How can I reassure myself nothing bad will happen from trying 10ml ghb?

[Tieeurrrop]

I just somehow need to feel safe that my life won't spiral out of control just from trying 10ml but my mind keeps spiking with anxiety of 'what if this, what if that' then I despise myself even more for being too afraid to try and just do nothing and stay stuck in life.

I want to try it so badly for the purported pro social effects. All of my soul crushing depression is caused by my misanthropic mindset but I can't just 'snap out of it'. If I could just find a substance that I could take acutely (I stress acutely not all the time!) to push me to socialize I could change my life - I know how to communicate once I have made first contact but I feel like there is an impenetrable barrier of cynicism and negativity preventing me from doing so.

Stimulants are able to reverse this mindset but they also destroy me psychologically and physically when they wear off the so the price is too high. If GHB could contain even 1/2 of the pro social effects of mdma or dopamine type stimulants (which I read it does and more) without the aforementioned destruction that could be seriously life changing. I absolutely don't want to be on something 24/7 like anti-depressants, or do stupid talk therapy where they just tell you 'there there'. I know exactly what my problem is! I just need a tool to push me through it.

I don't want any lectures about going the 'traditional route'. I tried that stuff and it isn't for me. I believe finding the correct molecule to change your brain chemistry in the correct circumstances (acutely not chronically) can do more than that stuff could. I know exactly what my problem is as I said above and I don't need to waste time discussing it or waiting months to get an audience with doctors.

I have used other substances successfully before to no ill effect such as kratom it is just EVERY time that I try a possibly addictive substance now days I get so focused and obsessed with the worst case side effects and just ruminate on them ad infinitum.

This though is a symptom of my depression I think, the depression which is caused by lack of human contact causing me to blow things out of proportion, and I am too afraid to try a substance which may allow me some freedom from this plight, so it is a self perpetuating machine.

I just want to try it and be able to decide from a position of experience whether it would be for me or not yet I feel like a prisoner of my mind.

I had this exact same fear before ordering kratom before I had even tried it as I was obsessed thinking it would be a road to opiate addiction as it being an opioid was a huge spector in my mind (and that came to nothing once I finally tried it and got over my irrational fear).

I would just like opinions as to how to acheive this goal of trying GHB in a safe manner and not to be talked out of it. I admit that it might not even be for me once I tried it but I want to have actually tried it to know for sure so I can cross it off the list. I just somehow need to suppress my overactive critical thinking faculties, or somehow be persuaded it won't end in catastrophe, to more reasonable levels long enough to order and try it.

 

[Vastness]

I don't want any lectures about going the 'traditional route'. I tried that stuff and it isn't for me. I believe finding the correct molecule to change your brain chemistry in the correct circumstances (acutely not chronically) can do more than that stuff could. I know exactly what my problem is as I said above and I don't need to waste time discussing it or waiting months to get an audience with doctors.

If you'll forgive me for ignoring your request regarding the kind of responses you want - I would suggest that you probably don't know exactly what your problem is, since the only thing you are really uniquely acquainted with are the symptoms of your problem. Besides that, I guarantee you that your own depression is not unique, and almost everyone who has experienced mental illness and also has some kind of interest in or experience with psychoactive substances will have thought the exact same thoughts about their own situation. When it comes down to it though, these are all rationalisations for seeking an easier route to recovery than that which has the surest likelihood of long-term success. That's OK of course, mental illness is a struggle and we're all hardwired to want an easier route, and why shouldn't we seek such a thing? But IMO, it's still advisable to recognise this desire for what it is.

To respond to your actual question more directly - in my opinion you are asking for something that no-one here is going to be able to do in good conscience while still upholding the Bluelight ethos of "harm reduction". No one here (I hope) is going to try to persuade you to take a substance that you are wary of taking. GHB has risks associated with it, like all drugs do - but if you want to try it, and have taken the time to make sure you are as informed as possible about the risks - then that's your own decision.

