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Brexit: Are you a Leaver or Remainer....

^ It's one of those moments when you wonder what they were thinking. They must have known it would go down like a lead balloon with the half who voted Leave.
 
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Unfortunately you can't share images directly from The Guardian Teen Age Riot. You'd need to save the pic to your device and upload to IMGUR or equivalent first.
 
^ It's one of those moments when you wonder what they were thinking. They must have known it would go down like a lead balloon with the half who voted Leave.

I agree with you there 100%, the thing about Verhofstadt is his got quite a history of making dumb comments over Brexit & the UK as general.
When you think of people like him in control it makes the whole concept of the EU quite a foul thing, we went into Europe back when I was young as a trade block & NOT to be told what to do in terms of laws.
 
I agree with you there 100%, the thing about Verhofstadt is his got quite a history of making dumb comments over Brexit & the UK as general.
When you think of people like him in control it makes the whole concept of the EU quite a foul thing, we went into Europe back when I was young as a trade block & NOT to be told what to do in terms of laws.

Well it's true that that was what Heath and the Tories sold it to Brits as, because the UK would never have joined otherwise.

But the EU/EEC/ECSC was never just a trade thing. They never pretended it was either - everything written since 1945 on the subject was about how to bring about a European political and cultural union, facilitated by economic integration.

The only people lying were the Tories, who were too chicken shit to admit that they joined the UK up to the EU in an effort to break the labour unions and the more fundamental proclivities of socialist Labour (state aid, non-market mechanisms etc).
 
I understand how disillusioning it is but I always vote on the principle of 'use it or lose it'.

I always vote Lib Dem as they are the only 'major' party who promise progressive drug reform. I know there is more to life than drugs but if they were not illegal I may not be in quite as much a mess as I currently am.



In 2015, Lib Dems had only 8 elected seats compared to conservatives 331. It was a disaster.

It's in their interest to create a new tact. The whole "Legalise weed" stance, imo s just a ploy to make them up with the major players again. They'll just make up a reason to make them prominent again.
 
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Brexiteers would ?DIVIDE HELL?, says EU Parliament?s Brexit negotiator, gets roasted .
https://www.rt.com/news/450872-verhofstadt-hell-brexit-eu-uk/

It is all well & good for Verhofstadt to beak off like usual (he always makes me think of a guard at Treblinka) but it wont be the streets he has to walk down that will echo the the sound of The Cranberries - Zombie when it all goes wrong.

I don't blame Farage at all for saying he's got the charisma of a damp rag.
 
Unfortunately you can't share images directly from The Guardian Teen Age Riot. You'd need to save the pic to your device and upload to IMGUR or equivalent first.

I did the imgur thing as well but it went tits up for some reason.

trying again.

this is pretty much the only thing that's relevant about brexshit
1IxBJ5y



https://imgur.com/a/1IxBJ5y[\img]
[IMG]https://imgur.com/a/1IxBJ5y
 
Probably going to regret wading into this thread, but was really pleasantly surprised by the amount of people admitting to not understanding the question. This, I think, is the crux of the issue. The general populace are just not well versed enough in international economics, politics and the complex interplay of many varied nationalities and cultures on the global stage. It's likely not even possible to acquire a sufficient understanding of the required areas to be qualified to make a judgement either way, unless you have devoted your life to this task - ie, you are a politician, an elected official, someone actually intimately involved with the myriad of interconnecting factors in this opaque can of worms. This whole situation is absurd, and an unforgivable drain on the time and resources of the political system in the UK. The referendum, everything, the idea, the campaigns, the vote, from start to finish, was the most transparent example of the populace of an entire nation being reduced to nothing but a single pawn in a game of political chess that I can honestly remember... unfortunately the game is being played with the future of entire nations.


I don't & have never lived in the UK. But I'm honestly shocked by the majority sentiment expressed here. I think the EU has always been a terrible idea. And I absolutely do not believe in multiculturalism. I am very pessimistic about the future of the West overall due to the rapidly changing demographics (though we've all been on a very bad path since WW2 here in Europe, to varying degrees).

