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  • BDD Moderators: Keif’ Richards | negrogesic

Bupe to Morphine Sulfate

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Was on 2mg day of suboxone for pain management for 8 years - I was switched to 60mg a day of morphine sulfate a month ago, stopping the bupe a day before. The pain is still present, but not as bad. Will my body adjust to the pain medication I?m on? Thinking of switching to a different medicine at my next appointment. Basically asking for maybe a timeline on how long things take to level out.
 
If you’re still in pain after being on it for a month, I don’t think continued use at this dose will ever give better pain relief than it currently does.
 
Help. I'm in the opposite situation.
Doctor is changing me from 75 mg MS Contin to bupe next month and I am scared.

Do you think this will be a change for the better?
How hard will it be to switch over?

Doctor says I am starting to get hyperalgesia from the MS Contin.
Doctor says bupe helps for pain management also
I have been on the 75 mg MS Contin for 12 years!
Please advise.
 
Help. I'm in the opposite situation.
Doctor is changing me from 75 mg MS Contin to bupe next month and I am scared.

Do you think this will be a change for the better?
How hard will it be to switch over?

Doctor says I am starting to get hyperalgesia from the MS Contin.
Doctor says bupe helps for pain management also
I have been on the 75 mg MS Contin for 12 years!
Please advise.

Trust me when I say this. I PROMISE you will feel no withdrawal symptoms except from some very mild discomfort during induction.

Everyone is different, but the bupe didn’t help as much with the pain as MSER does.

You WILL be stable within a few hours after induction or may not feel a change at all.
 
Trust me when I say this. I PROMISE you will feel no withdrawal symptoms except from some very mild discomfort during induction.

Everyone is different, but the bupe didn’t help as much with the pain as MSER does.

You WILL be stable within a few hours after induction or may not feel a change at all.

Thank you so much for replying.
Sorry for using your thread to ask.
I figured you would know.
I'm so scared.
I get horrific withdrawal from the MS Contin and after twelve years of being on the same 75 mg dosage a day I need a little increase but that got me into the doctor saying I could either reduce my MS Contin or go on suboxone.

I sure can't reduce my MS Contin so I am going to have to take the suboxone.

I have pain even with the MS Contin now so maybe this will be better. I'm hoping for a miracle.
 
As to your question, the MS Contin does build up and controls the pain better after a while but a month should be about the best it is going to get for you.

I live with chronic pain too and I know how bad it sucks. I'm so sorry you live with this too.

And now we are opiate dependent as well. *sigh

I would be careful asking your doctor anything. That got me into this problem.
The MS Contin worked good for me for 10-11 years. Then it has not worked so good.

I would maybe give it another month just so you can be sure your body has adjusted to the change of medications and see what you think. I wish you the best of luck.

My doctor said the MS Contin effects your thinking much more than the suboxone.
Plus now I have the hyperalgesia.

How will they switch me over to the sub from the MS Contin? Am I going to have to go through days of withdrawal?
 
One more question for you if you don't mind, I'm researching the suboxone and I'm thinking about asking if I could have the subutex because it looks like the naloxone or whatever in the suboxone can cause headaches.

I get the worst cluster headaches and I am worried about that naloxone causing headaches for me.

Do you think that is a good idea? They are basically the same medication from what I am understanding just one has naloxone/naltrexone and one doesn't. So the doctor shouldn't have a problem with that.

I am just hoping my quality of life improves! That is the main thing.
 
8 years is a very clinically significant period of time to be on any medication without interruption. As you are probably acutely aware, Buprenorphine (Suboxone; Subutex; Buprenex) is a long(er)-acting analgesic than Morphine by quite a large margin. It's going to vary from person to person and I admittedly am not as familiar as I should be regarding Buprenorphine as an analgesic. I am very familiar with its usage as a maintenance medication. Anyway,you will most likely be taking 3 doses of Morphine for every 1 dose of Buprenorphine in terms of duration of effect and not dosage.

I know some of this information is elementary, but it's important. Buprenorphine is a powerful Opioid agonist, but it is also a partial-agonist as well. This makes its biochemistry much more difficult to discuss in absolute terms. At any rate, I am trying my best to adapt what I know about Bupe to your situation. I understand that much like Methadone, another powerful and long-acting Opioid, Buprenorphine has an acute withdrawal syndrome that can be as long as 2-3 weeks with lingering effects for up to 3 months before a true return to normalcy begins. There are those who are still very troubled by symptoms of cessation even years after discontinuation although this is not the norm.

I would expect that you will begin to see a very serious change in how the Morphine effects you as you approach the one month mark of abstinence from the Buprenorphine. Also, don't be freaked out by what I've said. The numbers and severity are for people who are on higher doses and not actually switching to another Opioid. I believe you're dealing with the aforementioned "lingering" effects of the Buprenorphine. It's also my belief that 60mg of Morphine will treat you well once you do reach this point.
 
Yeah I would agree with what Keif Richards said above.

If I were you, I would give it a few months and see how you feel.

The MS Contin worked very well for me for 10-11 years. It gave me peace of mind knowing that I could count on it to not let the pain get past a certain line/amount. The severity of the pain I suffered before getting into pain management was so horrific. It took me awhile to become not terrified of it. The MS Contin really saved me and it was like a whole new life knowing that I wouldn't have to ever endure the level of pain that I was enduring before being prescribed the MS Contin.

I hope the MS Contin starts working better for you. I think it will. Give it a little time to build up and for your body to adjust to the medication change and I think you will find that it works very good for pain control.
Good luck. Let us know how it goes.
 