I will say though that overwhelming evidence suggests that GHB is not going to be the magic molecule which will show you a way out of your depression, so if this is your only motivation to use it I would suggest you don't bother. Also - I know that's an oversimplification about what you're looking for - but when it comes down to it, this is what any such rationalisations can be boiled down to - to be blunt. Please don't take this post to be dismissive of your plight either - I respect and understand the desire to find such a substance and have looked for one myself. I haven't found it yet, but maybe there is one out there. But again, overwhelming evidence suggests that for you or anyone, GHB is not it, and even if you do find "it", if you don't back this up with more "traditional", ie, non-substance oriented techniques to manage your mental health, then any benefits imparted by any such substance will eventually fade.

 

[Nicholai]

For some information on how to more safely take GHB, see:

https://erowid.org/chemicals/ghb/

 

[burn out]

Ten milligram of GHB? I can't assure you that won't end in catastrophe, on the contrary if your GHB is as potent as mine 10 ml probably will end in catastrophe. I suggest starting with a low dose, I usually take about 1.5 ml but again, I don't know to what strength yours is mixed. If you just take a low dose there is very little chance of it going wrong.

 

[burn out]

I will say though that overwhelming evidence suggests that GHB is not going to be the magic molecule which will show you a way out of your depression, so if this is your only motivation to use it I would suggest you don't bother. Also - I know that's an oversimplification about what you're looking for - but when it comes down to it, this is what any such rationalisations can be boiled down to - to be blunt. Please don't take this post to be dismissive of your plight either - I respect and understand the desire to find such a substance and have looked for one myself. I haven't found it yet, but maybe there is one out there. But again, overwhelming evidence suggests that for you or anyone, GHB is not it, and even if you do find "it", if you don't back this up with more "traditional", ie, non-substance oriented techniques to manage your mental health, then any benefits imparted by any such substance will eventually fade.

what is this overwhelming evidence you speak of? In my opinion, GHB is one of the best pro social substances out there. No, it's not a panacea but it could quite reasonably be of use in helping someone who struggles to socialize.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

You can and will overdose from a drug like this; it has a very sharp dose/effects curve.

Ten milligram of GHB? I can't assure you that won't end in catastrophe, on the contrary if your GHB is as potent as mine 10 ml probably will end in catastrophe. I suggest starting with a low dose, I usually take about 1.5 ml but again, I don't know to what strength yours is mixed. If you just take a low dose there is very little chance of it going wrong.

qft x 1 million

to OP: Please go on erowid.org and read some of the blackout GHB experiences. Nasty. You should be thankful if you haven't yet taken a severe overdose.

what is this overwhelming evidence you speak of? In my opinion, GHB is one of the best pro social substances out there. No, it's not a panacea but it could quite reasonably be of use in helping someone who struggles to socialize.

also qft x 1 million

 

[Tieeurrrop]

Ten milligram of GHB? I can't assure you that won't end in catastrophe, on the contrary if your GHB is as potent as mine 10 ml probably will end in catastrophe. I suggest starting with a low dose, I usually take about 1.5 ml but again, I don't know to what strength yours is mixed. If you just take a low dose there is very little chance of it going wrong.

I was not clear I guess- by 10ml I didn't mean 10ml all at once but rather I meant buy 10ml total so as not to buy too much. I would be taking a tiny dose to begin with and titrate up of course, as should be the case with any new batch/substance. The fear is simply the fear of the unknown of not having tried the substance as well as it having more warning markers than other drugs.

 

[Tieeurrrop]

what is this overwhelming evidence you speak of? In my opinion, GHB is one of the best pro social substances out there. No, it's not a panacea but it could quite reasonably be of use in helping someone who struggles to socialize.

Right on. I notice there is a very narrow minded view on the general internet in terms of taking drugs for self improvement and you just get the same drone like responses of 'seek therapy'. It seems straight out of the anti-drug propaganda playbook.