I value true diversity aka segregation of ethnic groups so that we retain our unique evolutionary heritages & culture. Instead, we are paying to be genocided - by we I mean White Europeans - due to our traitor leaders. Germany has changed SO radically since I moved here in 2012 & I live in a rural area in a village & almost never go out, but it's just SO obvious.
I disagree with almost everything you've said - without wanting to get too deep into an argument I have little interest in, I will just say that to oppose multiculturalism is to oppose a truly free world for all of humankind. Do you think if we are all still here in 1000 years time anyone is going to care what part of rock sticking out of the ocean your great-great-ad-infinitum grandparents were born? The sooner we can stop squabbling amongst ourselves on this tenuous, highly vulnerable ecosystem which is our planet, the sooner we can commit to fixing REAL PROBLEMS, like the amount of human beings who still suffer, worldwide. Despite the fact that we are the most capable species we know of within the known universe, too many of our number are still suffering.

Let me be the first to say also that I do think that some cultures are just better than others - personally I think that modern European culture, specifically Northern European culture, is probably one of the most progressive, future-proof models for a human civilization that may be viable in the truly long term that has ever existed. Compared to, say, the oil rich Arab states, to pick an easy target but stating something I just believe is probably just objectively true - absolute monarchy, gender segregation and oppression of women, religious fanaticism, I just don't and cannot see that there is any argument that could be made for these being properties of a truly sustainable and stable civilisation. Honestly I think if Saudi Arabia didn't have the good fortune to find themselves sitting on billions of tons of oil there is not a chance in hell that such a medieval system of government would have survived until the present day.

THAT SAID, to look at these factors and conclude that multiculturalism is just inherently a flawed idea is an insane conclusion. You want to segregate billions of your fellow humans into cultures that ultimately promote suffering, whether by accident or design? If you believe that one or another culture is in some ways (not all ways!) just better than another, then you have a moral imperative to allow other humans to experience that culture, to grow up in that culture, so that we might all be able to take the best parts of every culture in the world and improve together. White Europeans are not being genocided, that's just absurd. But what you indirectly advocate is some kind of passive, slow genocide of everyone else in the world who didn't have the good fortune to be born in a developed nation.

The less barriers there are to learning and to people living the life they want to live rather than the life that society tells them they should live, the more smart, passionate people we will get working in important fields like science, medicine, human psychology, sociology... and the more we can turn the harsh spotlight of critical rational analysis upon every aspect of our human society, the more we will find ways to build a better world FOR EVERYONE. Culture and race are irrelevant distractions in the face of what I believe should be the higher goal for every human alive. Divisive ideas that promote, separation, isolation, preservation of cherry picked vague notions of "cultural heritage" over working towards a bright future where the best parts of EVERY CULTURE are accessible to EVERY HUMAN ALIVE, are a yielding to our basic animal instincts to fear the other, and to compete, endlessly, even with our own kind, for personal, ultimately selfish gain. These animal tendencies lead to short sighted and small minded objectives based on fear of change. If we cannot collectively overcome these parts of ourselves then we are ultimately doomed, but whatever will be will be.
 
The only reason the question got the answer it did is because people are still feeling worse off than the dark days of the GFC. A decade plus ago. The great depression didn't last this long.
If folk were still feeling better off then Farage would still be a fringe politician.
If central government hadn't been so London focused and tried to see all the UK benefit then maybe it would've been different answer.
Alas here we are and personally I'm terrified with whats to come
 
This was originally posted by a reader of The Register forums (there is a link at that end to the article on which it is a comment) and gives a taste of the importance of there not being a border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland:
Today, a baker in Armagh can buy flour from a miller in Armagh or a miller in Dundalk and sell the bread he makes in Dublin or Belfast. No duties, no tariffs, no paperwork. By the end of next month, in a no-deal Brexit, or any deal not involving custom-union membership, the same baker will have to go through the same paperwork to import flour from Dundalk as he would to import it from Brazil. And exporting bread to Dublin would require more paper work then exporting it to China (and probably take longer!) because the EU would have to be satisfied that it (and everything in it, and every stage of its handling and processing) met all EU standards and conditions, *and* that it could not be obtained elsewhere within the EU.

