• TDS Moderators: AlphaMethylPhenyl | Eligiu | deficiT

Mental Health Not Obsolete: Continuing Roles for TCAs and MAOIs

The dietary constraints have been overhyped, but people have died of strokes on MAOIs. The 6mg EMSAM essentially requires no diet, more so for the 9mg and 12mg versions. But as told EMSAM is less effective than Parnate. I was a full-out insomniac on EMSAM. Not so on Parnate. Mileage varies, of course.

TCA's have lots of peripheral effects. This is from wikipedia, but generally shows how diverse their mechanisms can be:

The mechanisms of imipramine's actions include, but are not limited to, effects on:

Serotonin: very strong reuptake inhibition.

Norepinephrine: strong reuptake inhibition. Desipramine has more affinity to norepinephrine transporter than imipramine.

Dopamine: imipramine blocks D2 receptors.[28] Imipramine, and its metabolite desipramine, have no appreciable affinity for the dopamine transporter (Ki = 8,500 and >10,000 nM, respectively).[29]

Acetylcholine: imipramine is an anticholinergic, specifically an antagonist of the muscarinic acetylcholine receptors. Thus, it is prescribed with caution to the elderly and with extreme caution to those with psychosis, as the general brain activity enhancement in combination with the "dementing" effects of anticholinergics increases the potential of imipramine to cause hallucinations, confusion and delirium in this population.

Epinephrine: imipramine antagonizes adrenergic receptors, thus sometimes causing orthostatic hypotension.

Sigma receptor: activity on sigma receptors is present, but it is very weak (Ki = 520 nM) and it is about half that of amitriptyline (Ki = 300 nM).[citation needed]
Histamine: imipramine is an antagonist of the histamine H1 receptors.

BDNF: BDNF is implicated in neurogenesis in the hippocampus, and studies suggest that depressed patients have decreased levels of BDNF and reduced hippocampal neurogenesis. It is not clear how neurogenesis restores mood, as ablation of hippocampal neurogenesis in murine models do not show anxiety related or depression related behaviours.

Chronic imipramine administration results in increased histone acetylation (which is associated with transcriptional activation and decondensed chromatin) at the hippocampal BDNF promotor, and also reduced expression of hippocampal HDAC5.[30][31]
 
What is your take on Clomipramine?

The dietary constraints have been overhyped, but people have died of strokes on MAOIs. The 6mg EMSAM essentially requires no diet, more so for the 9mg and 12mg versions. But as told EMSAM is less effective than Parnate. I was a full-out insomniac on EMSAM. Not so on Parnate. Mileage varies, of course.

TCA's have lots of peripheral effects. This is from wikipedia, but generally shows how diverse their mechanisms can be:

The mechanisms of imipramine's actions include, but are not limited to, effects on:
 
Well I'm not a real mental health certified worker in the field so I can't really recommend anything, just can say a few things regarding how it apparently works.

Like other SNRIs, is indicated for some anxiety disorders.

Probably more incidence of side effects than effexor/duloxetine though because of its many mechanisms. But as a tricyclic, can be dangerous.

It's really difficult to say much because its metabolite is bioactive. more so in not knowing how much the metabolite affects the overall effect.

Such a smattering of other receptors it hits...have you tried first-line treatments? Just because they're first, doesn't mean they don't work.
 
Stroke-like symptoms on MAOI’s are terrifying. I would avoid unless your depression is severe or treatment resistant.

MAOI’s are amazing for the people who really need them. Please do a lot of research about your diagnosis, the effects, side effects, interactions, and realize it is risky to use MAOI’s.

TCA’s are highly undesirable to me. Terrible effects. Terrible withdrawal like feelings from one pill. I can’t imagine TCA’s do much good for anyone.
 
Hey Hanse!

That's an interesting article. TCA amitriptyline, is prescribed to me. 25mg at bedtime. It helps me sleep most of the time.

I find it helps if I'm feeling particularly anxious and restless too. I take Neurontin 800mg 4x/day. It definitely helps me alot w anxiety. But some days, maybe I'm going through a manic period (Bipolar II), I still struggle w anxiety and being restless. I take a couple Amitriptyline (Elavil) It seems to calm me down some.

I'm going to ask my Dr if it's possible to prescribe them to take during the day if needed.

She prescribed vistoril for anxiety. It didn't see to help at first. I told my Dr not to bother prescribing them anymore. I tried taking them again last week. I found they do help with anxiety and restlessness. ?. Weird. I'm going to have them re-started.

Something I just remembered about amitriptyline - I was prescribed them in the past in a higher milligram. I think 100mg tablets (Kind of big, red, round tablets), some nights I would take 500mgs. Crazy, I know. That was prior to being Dx'd with Bipolar II, and on 120mgs of methadone a day.

I was never stable on methadone due to aborrently metabolizing it, and needing to split dose. Amitriptyline helped alot with that. I don't know if it potentiated methadone or what, but it helped me feel stable.

That's not the weird part though. The weird part is I would black out on them at high doses, but was AWARE I was blacked out. I was completely unable to control my impulses, even though I knew what I was doing or saying was crazy.

One of the examples I can think of is I was frying grape jelly in vegetable oil. Omg. I knew it was insane but couldn't stop myself. Really bizarre.

I've never felt any type of withdrawal from amitriptyline. Thank God.
 
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