically it's another term for relationship. I remember when I first got with this dumb ass which behaved gray blackish shit first which then I got married to him and we have a kid, a girl. I knew him from the hood and we thought well why the fuck should we ruin a bestial friendship for some nonsense love or for some useless time invested in eachother grow, why? this was my question before my talk with him about few personal treasures and then I got into a relationship with him in about few months after that. I don't know what you imply because this girl or lady whatever she is sounds a bit childish and I think you should remain only friend with her or just cut her out, there are other people there who can behave normaly? isn't worth thinking about this, just cut her out she's toxic af.