I really do not see how a social media app is going to help with that.
Now multiply that by the number of small businesses in all the border towns, who depend for their livelihood upon seamless movement of goods between NI and RoI as though they were the same country, or at least the same Customs territory.

Also on a "Customs" theme, it's EU law that allows you to transport goods such as tobacco, alcohol, designer clothes, perfume &c. freely within member states with no further duties payable once all duties had been paid to the relevant authorities in the country of first sale. There is no "duty free" within the EU -- all Customs duties have been fully paid-up when the goods were purchased, and nothing else becomes due unless / until they are subsequently sold. As a non-member of the EU, this won't apply to a post-Brexit UK, and the old limits will come back into force. I think they were something like 200 cigarettes, one pouch of pipe or rolling tobacco or 5 cigars; one case of beer; and three bottles of wine, or two bottles of wine and one of spirits -- all unopened. I could be mistaken about the exact figures; it was all in the Bad Old Days. But the point of the regulations was to protect British industry from cheap imports, and you can bet they will be enforced if it means more money for the Government.
 
Holy cow, I just noticed Leavers and Remainers having a discussion and not losing their shit at each other. Well done team EADD lol!

Actually, maybe you've proven that different folks from different backgrounds and places can all work together, even when they disagree? ;-)
 
I don't & have never lived in the UK. But I'm honestly shocked by the majority sentiment expressed here. I think the EU has always been a terrible idea. And I absolutely do not believe in multiculturalism. I am very pessimistic about the future of the West overall due to the rapidly changing demographics (though we've all been on a very bad path since WW2 here in Europe, to varying degrees).

I value true diversity aka segregation of ethnic groups so that we retain our unique evolutionary heritages & culture. Instead, we are paying to be genocided - by we I mean White Europeans - due to our traitor leaders. Germany has changed SO radically since I moved here in 2012 & I live in a rural area in a village & almost never go out, but it's just SO obvious.


Agreed. Good post
 
I don't & have never lived in the UK. But I'm honestly shocked by the majority sentiment expressed here. I think the EU has always been a terrible idea. And I absolutely do not believe in multiculturalism.
Culture is a social construct. It's not fixed, but continuously redefining itself. We borrow things from other cultures, other cultures borrow things from us and everybody's culture ends up enriched.
I am very pessimistic about the future of the West overall due to the rapidly changing demographics (though we've all been on a very bad path since WW2 here in Europe, to varying degrees).
This hardly surprises me. You consider any change a threat to your sheltered existence.
I value true diversity aka segregation of ethnic groups so that we retain our unique evolutionary heritages & culture.
Separate development, you mean? Apartheid?
Instead, we are paying to be genocided - by we I mean White Europeans - due to our traitor leaders. Germany has changed SO radically since I moved here in 2012 & I live in a rural area in a village & almost never go out, but it's just SO obvious.
Absit omen you should ever have to learn anything about other people who look different from you, talk differently than you and you think smell different from you -- but once you scratch the surface, they're actually just like you.
 
I'm definitely in the leave camp.

Most European countries are stagnating. An increase in the available job market has left wages stagnating, while living costs have increased - especially housing.

Not many have talked about the effect the Lisbon treaty will have too. Soon countries will lose their veto power and all countries will be forced to adopt the Euro.
 
All I can say is that the 'new IRA' don't need much of an excuse to start their antics up again - as evidenced by the recent car bomb incident in Derry. Is this really what we want??
 
All I can say is that the 'new IRA' don't need much of an excuse to start their antics up again - as evidenced by the recent car bomb incident in Derry. Is this really what we want??

The paramilitaries haven't gone away they've been quietly knocking each other off for years. The "new ira" would start up again for case of Guinness and 200 Bensons and the "loyalists" less than that. That's what 2 years of the DUP fucking it all up will do. Yes Brexit will shaft NI well and truly.
 
As to Ireland give it them back, it is that simple. It was never English anyway.

This hardly surprises me. You consider any change a threat to your sheltered existence.

You can talk BecomingJulie, you really are something I sadly cannot say on here or I'll be banned.
 
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