Steroids and Drug Testing? Jon Jones/UFC Situation, is he ACTUALLY CLEAN?!?!?

lman_15

Bluelighter
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Jul 5, 2010
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I've been a long time UFC fan and have watched Jones fight forever, he's popped for steroids a bunch of times, but recently there's been a situation which I NEED ANSWERS TOOO!!! This article below summarizes all the facts of the case:

https://www.mmafighting.com/2019/1/...-found-in-jon-jones-ufc-232-vada-test-results

To me it just sounds like the organization as a whole understands how valuable of an asset Jones is, how much money he can make the organization, they know he cannot pass a drug test, so they've paid off the right people in the right places and weaved together a story so he won't be questioned every time he pops for the same shit.

How can taking oral Turinabol result in you pissing dirty for over a full year in a urine analysis?


"Jones, the UFC light heavyweight champion, was drug tested in competition by the Voluntary Anti-Doping Agency (VADA) in relation to his UFC 232 fight last month with Alexander Gustafsson. The results, which came back this week, showed that the long-term oral Turinabol metabolite that has plagued Jones for more than a year was present, according to information obtained by MMA Fighting from the California State Athletic Commission (CSAC).

Jones had 33 picograms of 4-chloro-18-nor-17β-hydroxymethyl,17α-methyl-5α-androst-13-en-3α-ol (M3) (or DHMCT) in his system, per the commission. The urine sample was collected from him on the day of weigh-ins, Dec. 28. Jones defeated Alexander Gustafsson by third-round TKO in the main event of UFC 232 in Inglewood, Calif., a day later to regain the UFC light heavyweight belt.

CSAC will not take disciplinary action against Jones, executive officer Andy Foster said. This is the same, long-term M3 metabolite that Jones was suspended 15 months for stemming from a July 2017 sample collection in relation to UFC 214, Foster said. Foster said subsequent drug tests on Jones done by VADA, UFC partner USADA, and the commission have come back clean since the in-competition abnormal reading, including fight-night tests.

Foster said he checked again this week with Sports Medicine Research and Testing Laboratory (SMRTL) lab director Dr. Daniel Eichner and Eichner stood by his previous statement that there was no evidence that Jones had re-administered a banned substance and no performance-enhancing benefits.

“I spoke with the scientists,” Foster said. “They stand by their original statement. Nothing has changed. We’ve already punished Jon Jones for the M3 metabolite, which is a long-term metabolite. There’s no grounds to charge somebody twice for the same violation.”

This is the very same metabolite that came up in Jones’ drug-test results multiple times between August 2018 and December 2018, the last of which coming on Dec. 9, which led to the Nevada Athletic Commission (NAC) not wanting to license Jones to fight at UFC 232 without a proper hearing.

With Nevada unable to bring him before the commission until this month, the UFC moved the entire UFC 232 card, originally scheduled for Las Vegas, to Southern California. Foster, who had dealt with Jones’ UFC 214 situation, already had an understanding of the case and he trusted the word of Eichner and other experts that there was no evidence that Jones had taken any new prohibited substances. SMRTL is the lab that analyzed all of the Jones tests that have turned up the metabolite.

The published science on oral Turinabol states that the M3 metabolite of oral Turinabol can be detected in someone’s system for 40 to 50 days, though no new peer-reviewed studies have been done since 2011, because Turinabol is an illegal drug. This in-competition sample Dec. 28 was collected about 17 months after Jones initially tested positive for the metabolite. Per USADA and the UFC, the science in these cases is evolving and the amount found in Jones’ system is ultra trace down to the picogram level.

UFC vice president of athlete health and performance Jeff Novitzky told MMA Fighting that he’s not at all surprised that the M3 metabolite is still in Jones’ system and “pulsing” or showing up at different times. Novitzky said experts have theorized that the metabolite pops up in drug tests when Jones is cutting weight or doing heavy exercise, which could explain the weigh-in day abnormal reading. Like CSAC, USADA will not be taking any action against Jones for this instance, Novitzky said.

“Science-wise, it does make some sense,” Novitzky said. “Once again, there was no parent compound and none of the short- or medium-term metabolites, which tend to stick around for three or weeks. So this is even more indicative that for whatever reason this long-term metabolite is just hanging around in these tissues and they get expressed when you’re going through weight loss.”

Novitzky said USADA has found another UFC fighter, whom he would not name, who is going through a similar “pulsing” situation with the M3 metabolite. He had mentioned fighter Grant Dawson previously as someone who had that metabolite in his system and a similar circumstance. USADA ultimately cleared Dawson.

