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FDA approves ketamine as antidepressant

S-Isomer, CH.

And will cost about $900.00 per supervised session.
 
Why do you "sigh" Captain.Heroin? Honest question.

This seems like a really positive step forward in treatment for depression, and will be much cheaper than IV infusions. While Ketamine is, imo, unlikely to provide lasting benefits past 6 months or a year in most patients, at least it'll likely do that! And often that's all that is needed! It will really stand out in patients admitted for suicide attempts, where even giving them a few hours free from depression can help them past a crisis, and reduce the chance of another suicide significantly, and hopefully further healing.

Patients will be required to stay in a clinic for at least two hours, until they can safely get home and aren't tripping anymore. Sad for those of us, (me included,) who wanted to take it home and enjoy some fun at our own whim, but for the average patient it is the right call, since while it wouldn't be anything like the opioid crisis, giving a powerful dissociative to people who don't even smoke weed, and don't understand drugs the way those in this forum do, would lead to lots of stories of people flipping out, ending up in the hospital or dead somehow, and getting the drug pulled from the market and demonized once more. Just like, no patient should just be prescribed LSD. LSD should be available for recreation and for addiction/depression/etc. but just giving it out with 5 minutes of instruction would lead to disaster for lot's of people who don't understand the drug. Ketamine is safer in that respect, but for people who don't understand drugs, (most people) it would lead to some really bad reactions if now watched over. Hopefully restrictions can be loosened after you've proven to the Dr you know what you're doing, but that won't be for a while if ever.

The part of the protocol that I hate is that patient's are required to also be taking a traditional antidepressant... Even though study after study shows no more than a tiny improvement in a tiny % of the depressed population from SSRI's, tricyclics, MAOI's, etc. And funny enough, a study just came out, (sorry I don't have the link or study access right now, but there's a New York Times Article about it today titled "How to quit antidepressants: Very Slowly Doctors say" for anyone interested,) that address what patients and (some) scientists have known for at least 15 years (at least that's how long I've known it,) about how doctors taper people off their ADs in a month (at first they didn't taper patients at all,) when it should be anywhere from 6 - 18 months or more for most patients (excluding short term users,) with long term consequences for those who taper too quickly.

Patient's have known this for at least 15 years as I said, the medical system seems to finally JUST NOW be admitting that AD withdrawal is both real AND severe, and not just a bunch of whiny patients (I've literally had a doctor tell me to stop whining, when I requested a slower taper schedule because of the moderate/severe withdrawal effects I was having. I ended up agreeing to "go back on AD's", so he'd give me what I needed to do a proper taper I needed.) Anyway, the point of this tangent is that it'll only be prescribed for "treatment resistant patients," so why should they be required to be on a drug with major side effects, that isn't working, and is causing major dependence, to get the Ketamine? That's the dumbest part to me, hopefully they won't drug test, and people like me, who are only damaged and worse off from traditional AD's, can just pretend to be taking a SSRI and still get the Ketamine, and maybe some real help for the first time. One of the great things about trying Ketamine (for medical usage, not daily (ab)use,) is that if it doesn't work, you can just stop, not be forced to taper (or suffer severe withdrawal) for 6 months from something that did nothing but cause problems.

Anyway, sorry for the tangents. As to the OP's question regarding bladder problems that's outside my knowledge, but I do know it isn't intended as a daily medication, the protocol is something like a few times a week for a few weeks and then only twice a week and then once or something to that effect, I don't know the actual protocol. Is ketamine something that can cause bladder problems quickly (in otherwise healthy people)? I've always assumed it only occurred from chronic use, but I realize I've never actually looked that up. Anyway, this isn't perfect, but to me it is a HUGE step forward to for the government to even admit that a "street drug" can have beneficial effects. If successful, it could further change minds towards MDMA for therapy, which has been proven effective but still is FAR from happening, and LSD/psilocin for addictions, depression, and whatever else they may help, and hopefully towards the realization by the population, that a drug can be good or bad, depending on how it's used, and most should be available for those who want to use them, once given the proper knowledge (at least that's my belief.)

Sorry for the tangents (again,) this just excites me, in some sense this is the first REAL advancement in depression medications since MAOI's and Tricyclics produced in the 50s.

Peace
 
this is the instranasal version, not the overly expensive IV version that has been used for a while now.

This will be a lot more expensive than generic IV formulations of racemic ketamine. If physicians were charging high prices for IV infusions of ketamine to treat depression, most of that wasn't going to cover the cost of the drug.

whats your opinion on the intranasal version being approved by the FDA and very important to ask this, will it have the same bladder problem issues as ketamine can do that in IV form?

Bladder problems related to heavy ketamine use are not restricted to IV or IM users. In fact, I would presume most heavy users who find themselves with bladder problems use it intranasally. That said, I highly doubt there would be a significant risk of bladder issues with the dosage and frequency the FDA has approved, regardless of whether it's IM, IV, or intranasal.

If successful, it could further change minds towards MDMA for therapy, which has been proven effective but still is FAR from happening...

