• Psychedelic Drugs Welcome Guest
    View threads about
    Posting RulesBluelight Rules
    PD's Best Threads Index
    Social ThreadSupport Bluelight
    Psychedelic Beginner's FAQ

2C-P Associated Fatality?

Pfafffed

Moderator: PD
Staff member
Joined
Jun 30, 2015
Messages
1,588
So did I miss something and this has been discussed elsewhere on Bluelight?

I just saw that a trial is underway for the death of Louella Fletcher-Michie. She apparently experienced alarming health problems and died after taking what was believed to be 2C-P at a music festival in the UK. I believe this is the first death associated with 2C-P, although I'm not entirely sure what the cause of death was. It's a strange story, and I've been trying to piece together a plausible narrative out of it for harm reduction purposes, but it just doesn't seem to make sense. Most of the news sources seem to be low quality. Is anyone familiar with this case or know of any good sources for information on just what is believed to have happened?
 
Hmm, hadn't heard of this. I have heard of very alarming overdose experiences on 2C-P though, and it's very potent. There was an account I read years ago of a 16mg experience where the user felt that their life was threatened. If any 2C0X was going to kill someone, it wouldn't surprise me that it would be 2C-P, given its potency and duration.
 
That's possibly the TiHKAL account? I dont think 2c-P is too dangerous. It is very potent but I never noticed serious things like vasoconstriction or anything that I thought could become a serious issue later on . Remember that in the US the 2c-X's became illegal cause some kids snorted "bic" lighter sized lines of it and one died.... A rare case I'd imagine. Given how much that is you can't call 2c-E dangerous cause of it.
 
I saw someone post about this on social media. Really horrible story, the "boyfriend" filmed her suffering and possibly dying at a rave, cajoling her to get over it and so on.. I saw mention of 2C-P in the article I read. I presume there was something more deadly mixed in with the 2C-P, or else it was something else entirely. It would be good to know more about what actually happened and what they took.
 
As dangerous as some of the 2c drugs are, i could easily see this happening under bad circumstances.

Looking at the quality of person the boyfriend was, the environment, their age, and 2C-Ps potency and duration this result is unfortunately not surprising.
Thats why you got to be smart about taking these drugs, with purpose, thoughtfulness and respect.

I used a lot of commas!
 
2c-p is potent, long lasting, and has a steep dose response curve; not to mention takes a long time to hit leading to people redosing thinking they took to little. She most likely took to much, it was something else/cute, or she mixed it with something. Also it doesn't help having shit friends who don't care about your safety and that fact that lots of idiots that sell shit like this may not have a good enough scale and/or put way too much in
That's possibly the TiHKAL account? I dont think 2c-P is too dangerous. It is very potent but I never noticed serious things like vasoconstriction or anything that I thought could become a serious issue later on . Remember that in the US the 2c-X's became illegal cause some kids snorted "bic" lighter sized lines of it and one died.... A rare case I'd imagine. Given how much that is you can't call 2c-E dangerous cause of it.

Wasn't 2c-p one of few 2cs not caught in the ban. From what I heard operation web tryp was sparked because some quadriplegic stuck is tongue in a vial of 2c-t2-1.
 
That's possibly the TiHKAL account? I dont think 2c-P is too dangerous. It is very potent but I never noticed serious things like vasoconstriction or anything that I thought could become a serious issue later on . Remember that in the US the 2c-X's became illegal cause some kids snorted "bic" lighter sized lines of it and one died.... A rare case I'd imagine. Given how much that is you can't call 2c-E dangerous cause of it.

Yes, I remember the story of the kid snorting the 100mgs of 2c-E. Shortly there after was when that sweeping 2c-x bill came into place. And the outcome was people jumping to the Nbomes in masses, what a well executed plan. Wonder how many lives that one cost.

The synthetic drugs control act of 2011/2012....right?
 
Didn't the dude who provided the 2ce just bring a bunch of it over and just lay out giant lines for everyone. I'm not usually for charging people for others overdoses but that dude deserves it.

