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Preparing to detox from Suboxone - again...

N

NIGHTMARES37

Greenlighter
Joined
Dec 27, 2018
Messages
17
Hello, I'm new here - long time listener, first time caller - I've been seasoned with a wide spectrum of drugs for most of my life, sometimes drugs have been helpful and beneficial; sometimes they've brought me to my knees with devastating suffering. Been on Suboxone for 7 months. I once was on it for four years, went and endured an Ibogaine treatment and was clean-ish for a few years. Got deeply involved with Ibogaine, kind of fell apart after putting all my energy into detoxing others with Ibogaine, being around all that suffering and dope - I started using again. Last time I detoxed from suboxone was about two years ago, I stopped taking it for five days and then went to my first silent, 10 day Vipassana meditation retreat, that was brutal, I finally slept on the 8th night after having a bit of an emotional break down - turns out silent self reflection is quite powerful and painful. I'm down to 3ish mg per day, plan on getting to 1ish mg by January 11th, then jump off and endure some suffering. I've got a script for clonidine, clonezapam, tizanidine and have access to cannabis, kratom, amino acids etc. I've removed myself from the city where drugs were way to easy to come by, once I begin the detox January 11th, I'll have two weeks till the lease is up, January 25th and will up and move somewhere new with my partner. Why am I stopping suboxone? I suppose I want to be present for life emotionally and not be tied down to drugs. Suboxone comes with side effects, I'm just done. I've been clean a few times before. I've spun myself out so hard, I'm pretty much fortunate to be alive. I've got the classic "I didn't have a Dad and my self esteem is all fucked up" situation but have gotten over a lot of that. I've done quite a bit of "shadow work" regarding my lack of emotional maturity and have identified a lot of the demons that live with me - I've endured an assault of powerful psychedelics pre and post opiate addiction. I think the raw, crystal lsd when I was a kid did a bit of damage. All the kids I grew up with that got assaulted with mass dose lsd post dead-tour all got strung out and fucked off, a lot are dead, gratefully. I watched a lot of people die. I most likely have ptsd from being tackled on the street by the DEA and all kinds of other fucked up things - the Requiem for a Dream style surgery I had on my arm from shooting dope. I'm just ready to move on. So I don't know, I guess I'm just putting it out there, I'm in a rural area and pretty alone, which is good, but communication helps. So I'll be around and I guess will just be trying to get a little support and also kind of document my detox, I like being helpful to others when I'm doing well too. Alright, peace.
 
I've heard from a doctor that it's reportedly easier to detox from buprenorphine alone(Subutex) rather than buprenorphine and naloxone(suboxone). I'd stay away from cannabis and kratom as much as possible and use the other medications for as short of a time as possible as well. Cannabis and kratom are both addictive and although they are the lesser of evils, it's pretty easy to just replace one habit with another. Also, kratom has opioid like withdrawal. The other medications you mention aren't addictive but could be said to be habit-forming as they do cause physical dependence and can require tapering to get off of.

A silent retreat while going through opioid withdrawals seems like torture if you ask me. Being alone with those thoughts and not having anyone to work through them with or distract you from them doesn't seem very beneficial. I'm sure a certain amount of solitude is necessary, but there is a ton of evidence to show that group therapy is one of the most beneficial forms of therapy for addiction. A lot of the negative symptoms like anxiety, negative thoughts, negative self-talk, and depression are extremely difficult if not impossible to work out by yourself. Sometimes just having someone who can relate to your situation and can share some laughs with you can make a world of difference. Being able to not only talk about shame, but also laugh and make jokes about it is extremely freeing, and I don't really see how you could work through things like social shame completely on your own.

The biggest help for me has been having others around me to help "correct" my thinking. It's the whole "we are our own biggest critic" type of thing. It's so easy to beat yourself up and talk to yourself in ways you would probably never treat another human let alone someone you care about. At least it is for me. Everyone is different though, so my biggest struggle might not be yours. Either way, it's best not to rely on one tool.. you want to have a bunch of tools in your bag. Meditation, support group, counseling, friends, hobbies, and so on.

Keep us updated on what's happening. Feel free to use this thread as your journal/blog or as a place to vent or ask for advice or help. I usually check in daily, and others will probably chime in as well.
 
