• H&R Moderators: VerbalTruist | cdin | Lil'LinaptkSix

Avocadopear

Just saying, think it’s really a secret? Maybe the signs are all there but no one wants to say anything. People who really know you should notice a difference, even subtle ones. I could always tell a difference in my ex when he used loritabs. my dad could tell when I was using. I would laugh him off though. Never admitted it. i Thought I was keeping that secret for a decade.
You might be surprised if you confine in your partner. It helps to have support. Hopefully you can work together through it. So hard to discern who will be supportive and who will judge. I feel for you, been there. Was so worried I could not be my perky, energetic self if I didn’t use. However, you will get energy back. Empathy. And will see things a bit clearer.
You are doing the right thing trying to come off. Ecspecially for the lil ones. You may not have that high energy, but you will enjoy them more. Best of luck to you.
 
You could be right Debbie that people might already know as I?m really in quite a state, drenched in cold sweat through the night, face dripping with sweat when I do the smallest physical activity When I wake in the morning I feel like I?m dying and can barely move until I?ve taken some pills. I sometimes wonder how I managed to spiral so out of control. I?m also drinking too much on a daily basis which I?m going to mention at my appointment with the drugs worker. I feel like I?m going to need a lot of help but I?m willing to try anything they suggest, AA or NA meetings seem to work for some people so if they suggest I do that then. Does anyone here attend meetings, can anyone tell me a bit about them and what happens etc? Just 2 days to go until my appointment I?m praying I can be helped to quit and lead a sober life.
 
I go to NA. The vibe between NA and AA is different- I went to both in rehab but NA is the one for me, I was a poly drug addict not just an alcoholic and they frown on you mentioning other substances in AA. Also NA takes themselves a bit less seriously IME. But, the vibe will differ between groups. If you try one meeting and don't like it don't let that put you off. Try a different one.

Its not for everyone but I think NA has saved my life. But, I couldn't get clean in the rooms, I couldn't even try to get clean in the rooms, I needed rehab. I still find it disheartening when they say 'recovery is possible in these rooms' and i know some people have recovered just in NA and it makes me wonder why I couldn't. If you can't don't let that put you off. I couldn't have stayed clean without it after rehab.

At the meetings they start with some readings, these are the same between all meetings. They will then have either a further reading, a main share, or jump straight into general sharing, which is where each member who wants to speaks uninterrupted in turn. They then close with more readings and the serenity prayer, which will feel weird as fuck cos you gotta hold hands with strangers. It really is NOT a religious programme. You will get a list of phone numbers from people with some clean time. They will suggest that you do 4 things: meetings, service, sponsorship, steps. Together these form a multifaceted approach towards treatment of the underlying causes of addiction, isolation, that 'hole in the soul.'

if you have any more questions feel free to ask.

Good luck with the cdt, I hope you have a nice key worker who you feel you can build a rapport with. They will probably offer you groups, signpost you to resources for any other needs, and maintenance therapy, which would stop you being so sick all the time, and if you really can't taper off the dfs then may well be a good idea to stabilise you so you can get your life back.

Let us know how it goes anyway.
 
Thank you chin up that?s really helpful info about the meetings. I?m not religious which has put me off before (I?ve looked into as before as I?ve always had a bit of a drinking problem) but the drugs are far more serious as they?re making me seriously ill. I know it?s helped so many people from what I?ve heard through research so really hoping it will help me too.
Congratulation on you getting clean. Can I ask how long you?ve been clean for?
Also can I ask what is maintenance therapy and what do you mean by stabilise?
Thank you :) xx
 
by god they mean any sort of higher power- something outside yourself. the theory is that you and your ideas got you into this mess. you and your ideas have failed to get you out of it, so you need to look to something else to get some ideas about what to do. i'm a committed atheist, i'm not sure what my higher power is, it doesn't matter.

thanks!! i'll have been clean 5 months this saturday, first 2 months was in rehab.

maintenance therapy is a prescription opiate so you won't get sick and can then taper under medical supervision. stabilise just means get to a point where your use is stable and you're not ill. maintenance is usually methadone or subutex, which are long acting, so you only need one dose a day and i've found they both chill me out (though i've never used them for maintenance, just when i couldn't get anything else), and if you're honest to the prescriber about the extent of your use you will not be ill, except at the start of subutex, as you have to be in withdrawal prior to starting it. if the prescriber is concerned that you might use on top they may put you on a high enough dose of subutex to make you ill if you use other opiates on top. methadone won't ever make you sick if you use on top but if the dose is high enough it'll blunt the effects of other opiates, its also an utter bitch to get off but since going to NA i've met people who have used methadone successfully to get off illegal opiates. the sucky thing is you have to do daily pickup from the pharmacy and most places chuck you off your script if you miss 3 days in a row.

it is important to get psychological help because there is a reason you are using drugs and if you don't work out why, it'll be harder to stay stopped once you do.

be as honest with the drugs services as possible. if they're anything like mine up in warrington then the people are hugely experienced and really want to help, so let them!!!
 