MDMA was designated as a breakthrough therapy for PTSD back in 2017, so it could be approved for that indication in the next couple of years.
 
S-Isomer, CH.

And will cost about $900.00 per supervised session.

$900 for the s-isomer? For one dose? That's fucking insane.

Why do you "sigh" Captain.Heroin? Honest question.

I have PTSD, severe depression and I only get momentary after-glow 1, maybe 2 days stopping definitely at a week for the anti-depressive effect. There are better medications out there and at $900 per session that is insane.

It is literally an ass-rape price. The drugs from sigma aldrich don't go for a fifth of that (1g* is probably at least 5, 10+ therapeutic doses, maybe 20 or more DON'T QUOTE ME ON THIS)... is the $900 going straight into the pocket of the psychiatrist/clinic/facility/"system"? Yes, yes it is.

Such a figure you'd expect for an illegal ibogaine source or something...and ketamine is not a biologic; I have no reason to believe its synthesis is expensive whatsoever. And trust me the SA prices are already ass-rape.

* I might have mis-read the SA page.
 
captainheroin, so you already tried ketamine for depression i assume. why do you think there are better medications out there? i cant think of any new antidepressants with such rapid effect. are you talking about classic antidepressants as still being relevant?

i was also wondering since i read on reddit people mentioning 6 deaths in trial with ketamine. it seems 3 were suicide. i wonder the applications of this.
the other 3 seem to be in elderly individuals with health problems and one was motorcycle accident perhaps because the guy didnt wait long enough to operate machinery under the influence.
 
$900 for the s-isomer? For one dose? That's fucking insane.



I have PTSD, severe depression and I only get momentary after-glow 1, maybe 2 days stopping definitely at a week for the anti-depressive effect. There are better medications out there and at $900 per session that is insane.

It is literally an ass-rape price. The drugs from sigma aldrich don't go for a fifth of that (1g* is probably at least 5, 10+ therapeutic doses, maybe 20 or more DON'T QUOTE ME ON THIS)... is the $900 going straight into the pocket of the psychiatrist/clinic/facility/"system"? Yes, yes it is.

Such a figure you'd expect for an illegal ibogaine source or something...and ketamine is not a biologic; I have no reason to believe its synthesis is expensive whatsoever. And trust me the SA prices are already ass-rape.

* I might have mis-read the SA page.

I suggest you don't do it then, it's quite simple.

It is still a newsworthy item.
 
There are better medications out there and at $900 per session that is insane.

It is literally an ass-rape price. The drugs from sigma aldrich don't go for a fifth of that (1g* is probably at least 5, 10+ therapeutic doses, maybe 20 or more DON'T QUOTE ME ON THIS)... is the $900 going straight into the pocket of the psychiatrist/clinic/facility/"system"? Yes, yes it is.

Such a figure you'd expect for an illegal ibogaine source or something...and ketamine is not a biologic; I have no reason to believe its synthesis is expensive whatsoever. And trust me the SA prices are already ass-rape.

The price of a newly-approved drug is never a reflection of its manufacturing cost. The main cost in developing a drug is running the clinical trials, but the real driver of these high costs is the pre-clinical and clinical failure rates. You don't play a lottery where you have a one-in-a-million chance of winning $1, right? Since the vast majority of drug development programs - and the vast majority of new companies attempting to develop drugs - fail, companies have to entice investors with big profits when the programs are actually successful.

That said, this was a "safe bet" drug that was essentially already in use off-label, so J&J are basically just reaping the benefit of winning a race. If I were an insurance company, I would allow off-label use of generic ketamine for the same purpose and save a lot of money.

The $900 figure is likely just the cost for the drug itself and doesn't account for costs that the clinic will charge.
 
captainheroin, so you already tried ketamine for depression i assume. why do you think there are better medications out there? i cant think of any new antidepressants with such rapid effect. are you talking about classic antidepressants as still being relevant?

i was also wondering since i read on reddit people mentioning 6 deaths in trial with ketamine. it seems 3 were suicide. i wonder the applications of this.
the other 3 seem to be in elderly individuals with health problems and one was motorcycle accident perhaps because the guy didnt wait long enough to operate machinery under the influence.

Everyone's brain is different. Ketamine feels odd, scary, the ego completely dissolves, it can be a scary/weird feeling. I don't like it. I was offered more like 20 minutes later and I was like LOL NO! I need like MONTHS Off this before I want to redose. I don't think I ever will.

Ketamine is a deadly drug but NOT VERY deadly. You have to take a massive dosage of it, like fucking massive.

The $900 figure is likely just the cost for the drug itself
I'm sorry, I happen to know a single dose of s-ketamine should be 1% of the listed price. Ass-rape prices.

I suggest you don't do it then, it's quite simple.

It is still a newsworthy item.

Yes but it would be incredibly depressing to waste $900 on a drug that may or may not work.

Get the price down and I'd be happy with it.
 