I heard of some other case were some shithead sold a kid a gram of 25i as mushroom powder and they just poured it in a tray of brownie mix.
 
Man, I thought the 2cxs were banned ultimatly in the USA because of NBOME?

Wasn't the 2ce death the one that got Motionresearch 20yrs? I know they tried to ban the 2cx late 2011, beause I remember stocking up, then that didn't go through, I think Rand Paul had something to do with blocking it. Then they piggybacked it on some stupid unrelated bill summer 2012.
 
Was there actually a real 2C-E death (for some reason I can't view the article?) I didn't watch the news about RCs for many years. I remember a few "2C-E" deaths widely reported in the media, but it turned out to be mislabeled bromo-dragonfly, which I think killed the supplier too, sad all around and the reason for allergy tests and harder tests before even using a "safe" substance (I could be misremembering some specific details, such as if it was 2C-E or another RC that made no sense to kill 2 or 3 people in one go at normal doses.)

And Phenthylo J, I think it was the 2C-T-21 death that sparked operation web tryp, though if I remember correctly there at been 3 or so 5-Meo-AMT deaths as well (from different sources.) The guy who died from 2C-T-21 did basically what you said (I think he might have poured the entire vial in his mouth? Or maybe did as you said and stuck his tongue in the there,) with a Gram of the substance... I'm not sure if they ever figured out if it was a suicide, some sort of accident, or stupidity/ignorance. It's depressing to think about, I had brief communications with the operator of that website. They were brief, but he seemed like a stand up guy to me, fixing a minor, non-dangerous mistake for me without questioning me at all, and unless something has changed he's doing life in prison (which you don't always get for ACTUAL murder here in the the US.)

I've only known one person who's been to prison, an incredibly nice Veteran who lived next to my girlfriend and her friends at the time, (as it wasn't the best area I was glad to have him there due to his size, strength, and everyone who knew him, knew he was the type of guy who'd give his life to protect a stranger.) Unfortunately, he made the mistake of being black... so when his Taxi and 1st time internet date were surrounded by 5 or 6 skinheads, yelling slurs and pounding/stopping the taxi, he stepped out to try to diffuse the situation. Instead he was attacked. He pushed one guy away, and when the 2 second guy attacked him he pushed that guy away too, who tripped, fell backwards, and hit the back of his head on the curb. That second guy went to the hospital, AMAed himself out, and died 2-3 days later. So, my friend was arrested for 2nd degree murder... Besides the skin heads not denying they attacked him, he had the date he didn't know yet, the taxi driver, and 2 others who saw the incident from elsewhere on the street, all calling him a hero who fought in self defense of himself and the others. But, it still took 9 months of prison time for charges to be dropped, (again despite ALL evidence pointing to an accidental killing in self defense, and the guy wouldn't have died if he'd stayed in the damn hospital most likely.) The day he was out, he wasn't the same person, and within a week had moved home across the country and severed communication with us, I've no doubt the 9th months in prison, for defending himself, a girl he didn't know, and a taxi driver he didn't know, still scars him today (I hope he's recovered.) The prison system in the USA is absolutely insane, beyond just the drug war (though that's the worst part probably.) This was in California too, not Georgia or Texas or something (not that that would be better.)

Operation webtryp put 2 people away for life, 2 away for 20 years, and one website site the people somehow skated with "only" 3 or 4 years, all do to 4 deaths out of 100s? of thousands of users. Meanwhile alcohol, driving, aspirin, tobacco, and much more legal drugs kills more than that per day : / That was the beginning of having to import RCs from China and much more sketchy things, with most users having no way of testing their drugs before use (besides allergy testing, which most people frankly don't do.)

Anyway, I've never heard of a real 2C-X death, very sad if that was the real cause or not, no matter how dumb the person was in her use. Now we've got NBOMEs, crazy amphetamine and cathinone analogues, and of course super potent opioid RCs. Somehow I doubt the DEA has learned their lesson. I can't imagine anyone working for the DEA who isn't either extremely ignorant (probably most to be fair,) or who just plain hates druggies and doesn't care about their lives, only about their own pay checks.