I agree about the kratom, it binds to delta and mu opioid receptors so it IS an opioid, even though the molecules themselves are tryptamines. Kratom can be used to help step off, but it's risky, and must be used as sparingly as possible for the shortest time possible and in my experience it does make it take longer to come off. And it's really easy to end up trading one addiction for another. As for marijuana, in my opinion it depends on whether marijuana is addictive for you. For me, it's not, I feel great when I stop using it no matter how long I've been using it, and I can have it without using it for long periods of time if I don't feel like it. For me, marijuana is very helpful for getting through withdrawal, both because it's relaxing, and because it gives me that "something" I'm desperately craving. I classify it as a comfort med. BUT, for some people marijuana is not so benign. You know whether it is for you or not.
 
I have seen great outcomes from the Robert_325 plan on Drugs.com. If you hit a wall, it may help. It's very gradual.

ETA: I would have lost my mind on a silent retreat. OMG. The thoughts are so awful. The need for comfort is so high.
 
Alright, 24 hours into the detox. Woke up from horrific drug dreams, the drugs don't only consume my waking hours but dreams. In the dream it's always a twilight - not quite day or nite - I'm at the Seattle Housing Authority building off Denny, Larry's studio has the safe with a brick of tar, tupperware of ice and sheets of african benzos, I just can't quite get to it... Yeah krater sucks, I have no desire to go to the shitty smoke shop to have some stupid kid with a vape pen school me on kratom. Fucken drugs. I was just crying, that's a good sign, haven't cried since being on subs. I'm never fucking going back to an AA meeting. I just have to suffer. I'm listening to the Mac Miller Faces mix, so good but so sad. Anybody have good detox music suggestions? I'll be crying in the corner with a juice box. peace
 
The 10 days of vigilant silence was great for my self discipline, one of the hardest things I've ever endured. I wasn't just thinking about poor me being dopesick, I just watched my breath. It hurt, but it felt good. I've also blasted myself with psychedelics that have an affect on me permanently - it has it's pros and cons...
 
Krater just makes me a little angry and so do it's viscous advocates - "So bro, it's a magic natural leaf that's kind of like an opiate but its just weak and still makes you sick and no side effects bro." Then the kratom baller at the smoke shop blowing clouds of vape smoke like he's some kind of cartel boss.
 
Holy shit this is fucking brutal. Doesn't even start to get real until like the 8th day. Im on day 10. Every cell is screaming. Counting hours, days. This is survival, not living. I'll make it. fuck
 
I listened to this song on repeat a lot while going through benzo wd's recently. I really liked listening to gritty blues songs while I was in rehab, and then more melodic music like neo-soul to help remind myself of the beauty in the world. Really, aside from all the pain and discomfort, it can be a really surreal and beautiful time in your life. Like an epiphany of clear thoughts that penetrate years of clouded and muddled thinking. Like the first warm sunny day after years of rain and storms. I'd encourage you to continue to embrace those feelings, even if they seem unjustified and out of place.

I think there is a certain amount of comfort in being in survival situations. It's simple, at least conceptually, and allows the animal in me to really come out. There's no being overly aggressive when you are fighting for survival, no measures to extreme. Even when I was in jail this last time things just felt simpler and oddly easier.

Have you been able to get a halfway decent night of sleep yet? Those dreams come back with a vengeance lol.
 
I'm doing quite a bit better now, took some immodium, amino acids, pot, food and a walk. Day ten now, think it was the final death rattle this morning. Now I just woke up to this intense full moon, I'll take it as symbolic. Yeah, I hear you, there is almost something comforting in the familiarity of opiate withdrawal. And yes, I love Mac Miller and have been listening to a lot of his stuff, he understood the struggle. RIP Alright, I think I'm gonna be alright.
Mafioso said:
I listened to this song on repeat a lot while going through benzo wd's recently. I really liked listening to gritty blues songs while I was in rehab, and then more melodic music like neo-soul to help remind myself of the beauty in the world. Really, aside from all the pain and discomfort, it can be a really surreal and beautiful time in your life. Like an epiphany of clear thoughts that penetrate years of clouded and muddled thinking. Like the first warm sunny day after years of rain and storms. I'd encourage you to continue to embrace those feelings, even if they seem unjustified and out of place.

I think there is a certain amount of comfort in being in survival situations. It's simple, at least conceptually, and allows the animal in me to really come out. There's no being overly aggressive when you are fighting for survival, no measures to extreme. Even when I was in jail this last time things just felt simpler and oddly easier.

Have you been able to get a halfway decent night of sleep yet? Those dreams come back with a vengeance lol.
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