I just always thought of ketamine as a novelty drug, short lasting and it just always made me feel weird or worse on it. After the effects I would be happy afterglow for just a few days. Normally 1 or 2.

There’s a lot of other drugs which have given me better relief for prolongedly longer.
 
I want to be happy but I'm skeptical. I feel its going to follow the Suboxone model of cash only clinics. This always brings out exploitation and shady characters. It also locks out a significant portion of people who could be helped. All in the name of stopping diversion. When I can order MXE and other k analouges straight to my mailbox from China. What a farce.
 
captainheroin, so you already tried ketamine for depression i assume. why do you think there are better medications out there? i cant think of any new antidepressants with such rapid effect. are you talking about classic antidepressants as still being relevant?

i was also wondering since i read on reddit people mentioning 6 deaths in trial with ketamine. it seems 3 were suicide. i wonder the applications of this.
the other 3 seem to be in elderly individuals with health problems and one was motorcycle accident perhaps because the guy didnt wait long enough to operate machinery under the influence.

I have alleviation from my depression for much longer with substances like methamphetamine, 2c-_, perhaps even LSD or DMT.

Ketamine's AD effects wear off remarkably quickly for me.
 
$900 for the s-isomer? For one dose? That's fucking insane.



I have PTSD, severe depression and I only get momentary after-glow 1, maybe 2 days stopping definitely at a week for the anti-depressive effect. There are better medications out there and at $900 per session that is insane.

It is literally an ass-rape price. The drugs from sigma aldrich don't go for a fifth of that (1g* is probably at least 5, 10+ therapeutic doses, maybe 20 or more DON'T QUOTE ME ON THIS)... is the $900 going straight into the pocket of the psychiatrist/clinic/facility/"system"? Yes, yes it is.

Such a figure you'd expect for an illegal ibogaine source or something...and ketamine is not a biologic; I have no reason to believe its synthesis is expensive whatsoever. And trust me the SA prices are already ass-rape.

* I might have mis-read the SA page.

^ to the above post I am fairly sure that ketamine is used more often for putting Cats to Sleep but I assume "horse tranquilizer" sounds more hardcore than "cat killer drug" for selling it on the street lol. I think they barely use Ketamine for Horses and only for rare circumstances from what I barely remember researching this subject so someone correct me if I'm wrong about this though.


Amen to this post lol that's all I gotta say but I don't know much about ketamine with the I-Somer difference I read it has subtle difference or i forget I only research drugs when I plan to do them and acquire them and I have only recently started researching ketamine for this specific use without paying out the ass and getting a cheaper alternative from a good friend with a Veterinarian Grade Liquid Ketamine.


I have not researched this yet as I don't have time but is 2-FDCK RC Analogue of Ketamine at all similar enough to produce the same Anti-Depressant Effects. I wonder this about MDMA Vs. 6-APB or 5-APB and the Therapeutic Effects difference I assume nobody really knows this answer yet right?
 
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to the above post I am fairly sure that ketamine is used more often for putting Cats to Sleep but I assume "horse tranquilizer" sounds more hardcore than "cat killer drug" for selling it on the street lol.

It's also a very common human medicine, especially in paediatrics.
 
^ to the above post I am fairly sure that ketamine is used more often for putting Cats to Sleep but I assume "horse tranquilizer" sounds more hardcore than "cat killer drug" for selling it on the street lol.

Ketamine is used for anaesthesia, NOT euthanasia. It is virtually impossible to kill someone with an overdose of ketamine (that said, chronic bladder/kidney toxicity is very much a problem in hardcore ketamine addicts).

If you want to put down an animal, you use barbiturates (typically pentobarbital, I believe).
Ketamine's main advantage is actually that it doesn't really cause respiratory depression, making it a very safe method for anaesthesizing animals (including members of h. sapiens) for surgery.
 
^ to the above post I am fairly sure that ketamine is used more often for putting Cats to Sleep but I assume "horse tranquilizer" sounds more hardcore than "cat killer drug" for selling it on the street lol. I think they barely use Ketamine for Horses and only for rare circumstances from what I barely remember researching this subject so someone correct me if I'm wrong about this though.


Amen to this post lol that's all I gotta say but I don't know much about ketamine with the I-Somer difference I read it has subtle difference or i forget I only research drugs when I plan to do them and acquire them and I have only recently started researching ketamine for this specific use without paying out the ass and getting a cheaper alternative from a good friend with a Veterinarian Grade Liquid Ketamine.


I have not researched this yet as I don't have time but is 2-FDCK RC Analogue of Ketamine at all similar enough to produce the same Anti-Depressant Effects. I wonder this about MDMA Vs. 6-APB or 5-APB and the Therapeutic Effects difference I assume nobody really knows this answer yet right?

The analouge methoxetamine is extremely similar. It was actually designed by a former bluelighter. It was designed to be a physically safer version of the drug in relation to bladder damage. I'm sure it hasn't been studied in relation to depression. From my anecdotal experience it dose have an antidepressant effect.
 
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