I find this very hypocritical when wild untargeted hedonism is the usual way most people use drugs and that is considered a ok.

 

[Tieeurrrop]

You can and will overdose from a drug like this; it has a very sharp dose/effects curve. qft x 1 million to OP: Please go on erowid.org and read some of the blackout GHB experiences. Nasty. You should be thankful if you haven't yet taken a severe overdose. also qft x 1 million

Well from the quite extensive reading I have done on it unless you massively overdose a slight overdose is perfectly safe provided you are at home; you simply fall asleep. I would not dose out of the house until I had found the right dose for the right desired results through careful experimentation.

As is well documented xyrem is prescribed up to maximum 4.5 grams x twice per night. These are what one would consider knockout doses rather than recreational doses and for sociability/depression alleviation the doses I think are way below that. 1-2 gram range from what I have read.

Online there seems to be a lot of conflation between an overdose meaning you just fall asleep and wake up a bit later and a medical emergency overdose of risk of dying which seems to be a lot higher like 4x a normal dose. I mean falling into a G sleep in a public setting would surely look like an emergency and of course could be through loss of consciousness in the wrong setting but in a home setting that is just a recommended prescribed xyrem dose isn't it.

 

[CFC]

How do you get on with alcohol for this purpose OP?

 

[Vastness]

what is this overwhelming evidence you speak of? In my opinion, GHB is one of the best pro social substances out there. No, it's not a panacea but it could quite reasonably be of use in helping someone who struggles to socialize.

Admittedly, I might have slightly misinterpreted the OP's post, in retrospect. However I was answering from the perspective of advising someone looking for a substance with some potential long-term benefit. Again, admittedly, it's hard to quantify long term benefit since obviously the acute effects of some substances can be taken advantage of for lasting positive benefits. But GHB is a GABA-ergic and GABAergics don't have good track records historically for helping people overcome depression and other mental illnesses compared to non-GABA oriented treatments (even pharmaceutical). I don't personally see much reason to think that GHB is something special in this regard, it is a fairly old substance now, there's a fair bit of research on it, without citing any specific studies logic dictates that if there was something special about it it would have been spotted by now. But, perhaps not, perhaps I shouldn't use terms like "overwhelming"... but I would think surely more evidence than not suggests that it has similar effects on long term mood and behaviour as other substances within this class.

Right on. I notice there is a very narrow minded view on the general internet in terms of taking drugs for self improvement and you just get the same drone like responses of 'seek therapy'. It seems straight out of the anti-drug propaganda playbook.

I find this very hypocritical when wild untargeted hedonism is the usual way most people use drugs and that is considered a ok.

I'm a big fan of taking drugs for self-improvement, again, I think perhaps I misunderstood your intentions with this substance in some respects. I just think honestly sometimes people need a reality check with regards to the benefits of psychotherapy, especially when compared to muddling through things on their own and substances with a high abuse potential. Most people believe that they know themselves a little to a lot better than they actually do, and even the mentally "well" should usually benefit from having a critical look at the workings of their own psyche with someone who has actually studied human psychology and is a professional in their field.

I don't practice what I preach here entirely because I have been self medicating for years and have had a lot less therapy than I probably should have done in this time, so I understand the mindset. Obviously I don't know you though, perhaps you're a statistical outlier on the scale of having innate insight into your own mind, and perhaps I shouldn't presume to judge otherwise.