RIP to the deceased, whatever it was that happened.
 
The reporting is really bad on this, but the Guardian reports Louella Fletcher-Michie's cause of death as "2C-P" toxicity. The only other drugs found in her system were traces of MDMA and ketamine. Also, she apparently had prior experience with 2C-P.

As to the prior 2C-E fatality, that was a massive insufflated dose in Minnesota in 2011. Ten people were hospitalized, and unfortunately Robinson-Davis died of cardiac arrest.

The death of Fletcher-Michie doesn't sound like reports I've read of the aftermath of the 2C-T-21, 2C-E, 2C-T-7, or NBOME overdoses, which concerns me. She seemed relatively lucid, with no signs of mania and hyperaggression. Lucidity like that on an extremely high dose of 2C-P seems strange. I was surprised that the post mortem didn't find any other drugs. The only other culprit might have been GHB, as it is metabolized too quickly for most coroners to catch it, but there's no evidence to suggest that. If she was experienced and took a reasonable dose, then I'm perplexed and concerned.
 
Journalists have a history of this kind of reporting especially concerning psychedelic drugs. Its easier to paint a boogeyman of "a new killer drug", as fear gets peoples attention. There were probably many factors in her death including her boyfriends way of handling the situation. Most people still have such a negative stigma towards intoxicant use that doesnt include the accepted societal drugs (alcohol,nicotine,caffeine and now in many places cannabis) that they dont even question that it could be more complicated than just an OD on a chemical that "people shouldnt be using anyway". This is bad because it continues counterproductive legal policies and also impacts the ability for proper harm reduction education.
 
The UK Guardian (referred to above) reported on 14th Feb that " ...... death could be the first linked to drug 2C-P ...". It presents a balanced view of a situation with many unknowns (as pointed out above). It goes on to say that experts on both sides - prosecution and defence - despite fully researching world literature, could find no evidence that 2C-P had previously led to a user's death. There have been crises arising for some people but they "...... had been saved after being treated with a defibrillator". It also mentions that even a small increase will have a far more negative effect, as a poster writes above.

So no further forward and no mention of other substances found during the postmortem (which is strange because she would have stopped metabolising them on death and any should have been available - or at least fresh metabolites would have been).

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...may-be-worlds-first-2-cp-fatality-court-hears


It did say in the first report a few days ago that her boyfriend had "upped her dose" as she had a high tolerance.
 
Who knows man. You could die at anytime if your body isn't in the right shape to handle any drugs really if you increase the dose etc etc.
 
A sad occurrence for sure. It's not surprising to me that any of the 2C-xs could cause death, even if it isn't common, they are all phenethylamines after all, which we all know are hardly physiologically benign.

That said I read about this a while back I think but the substance was not mentioned - but given that it was a 2C-x, the apparently callous inaction by her boyfriend while she was clearly experiencing a bad reaction is a little more understandable. There is still no excuse of course for not seeking medical help for someone when it is available nearby and you know they had ingested a relatively unknown substance, fear of prison, other reprisals or not - but, it seems likely the inept bystander(s) here did not act sooner out of a mistaken belief that this substance was a lot safer than it actually was.

As always, the lack of reliable information about these substances as a consequence of prohibition is the real danger.
 
Who knows man. You could die at anytime if your body isn't in the right shape to handle any drugs really if you increase the dose etc etc.

I think that this post is formulated in a way that might sound like "Anyone using any drug can die for a dose that would have been totally safe for others or even that person in another moment, depending on other unspecified circumstances that nobody knows anything about."
While it is kind of true, it is a way of saying a part of the truth in a way that is so generic that the statement is basically useless.
Anything can kill you given the right circumstances.

The point of this post here is not to antagonize Help!?!, let me make that clear; I am in fact pretty sure that post was meant with a different intention.
But I feel I need to point out that current drug laws and policies (almost) worldwide are directly promoting and causing the ignorance, lack of resources, purity/contamination issues, unknown/mistaken substance issues that are behind a number of incidents like this one.
 
Top