Novitzky assured that USADA is not giving Jones a proverbial get-out-of-jail-free card every time this steroid metabolite pops up in his system.

“I don’t think it’s a blanket statement that every time that metabolite shows up that it’s automatically considered no re-administration,” he said “They’re looking at a lot of different factors each time it does show up. They’re looking at biological passport information to determine, are any of these other levels suspicious or raising or dropping. They’re looking to see if they can detect any of the shorter or medium term metabolites. It’s not accurate to say that every time this expresses itself in Jon it’s an automatic free pass. They look at it in detail every time it shows up to make sure that everything is consistent with no re-administration and no performance-enhancing benefit.”

Jones, 31, all along has denied knowingly taking any banned substances. He was suspended 15 months in his USADA case stemming from the UFC 214 positive test. Jones was facing a four-year ban as a repeat offender, but that was reduced to 18 months when Jones provided “substantial assistance,” or cooperation in an undisclosed, separate case. The suspension was reduced again to 15 months when arbitrator Richard McLaren determined that Jones did not likely ingest a prohibited substance intentionally.

The first time Jones, regarded as one of the best MMA fighters of all time, tested positive under USADA was in 2016, for the anti-estrogen agents clomiphene and Letrozol. He was suspended one year after arbitration in that case.

The fight against Gustafsson was Jones’ first bout since his win over Daniel Cormier was overturned at UFC 214 due to the positive drug test. Jones is now scheduled to defend his title against Anthony Smith in the main event of UFC 235 on March 2 in Las Vegas.

That booking is contingent on Jones being licensed by the NAC. Jones is scheduled to go before the commission in a hearing next Tuesday."
 
Didnt read everything as I dont keep up with MMA much but given that I do and have worked with athletes to help them pass drug tests (not as much anymore but currently working with an Olympic competitor, mostly collegiate otherwise), heres the realty - everyone takes shit. Those who dont are the severe, severe minority
 
Didnt read everything as I dont keep up with MMA much but given that I do and have worked with athletes to help them pass drug tests (not as much anymore but currently working with an Olympic competitor, mostly collegiate otherwise), heres the realty - everyone takes shit. Those who dont are the severe, severe minority

Those that don't, don't win anything...!!
 
The biggest problem with PED use in higher tier sports is the fact that the entire industry is obliged to waste so much time and effort denying something so fundamental to its success. The sooner people are forced to face up to reality and embrace the magic that is the unity of amazing athletes using sophisticated pharmacological enhancements to break new records, the better for everyone.
 
There was some theory about Jones using Cheque Drops and this being what caused the test results. Either the drops being tainted with tbol or just crossing of metabolites. I dont know nearly enough to have a clue if this theory has any merit.
 
I heard another theory that says that basically Jon Jones and other high level athletes currently testing positive multiple times for picogram quantities of this M3 metabolite, are taking a new designer steroid that has never been publicly sold and that produces that metabolite without any of the intermediates M1 and M2 that would be found if he did take Turinabol.
Basically Balco 2.0.
Jones has been using steroids for a long time now, in one of the Cormier fights his own testosterone was well into the clinically relevant low range.
Makes sense to me, but impossible to prove/disprove.
 
I see no evidence that Nick or Nate Diaz use PED's....?

It's certainly not reflected in their physiques.
 
I see no evidence that Nick or Nate Diaz use PED's....?

It's certainly not reflected in their physiques.

I dont know who these guys are so I wont comment specifically but during undergrad I sold gear to plenty of frat guys who were running a gram of gear and never looked like they had ever been in the gym in their lives

*Disclaimer: I did typically refuse to sell to them if they didn?t know what they were doing, risks, diet, training, etc. Only sold to the guys who got it somewhere else and then lost their plug and got left hanging...so just the ones who had already tucked their endocrine systems lol
 
I see no evidence that Nick or Nate Diaz use PED's....?

It's certainly not reflected in their physiques.

Steroids are PEDs, but not all PEDs are steroids.
They are not jacked, but they might be using something like EPO to increase their red blood cell count as they have remarkable endurance.
 
Didnt read everything as I dont keep up with MMA much but given that I do and have worked with athletes to help them pass drug tests (not as much anymore but currently working with an Olympic competitor, mostly collegiate otherwise), heres the realty - everyone takes shit. Those who dont are the severe, severe minority
im wondering why athletes dont use ITTP more, much safer than EPO, plus much cheaper!
 
im wondering why athletes dont use ITTP more, much safer than EPO, plus much cheaper!

I think mostly because it isn’t quite as available or well known. Actually got a collegiate D1 coach working with it a few years ago.

And yeah, HGH is an easy go-to for something that’s relatively hard to detect
 
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