 

[Troglodyte]

I absolutely use drugs for self improvement as well, but, many drugs used for this can backfire hard. GHB/GBL can seriously backfire. You'll really like the way that it loosens you up and makes you jonny on the spot, you ride high on it and it does what it sounds like your looking for, however, and here's the catch, it only lasts 2-3 hours, but your not done hanging out, socializing, etc. so it wont be a big deal taking it again this once...but that situation will happen again and again until its not taboo to you to use it more liberally now. but it's ok, you've got it under control. but it got you thinking, the G can probably help me do this stuff around the house, cuz it makes me feel good and on top of things(which most likely isnt true). and you wake up some morning feeling like crap and you knowwhat will make you feel better, and it does, so you realize "this beats the fuck out of coffee" and you find yourself doing it well, pretty much all the time. your already mentally addicted by that point. But very soon you will be physically addicted and you'll have to take a dose every 2-3 hours around the clock. youll wake up multiple times in the middle of the night and need another dose. Every 2-3 hours, 24 hours a day, every freaking day. you can't goanywhere without a little glass or HDPE container, and you have to escape every 2 hours to redose. And this addiction will have negative and lasting effects on your brain that you dont want.

as you might have guessed, ive been there, just with GBL. i started out knowing id use it responsibly and sparingly, but the way our brains our built, the use of drugs that heavily stimulate our rewards centers twist your intention to thier will. we make poor and possibly irrational decisions, we justify our use, and sometimes slowly, sometimes quickly, we fall into the trap. I did for 3+ years, and it was the sociability i liked most,the party never ended. but then it did. and it royally fucked my memory to this day, tho there was improvement from when i first stopped. but i was thinking very much like you(OP), im pretty confident that the particular effects your looking for(same as mine) make us prime candidates to slip right down that slope. Theres plenty of other negatives it causes,but im hoping my point was made adequately. it kinda left me a bit of a shell of who i was in some ways.

As lame as it sounds to people who like drugs, You actually might benefit most from an ssri or snri. They actually have a good track record for social anxiety, and depression, both of which were what you said you wanted to address, and theres a significant chance theyll work.
Gabapentin is what works best for me, it allows me to be the full person i was before gbl scrambled me up. helps sociability, motivation, depression, it's great. and the negatives are far more tolerable and potential damage far less, so you might want to try that before ghb

 

[mostly-human]

GHB is a shitty drug. people on it are the worst IME. Please don't.

 

[burn out]

Admittedly, I might have slightly misinterpreted the OP's post, in retrospect. However I was answering from the perspective of advising someone looking for a substance with some potential long-term benefit. Again, admittedly, it's hard to quantify long term benefit since obviously the acute effects of some substances can be taken advantage of for lasting positive benefits. But GHB is a GABA-ergic and GABAergics don't have good track records historically for helping people overcome depression and other mental illnesses compared to non-GABA oriented treatments (even pharmaceutical). I don't personally see much reason to think that GHB is something special in this regard, it is a fairly old substance now, there's a fair bit of research on it, without citing any specific studies logic dictates that if there was something special about it it would have been spotted by now. But, perhaps not, perhaps I shouldn't use terms like "overwhelming"... but I would think surely more evidence than not suggests that it has similar effects on long term mood and behaviour as other substances within this class.

Well I'd have to sort of disagree with you about GABAergics track record. While I agree they are not ideal for depression, I think the do have a very good track record in terms of helping people be a little bit more social.

Take alcohol for example. It has a long history of social use in multiple cultures and many people can attest to having it help them open a little more in social situations. Another example would be kava. It also has a long history of social use in Polynesia and I've read the polynesians have ranked as the number one happiest people on earth. THere's no doubt in my mind that kava is part of the reason for that ranking. A more recent example would be phenibut, which is not a substance I like but many people have reported it benefiting them in terms of social anxiety. Then there is also the amanita muscaria mushroom, which has some GABAergic activity and a long history of medicinal and shamanic use in Siberia and parts of Europe.

So in terms of a substance to help someone enjoy socializing a bit more and feel less anxiety, I would like to hear a better suggestion than GABAergics. As for GHB not being special, I'd disagree with that also although of course everyone will respond differently. To me, it seemed like a very special substance and I wish I had had access to it earlier in my life when I could made more use of its benefits. Here is a blog which details some of the positive benefits people experience: https://fr0gman.wordpress.com/discover-the-regenerative-effects-of-ghb-the-elixir-of-life/

 

[Wiserthanearlier]

Ghb is a wonderful drug. But alcohol is similiar in the effect your wanting it for. Let me be clear, ghb is wonderful and amazing fun, however your specific use is the same as alcohol provides.