Just a quick update, my appointment with the drugs worker was cancelled and delayed for a week so is now this Friday. Very frustrating for me as I?m pinning all my hopes on this outside help as I?m not strong enough to do it alone and I feel that every week that goes by I am becoming more tolerant to the DHCs and my addiction is getting worse. But the appointment being delayed is out of my control so I just have to wait until Friday.
 
So I had another phonecall from the support worker to say she needs to cancel as she?s having an operation. And she arranged me a drop in appointment to see someone else but nothing was actually booked. I?m crying, I thought I might be ok but now everything?s looking shit. What am I going to do?! ?
 
i’m really sorry to hear that. not a good start.

i can think of 3 ways you can get help tomorrow- if you’re not in the middle of nowhere, there will likely be several NA meetings near you, go to one, explain your situation. You will get a sympathetic ear and advice from people familiar with the services in your area.

emergency GP appointment- puts you at the mercy of your GP, who will not be an expect on addiction, but there’s a chance you’ll get something useful out of it. be honest about your use and tell them what’s happened with the drugs service.

walk-in center- i have no idea how they’d deal with something like this. i’ve only used them when i obviously needed antibiotics urgently.

it may also be worth going to your drug service in person and explaining what’s happened.

if you want to, feel free to PM me, i could give you my number if you wanted to talk.

don't give up on yourself. this is a shitty start but you're trying to do the right thing. that's really brave. don't let this put you off.

--------------

the more i think about it, NA or going to the drugs services in person seem like the best option. Purely because you're at the mercy of some none experts sympathy otherwise and I think another blow right now would be damaging. I've had loads of emergency doctors appointments about mental health stuff and they've been sympathetic but ultimately just thrown drugs at me and referred me to group therapy, not a chance of any specialist 1 to 1 help since austerity.

If you're scared to attend an NA meeting, phone the national helpline, they can get someone in your area to get in touch with you. If you do go to a meeting, get there early because they start promptly and make time to stay and chat afterwards so that hopefully someone can give you some pointers. Don't phone the Samaritans, they won't talk to people under the influence
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Thanks so much for your advice and support chinup. I?ve been on the phone to the substance abuse place and spoke to the guy who I met for my initial assessment he was very helpful and asked how I?m doing etc (unlike the other people who work there who were extremely unhelpful and unfriendly) he made sure my appointment for Friday is going ahead and that it?s not just a drop in. It?s been a shambles with the lady I was originally assigned to as the first cancelled appointment she left me 1 voicemail, didn?t follow up to check I?d got the message, left no phone number to get back to her on. I left several messages with the centre since for her to get back to me but she never did until the next cancelled appointment so maybe it?s for the best that I?ve got someone else to meet now. I had to take half a day off work last Friday as it was a very last minute cancellation (I only work 1 day a week on a Friday) so now I need to think of another excuse, last time I said I had a doctors appointment for back ache. Any ideas where I can say I?m going this time as my appointment is at 11am so I?ll need to leave work and go back after the appointment. I?m definately up for going to NA meetings but is tricky with childcare and the fact no one actually knows about this. Xx
 
Chinup I was just re reading the replies to this thread and the service I?ve been referred to is also CGL the same as you. X
 
some NA meetings are child friendly, it will say on the website, or you can phone the helpline and they'll help you find out.

just say you need a follow up appointment after your last one. it sounds like that lady is a bit shit. i really hope you get someone better as your key worker cos they have a lot of input into your care. if she turns out to be your key worker request another one. i really hope it improves once you're properly through the induction bit.

everyone up here says CGL are a lot lot better than the previous providers. and i'm pleasantly surprised cos my ex found the drugs services in Leeds, though this is a long while back, actively unhelpful- they just told him to take a long time off heroin before they'd do anything. up here they've helped people with benefits, housing, liaised with their GPs, basically anything at all to reduce external stress, in addition to a full time program of groups, one to ones, signposting, and invite only group programmes- i'm on a 3 month one and cos you have the same group all the way through, you work with the other people and support each other. All the staff I've interacted with are very knowledgeable. They support a range of treatment modalities, i'm doing mindfulness based and CBT based but they also offer SMART, have women's only groups, opiate users groups, etc.