One more question for you if you don't mind, I'm researching the suboxone and I'm thinking about asking if I could have the subutex because it looks like the naloxone or whatever in the suboxone can cause headaches.

I get the worst cluster headaches and I am worried about that naloxone causing headaches for me.

Do you think that is a good idea? They are basically the same medication from what I am understanding just one has naloxone/naltrexone and one doesn't. So the doctor shouldn't have a problem with that.

I am just hoping my quality of life improves! That is the main thing.

The naloxone in Suboxone basically does nothing if you’re taking as prescribed.

You will get better pain relief on your MSER - IF I were in your shoes, I’d stay on the MSER - just for the pain relief.
 
8 years is a very clinically significant period of time to be on any medication without interruption. As you are probably acutely aware, Buprenorphine (Suboxone; Subutex; Buprenex) is a long(er)-acting analgesic than Morphine by quite a large margin. It's going to vary from person to person and I admittedly am not as familiar as I should be regarding Buprenorphine as an analgesic. I am very familiar with its usage as a maintenance medication. Anyway,you will most likely be taking 3 doses of Morphine for every 1 dose of Buprenorphine in terms of duration of effect and not dosage.

I know some of this information is elementary, but it's important. Buprenorphine is a powerful Opioid agonist, but it is also a partial-agonist as well. This makes its biochemistry much more difficult to discuss in absolute terms. At any rate, I am trying my best to adapt what I know about Bupe to your situation. I understand that much like Methadone, another powerful and long-acting Opioid, Buprenorphine has an acute withdrawal syndrome that can be as long as 2-3 weeks with lingering effects for up to 3 months before a true return to normalcy begins. There are those who are still very troubled by symptoms of cessation even years after discontinuation although this is not the norm.

I would expect that you will begin to see a very serious change in how the Morphine effects you as you approach the one month mark of abstinence from the Buprenorphine. Also, don't be freaked out by what I've said. The numbers and severity are for people who are on higher doses and not actually switching to another Opioid. I believe you're dealing with the aforementioned "lingering" effects of the Buprenorphine. It's also my belief that 60mg of Morphine will treat you well once you do reach this point.

i appreciate the response. I’m almost a month in. Get sporadic wd symptoms here and there, nothing I can’t manage.

It’s working a little bit better for pain. We’ll see how it goes. I’ll keep you guys posted.
 
Just wanted to add that I'm on subute x and still get headaches at times. The #1 thing that has reduced them by at least 75% is not swallowing the solution. After the pills dissolved i would swallow the spit and get a headache almost everytime. I did some research( if interested just search for swallowing subxone or bupe) and a lot of people get be headaches from swallowing the spit.

Now once the pills are dissolved i spit it out and give myself a water rinse and spit that just to make sure.

I don't think it's naloxone that causes them, it's the bupe. Although I would try to get subutex of i were you just in case you have any intolerance, plus less chemicals is always better. I would bring headaches up as a reason for getting subute x instead of suboxone. Good luck
 
I heard they’re taking subutex off the market? I can still taste that nasty powder.
 
So, today the morphine “hit” the hardest it has the entire time I’ve been on it. Some days it feels like I’m not taking anything, which is weird.

Today is 30 days off all Suboxone. I still don’t feel more than 70% better most days. Just want this all to be over. I’d rather deal with a week of hard wd than the lingering effects of bupe.
 
Help. I'm in the opposite situation.
Doctor is changing me from 75 mg MS Contin to bupe next month and I am scared.

Do you think this will be a change for the better?
How hard will it be to switch over?

Doctor says I am starting to get hyperalgesia from the MS Contin.
Doctor says bupe helps for pain management also
I have been on the 75 mg MS Contin for 12 years!
Please advise.

Buprenorphine by milligram is an incredibly potent opioid. While personally it wouldn't be my first choice of drugs in pain management as a doctor, don't underestimate it's ability to kill pain. Also since it has a ceiling dose it's not like Morphine or Oxycodone where the same dose will eventually be ineffective. I found that 4 mg of Suboxone a day was more than to switch me over from a 7 mg fentanyl habit a day, which is A LOT. You will be ok my friend
 
Thank you for the above Information.
I have done some research on the buprenorphine and it does look like it would handle the pain but the problem is two things- number 1: it is not covered by my insurance and it is in the range of $469-$879 a month!

I absolutely cannot afford that!

Number 2- is that it is indicated for people with chronic pain who are on hundreds of MG's of Morphine and are still at a high pain level. My pain is being controlled very well with the 75 mg MS Contin a day that I am prescribed.

It is just that I have been on that dosage for 12 years now and there are times where I have "breakthrough" pain.
I have tried to ask my doctor what to do about that. But he just said "there is no correct way to deal with it."

So it has left me a few days short on medication through these winter months and that is why he is now suggesting the buprenorphine.

I don't think he really understands the severity of the symptoms I am dealing with. A lot of them I have found people with MS or Parkinson's disease have these symptoms. What is going on with me is complex and I have found a good balance with what I am prescribed. I would rather stay with what I am prescribed as any change could cause real huge problems for me.

I have been a perfect pain patient for 12 years. I hope he will give me the benefit of the doubt on the last few months and be willing to keep me where I am. I could do with a small increase in dosage of the MS Contin or a few pills for "breakthrough" pain but that is obviously gotten me into trouble. I can manage with the 75 mg a day if I have to.

I certainly can't manage the cost of the buprenorphine. I have a disability hearing this month and hopefully I will finally get my benefits but even with that I could not afford the other medication. Now I am terrified.
 
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