Can i suggest bromantane?
It is subtle.
It is effective.
It isnt abusable, ive tried.


It has a long build up, easy to plan but provides what your seeking.
Only other point is, you need to be careful and not use too much. Its benign nature shouldnt be ignored, it is a drug thst works well

 

[burn out]

It is not the same as alcohol in my experience. For me, alcohol is not a very good social drug. I tend to get sedated after a couple drinks and find my interest in meeting new people actually decreases. Also, for me the pro social effects of alcohol are quite brief and then the next day I feel less social and actually find other people more irritating than normal. With GHB on the other hand, it has a bit less of the mind numbing effects of alcohol and it also makes me feel more empathic toward other people. I also find that the effects of GHB linger. For example, if I take some GHB at night then the following day social interaction flows much more easily than normal, even if I don't feel high anymore. That is quite different from alcohol.

 

[Vastness]

Well I'd have to sort of disagree with you about GABAergics track record. While I agree they are not ideal for depression, I think the do have a very good track record in terms of helping people be a little bit more social.

Take alcohol for example. It has a long history of social use in multiple cultures and many people can attest to having it help them open a little more in social situations. Another example would be kava. It also has a long history of social use in Polynesia and I've read the polynesians have ranked as the number one happiest people on earth. THere's no doubt in my mind that kava is part of the reason for that ranking. A more recent example would be phenibut, which is not a substance I like but many people have reported it benefiting them in terms of social anxiety. Then there is also the amanita muscaria mushroom, which has some GABAergic activity and a long history of medicinal and shamanic use in Siberia and parts of Europe.

So in terms of a substance to help someone enjoy socializing a bit more and feel less anxiety, I would like to hear a better suggestion than GABAergics. As for GHB not being special, I'd disagree with that also although of course everyone will respond differently. To me, it seemed like a very special substance and I wish I had had access to it earlier in my life when I could made more use of its benefits. Here is a blog which details some of the positive benefits people experience: https://fr0gman.wordpress.com/discover-the-regenerative-effects-of-ghb-the-elixir-of-life/

Oh yeah, I'm not questioning that GABAergics can help people be more social - while they're actually under the influence of them. Obviously this is a given and I don't think anyone would dispute that. I'm also a big fan of phenibut personally. I'm talking about long term benefits here though, I'm not sold on those for any GABAergics, and I'm not aware of much evidence to the contrary. I think this is reflected in the fact that psychiatry has generally moved away from prescribing benzodiazepines and gabapentinoids as first choice medicines for the treatment of anxiety disorders.

Not all GABAergics are equal of course, and I would say it seems to me that kava or amanita muscaria would be safer options than GHB. I'll admit I have yet to try GHB myself, and I think if someone is curious about it and capable of being sensible about it then it's worth a shot, but just as a general rule for most people it's a risky substance if you're taking it hoping for it to be a solution to something, ie, social anxiety. Everyone is different of course and for some people GHB maybe is that magic substance that provides just the push they need, they're not excessively tempted to overuse, don't develop any kind of dependence (even psychological) and go on to live much happier lives... perhaps this was the case for you. But, this would not be a typical result. Most people won't necessarily develop an issue of course - for most people it will just be another anxiolytic, fun substance to add to their repertoire which they take occasionally and feel better while they're on it... and that's it. I'll have a read of that blog though, that looks interesting, thanks for the link.

 

[Tieeurrrop]

Alcohol is a disgusting toxic feeling I can't stand it; just after one sip I feel my pores drying up like a prune. GHB sounds like the dis-inhibition of alcohol while having non of the toxic effects of alcohol while also remaining more cogent and more empathetic to boot.