i am surprised cos i registered with my key worker within a week of leaving rehab- though my parents arranged it while i was in there so i wasn't left straight out of rehab with no support.

i also think its important you confide in other people around you. i know its fucking horrible. chances are they already know. i thought i'd hidden my addiction really well, told my friends i was going to an inpatient mental health clinic, and all their letters said 'i hope your rehab works,' they'd known for years. it may be hard at first but if they understand you're telling them because you want to get better, i'm sure they'll come round. you really need a support network. that's also why NA is great, it gives you one.
 
Thanks chin up for your super helpful replies as always. I appreciate it. I'm going to need to tell the husband at some point soon but I'm such a coward it seems, I've come close to telling him a few times but as you and others have said he possibly already knows. I've told him the bed being drenched in sweat each night is because I'm drinking too much (which is true - I do have a drinking problem as well) but I can't seem to find the courage to tell him about the real problem the dihydrocodeine.
However, today has been a really good day! I got to have my appointment with a different worker. (turns out the worker who i was assigned to that I've never met is off for 6 weeks due to a foot operation which she failed to tell me when she cancelled my last 2 appointments) but the lady I saw today was great. She was helpful, has experience as she is 21 years clean. She was really nice to me and accommodating and has said she'll see me whilst the other lady is off. She told me about the different options of how I'm going to be able to quit and get clean she was straighforward and honest. If I get the choice I would like to go for opiate replacement treatment. She booked me in for a doctors appointment this wednesday coming so thank goodness things seem to be happening with my recovery! Ans she said I can drop in and see her as well to get something set up for me to see her. I've just phoned the NA helpline and I'm looking into meetings. What's great is that no one is judging as everyone I've dealt with so far seems to have experience of drug addiction so they understand what it's like.
 
yes!!! so so glad it went well!! i'm really pleased you've finally got the ball rolling. it must be a relief. i'm glad the lady was good too it makes such a difference. i hope the doctor is good too, if its booked through them he'll know what he is doing, which is another major plus.

ha i used to lie to my ex about night sweats being alcohol related. i really hope you get the courage to talk to him about it because his support would help you so much, and he is probably very worried about you, even 'just' the alcohol, so he will be happy you're getting help. i've nearly destroyed the relationship with the man i should have (still hope to) married. i dumped him for heroin and benzos, then he moved from australia for us to get back together and ended up buying crack cos the only way i'd spend time with him was if we smoked together.
 
Ah it sounds like he really cares for you if he?s wanting to do whatever to make you happy even though that?s in the past now do you think there?s hope for you both? I hope you can make it work even just from what you?ve said it sounds like he loves you. Is he addicted to drugs? Without knowing you I think you?d be best with somebody who doesn?t have a drug problem themself. I?m thankful that my hubby doesn?t have an alcohol or drug problem as i?d find that so hard to be around whilst trying to quit. He does smoke a lot of weed but I can take or leave that as weed doesn?t really bother me at all I don?t really like how it makes me feel on its own.

How does subutex feel? Will it make me better? I have just ordered 200 dHC pills as I?m running out but I?m regretting ordering so many in case the doctor puts me straight onto subutex as I guess I?ll have to get rid of the pills in order to start recovery. I can?t keep spending this kind of money it?s crazy.
 
So I had another phonecall from the support worker to say she needs to cancel as she?s having an operation. And she arranged me a drop in appointment to see someone else but nothing was actually booked. I?m crying, I thought I might be ok but now everything?s looking shit. What am I going to do?! ��

Stay strong! Talk to us. What’s going on?
 
Ah it sounds like he really cares for you if he?s wanting to do whatever to make you happy even though that?s in the past now do you think there?s hope for you both? I hope you can make it work even just from what you?ve said it sounds like he loves you. Is he addicted to drugs? Without knowing you I think you?d be best with somebody who doesn?t have a drug problem themself. I?m thankful that my hubby doesn?t have an alcohol or drug problem as i?d find that so hard to be around whilst trying to quit. He does smoke a lot of weed but I can take or leave that as weed doesn?t really bother me at all I don?t really like how it makes me feel on its own.

How does subutex feel? Will it make me better? I have just ordered 200 dHC pills as I?m running out but I?m regretting ordering so many in case the doctor puts me straight onto subutex as I guess I?ll have to get rid of the pills in order to start recovery. I can?t keep spending this kind of money it?s crazy.