I avoid all substances which have a heavy body load now days. The only thing I take regular currently is kratom which passes through the body real smooth.

I've tried all the other usual and some unusual suspects before leading me to wanting to try GHB; most failed for having unpleasant body load related side effects or just not effective/too weak to be anything above placebo. From what I have read GHB being endogenous to the body passes through the system in as clean a manner as could be imagined -converted to water and carbon dioxide which is breathed out by the lungs- you can't beat that in terms of clean metabolism!- which is what has led me, among other reasons, to wanting to try it over those other more likely candidates.

 

[Tieeurrrop]

https://fr0gman.wordpress.com/discover-the-regenerative-effects-of-ghb-the-elixir-of-life/

I have started reading reading the book by Ward Dean GHB: The Natural Mood Enhancer which is nothing but positive about GHB. Now I do take his and rifat's writings with a pinch of salt since they do seem to have rose tinted glasses about it and downplay any negatives at all but they back their writing up with the scientific papers available at the time and Dean argues that it had 30 years of safe medical use in Europe with no mention of addiction before the westerners and puritanical media got wind of it.

I still read their stuff with a skeptical eye however they offer a good counter balance to the exclusively non-scientific propaganda which is what most people's views are based on. I suppose there are a lot on this forum and elsewhere with first hand experience of it having ruined lives so there is something to say for that of course.

However if it was used no problem medically for 30+ years for treatment of heroin addicts and alcoholics in Europe who we might assume would naturally be more inclined with addictive personalities and laborit himself used it all his life til he dead, 3 times a week apparently, and fed all his friends with it then there must be a therapeutic window to it and room for it to be used safely with the right attitude.

 

[burn out]

Oh yeah, I'm not questioning that GABAergics can help people be more social - while they're actually under the influence of them. Obviously this is a given and I don't think anyone would dispute that. I'm also a big fan of phenibut personally. I'm talking about long term benefits here though, I'm not sold on those for any GABAergics, and I'm not aware of much evidence to the contrary. I think this is reflected in the fact that psychiatry has generally moved away from prescribing benzodiazepines and gabapentinoids as first choice medicines for the treatment of anxiety disorders.

Well I think the OP understands that. I don't he thinks that by taking some GHB this week, it means he will be happier and more social a year from now. As for psychiatry, they moved away from prescribing benzodiazepines because they create a severe dependence syndrome, but they are still over prescribed in my opinion. Psychiatry has not tried treating people with kava or other GABAergic herbs like valerian, because they are herbs and thus not profitable to the drug companies.

Not all GABAergics are equal of course, and I would say it seems to me that kava or amanita muscaria would be safer options than GHB. I'll admit I have yet to try GHB myself, and I think if someone is curious about it and capable of being sensible about it then it's worth a shot, but just as a general rule for most people it's a risky substance if you're taking it hoping for it to be a solution to something, ie, social anxiety. Everyone is different of course and for some people GHB maybe is that magic substance that provides just the push they need, they're not excessively tempted to overuse, don't develop any kind of dependence (even psychological) and go on to live much happier lives... perhaps this was the case for you. But, this would not be a typical result. Most people won't necessarily develop an issue of course - for most people it will just be another anxiolytic, fun substance to add to their repertoire which they take occasionally and feel better while they're on it... and that's it. I'll have a read of that blog though, that looks interesting, thanks for the link.

Well I agree but this is generally what it takes for a potentially addictive drug to help someone - the conditions have to be right and they have to be able to not become addicted.

As for amanita muscaria being safer than GHB, I think that really depends. High doses of amanita can be quite dangerous as it can become powerfully psychedelic. However, it is much less likely to produce an addiction than GHB. In fact, I don't know if there are any known cases of amanita muscaria addiction. GHB is safer in that it is less likely to produce a bad trip.