If you abstain from opiates and are in full on withdrawal sub will work. Might be worth a try.

Did you tell your husband?
 
Still not told the hubs but I?ve told him I?ve got a serious alcohol problem and that I want to quit and plan to attend meetings etc so he does know half the story just not the full truth.
I?m really trying to understand how it all works woth the opiate replacements as I?ve been reading online that people trade 1 addiction for another and subutex is worse to come off from what I?ve read. Would I be able to take it in place of the DHC?s for just a couple of weeks to stop the codeine withdrawal then stop taking it completely before I get dependant on subutex does it work like that? I just want to be completely drug free but i can?t do it cold turkey I?m just not tough enough for that and the drug worker was honest about what I?d experience if I was to go cold turkey. It sounds horrific and I?ve never been through it as I?ve always been able to get more pills. Or I know the other option is methadone. What?s the difference between the 2 and why would the doctor choose to give 1 over the other?
 
i'm reading gabor mate's book the realm of the hungry ghosts, literally this morning i read his saying that being honest with people around you is beneficial to recovery, it gives your addiction less places to hide. i'm glad you've told him about the alcohol, i hope he's being supportive.

subutex is longer acting, which makes the withdrawal longer if you cold turkey rather than taper. how bad withdrawal is depends on the length of you habit (entire, not when you moved onto ORT) and how much you were taking. to avoid getting sick you will need a supervised taper, and you will need to stick to it. i have never done ORT cos i knew loads of people on methadone who used heroin on top. i've also never successfully tapered cos tapering off street heroin just isn't really possible, i couldn't control my use and even if i could, i didn't know the purity and it varied day to day. i've never successfully cold turkeyed either, got to day 3 over 20 times, got to the end 5 times, and always always taken some other opiate to alleviate the withdrawals, which drew it out.

subutex will stop you feeling ill all the time, and will give you freedom in that sense. in another sense, it will take away your freedom, you will very likely be on daily pickup, and have to take your dose in front of a pharmacist, at least initially. as it is an opiate, it will give you some of the feelings you get from DHC, subbies are used recreationally for that reason. if you're prescribed over 8mg (i think), then its opioid antagonist properties will come out, and you'll get sick if you use on top. this is also why its important to be in withdrawal when you start it, otherwise you will precipitate withdrawals when you start the subutex. my ex tried that and it was not a pretty sight.

its a tricky one, but the fact is, you've found that you can't taper on your own (marc lewis has written about willpower doesn't work for addiction in his book on called the biology of desire, you're not weak, its disfunction in the brain), so you need a supervised taper. you're most likely to be offer methadone or subbies. the methadone withdrawal can take over a month, subutex withdrawal is quicker, but will vary depending on your dose. the withdrawal is longer than DHC or heroin because they are longer acting, which they have to be for you to not get sick between daily doses. in the week before rehab, i was supposed to be detoxing at my parents, but ended up doing 3 days off then using 1 20 bag of gear followed by 4x4mg subutex, which is not much at all, but was enough for me to still be waking up sweating well into my 2nd week of rehab.

i used to be very prejudiced against ORT but since coming into recovery i've met people who it actually works for, the people I knew on it in my using had no intention of getting clean. unfortunately UK drugs policy is still more based on keeping daily mail readers happy then science. the daily pickup and consuming in front of the pharmacist is so people don't sell their scripts, but all the subbies i've ever bought were from people acquiring them in this manner. so, unfortunately, they tar the system and you have to abide its draconian rules as a result.

getting you off the DHCs but not sick will remove an immediate stress, and hopefully get you getting the psychological help you need before you come off opiates fully. tapering will not get you well on its own. i've realised that i simply couldn't get off heroin because there's more to stopping taking drugs than stopping taking drugs. drugs are doing something for us very well to get such a hold, and what that is for you and learning how you can get it elsewhere requires therapy.
 
also no, my not boyfriend/whatever i call him isn’t an addict. we bonded in 6th form over a shared love of punk rock and weed. we both stopped smoking weed about 10 years later, me cos i liked heroin so much better, him cos he actually stopped smoking weed. we’ll never stop the punk rock, in fact we started making some together yesterday for the first time ever. he drinks too much, but doesn’t really get drunk. the only times his drug use has ever caused him issues are when i’ve comprehensively destroyed him. i’m lucky he’s still there. glad your hubby doesn't use!
 
Top